Originally posted by Janesh.J View Post

Hi Mohan,

Hope you are enjoying the duke. I am having the duke since april '12. I had issues of coolant leak, which i rectified myself , Other than that, no issues. ECU was flashed even though i had no issues of stalling. Have done around 3.6K till date. I dont rip and hence feel that bike smoother than other dukes.

It seems you are a startrek fan from your profile picture.

Hello there Janesh,

Yes my bike is still running great no problems, hope it stays that way. I guess the trick in keeping
the bike in 'fighting-fit' condition is not to abuse it too much and service it at the recommended
freqency, besides using the recommended fuel. If something still happens, then what......oh well,
just blame it on 'Murphy's Law' and move on.

I used to watch Startrek when it was running, not a fanatical fan or anything, just liked the show is all.
To conclude with the Startrek theme allow me to say 'Live long and prosper' fellow rider.

The problem with K&N is that they allow more dirt through when *clean*, even when properly oiled, compared to a clean paper filter. So you get a tiny bit more airflow compared to an ordinary paper filter (though on a single-cylinder bike like the Duke, the difference would be negligible), but you risk getting more crap into the engine (and even a tiny amount is too much). However, "performance" paper filters, which have more and deeper folds, flow virtually equivalent to a K&N. If you can find them.

An example: I used to own a large 4x4 off-road vehicle. It had a 7.5litre V-8 engine. When I first got it, I reflexively put a K&N air filter on it, because I thought that was just "what to do". However, as I learned more about them, I realized the disadvantages of gauze filters. I used my truck in very dirty/muddy environments, often driving through deep water, and any water that got up to the filter (and it did from time to time) would ruin the filter element, potentially allowing the engine to asiprate water or mud. I did some research, and ended up replacing the filter with one from a diesel truck. Diesels are much more sensitive to air restriction, as well as needing more airflow overall for an equivalent size. While the filters were the same physical size, the filter element on the diesel filter was nearly twice as deep, so I actually got even better performance, and the paper element was much more resistant to occasional splatters of mud, as well as being much cheaper to replace.

K&N got popular because they get used in race vehicles, and due to marketing, people automatically assume that race parts are better. However, what works well on a race vehicle is often downright dangerous on a street vehicle. As I noted earlier, air filters intended for racing use allow the maximum airflow possible while still providing at least some filtration. Racing is a matter of inches and fractions of a second, so every possible advantage, no matter how small, is taken. Since race engines are disassembled regularly, it doesn't matter as much if some dirt gets through now and then, because any damaged parts are immediately replaced. Street engines are rarely disassembled, so there is no way to mitigate any damage caused by contamination. A similar dichotomy can be found with so-called "racing" motorcycle chains. Such chains are significantly lighter than corresponding street-use chains, but are no stronger. They are intended to last one or two races and then get replaced, so they stretch and wear much faster. Their entire purpose is to reduce the weight of the bike. However, most street users assume that "race use" = "stronger than street", so they put race chains on their bikes, and then wonder why they fail so quickly.

You shouldn't be using the engine to move the chain when you oil it. That's horribly unsafe. Leave the engine off, and the bike in neutral. Oil the chain you can get to, lift the bike off the rear wheel slightly, and turn the rear wheel by hand so the next segment of chain is exposed. In addition to being much safer, this method is much less messy, since you can control how much lube you get on the chain, and it won't be thrown all over the place by a fast-moving chain.

Excellent tips as usual Mountain.
I had a hard time convincing some mechanics at the KTM service center that this was a monumentally bad idea.
to their credit, the KTM Vashi (Navi Mumbai) service center guys saw my point in the end.
About the K&N's too, although your views may seem contrary to accepted "street" thinking, I agree wholeheartedly. I am amazed at guys running these pod filters on their bikes, when they know they are in extremely dusty environs, and they have no clue on what they are going to gain/lose, on how the AFR will need to be adjusted etc. None of them are riding on the track, none of them are aware of the cleaning requirements and the possible consequences. The first question I hear is usually about whether I have put in a K&N filter. On the duke, I do not think it is necessary at all, the bike has more than enough grunt for me. A big thank you for the clearly worded information in both your posts. I am taking these permalinks and keeping them handy the next time I need it!

Yes even i think k&ns are bad in terms of air filtration if compared to paper element type. But sure they are good in terms of air flow rate than other filters. So installing k&n would surely increase air flow but consequently more dirt too. So paper filter is what im clinging on to. But the stock one is too dense and the fibres are packed too close and the paper element allows air on a go-no go basis. Other than the fact that filtration is superb in paper filters, the main concern is the airflow rate which is low in these ones than K&Ns. So im thinking if improved aftermarket performance paper air filters are available its great or else ill stock to the stock one. But sure im not going in for K&Ns or other cotton gauze ones. Coz sure they have nice airflow compared to paper or foam ones but i cant compromise with my bikes engine based on the fact that it allows more dirt in too.

motul 3100 is technosynthese which in motul speak means semisynhetic.I've changed from motul 7100 to 3100 and will post a review after some 100 kms

I don't understand what the fuss is all about? Why can't the bike be just moved around for lubing the chain? I do that and works for me.
Also 3100 4T is semisynth as far as I know. THe Motul TM technosynthese mean semi synthetic right ?

yes it is very normal for the RPM to keep fluctuating
during the first start of the bike in the morning , the RPM idles at nearly 1.5K +/- 100
and after sometime comes back to 1100-1300 RPM

@The Mountain

what are u views on FOAM filters ?

