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  • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
    I am unable to get a perfect AFR on Passion+ 2005.
    The engine idling rpm doesn't sound stable.
    Note- my dad does not have a habit of checking or caring about mileage,the only way he reports any engine problem is by judging