Hey frnds check out this link:Fox Riding Jacket cum Body Armour ,Fox Gloves and fox knee guards | eBay combo comes with a riding jacket(including body armour),gloves and knee guard for just rs.1550 .Alpinestar,dsg kTm jackets are way more costlier comes arund 10-20k but lacks body armour.Can I purchase this...whats ur opinion guys I got my duke delivered on 26/12/12 so I think it has come with the new ecu map.will the svc guys change it to d old one if I want?@hunkofgals Around July 2012 u were telling that u r goin to sell your duke?fell in love with the beast again??

no i haven't sold it
i left that university and came back and got admitted in my hometown itself and couldn't resist giving it away , so retained it and still riding it

Foam is probably even worse than a K&N-type. Here's why: Most if not all foam filters rely on the thickness of the foam to provide structure and filtration. They're not going to have much reinforcing other than maybe a plastic cage on the inside to help the filter hold its shape. As a result, you run the risk of the foam getting compressed somewhere, which will affect the element's ability to properly filter. Second, foam filters are essentially sponges, so a foam filter will hold every drop of moisture that hits it. Because of the capillary action of the sponge, as it absorbs moisture that moisture will be distributed evenly throughout the element, including to the inside where the throat of the carb or injector is. As it migrates, that moisture will also carry with it all the dirt and grime trapped in the filter, so very quickly your engine will be inhaling muddy water. Foam was ok back in the 70s when paper elements were primitive and reusable gauze elements didn't exist. They were only used on 2-stroke dirt bikes where they could be removed and washed easily (like every single day). Plus, they had the benefit of not really harming the engine if some of the filter oil happened to get pulled in. They were never used on 4-stroke bikes to my knowledge. As soon as reusable filters like the K&N came along, dirt bikes abandoned foam and never looked back.

As per my experience I would place the three on the priority basis as :

on the basis of airflow rate
1) cotton gauze types
2) foam type
3) paper type

based on filtration:
1) paper type
2) foam
3) cotton types

I made up a air filter for my Esteem. It was a foam type tripple stage. It worked fine but dirt and debris i wiped off the intake snorkel made me switch back from foam types. Although they flowed nicely and rather than cleaning the second and third stage filters i started to replace them to avoid the dirt problem Mountain is saying about. Driving over 1000kms and taking frequent spark plug reading i realised everytjing was fine. But dirt somehow channels in through the foam. I also witnessed oil dampness and deposits in the intake plenum when i wiped it off with a cotton bud.

So paper filters are best in terms of air filtration but lowest in terms of air flow rate. So one who needs air flow and that little extra out of their engines can go for cotton or foam types but who need their engines to be safe from dirt and debris shall opt for paper types.
Testing over the air flow bench the pressure differentials between the three air filters was the most in paper type thus restricting air flow and was least on case of cotton types thus allowing higher flow. The differentials in psi turned out to be 7.5psi for paper filters and least for k&n 6.3psi atleast 14% more airflow than paper ones. Foam type lie in between the k&n and paper types. So if you need the 0.14% better
airflow, than the K&N is hands down the best
filter. But dirt and grime will enter too and that holds me back from using it and sticking to paper types.

thats really informative , thank u

Here is a link to an ISO-conducted test of various paper filters vs the K&N reusable filter. It's too long to post here, and has lots of graphs. However, it does clearly show the differences: K&N Air Filter Review - Debunking the Myths (and why OEM is better)

Of particular note are the charts showing time before the filter is considered "fully loaded" i.e. at its limit for holding dirt, and the chart showing accumulative capacity i.e. how much dirt the filter can hold at that limit. The K&N is pretty much at the bottom of both. It can't hold much, and it hits that limit very quickly.

hi guys i am following this thread for quite a long time but this my first post.Now i am finally thinking of getting duke, but there are some niggles that are putting me off. For ex
1) Engine oil leak
2) Coolant leaking
3) Low oil pressure warning
4) Chain making khat-khat sound
5) Oil tank leaking
6) Rims cracking and few more

I know a lot have been said about the above issues but i would still like to hear from the duke owners what have to say about this. I am a enthusiast and i know how to maintain my rides but these issues will be to much. I have never had these kind of issues in my previous ride(R15) in the ownership of 3 year and i expect the same from the duke. I hope i can get answers for my concern and then i can be one happy DUKER.
Thanks in advance

After i received my bike from service i noticed that the time on console has been changed. I am not able to find my manual, Can anyone tell me how to change time?
Also earlier the average speed, mileage, l/km and kms to service details used to change automatically every 5 secs or so while riding, Now it remains constant. Does anyone know how to toggle between these two settings.?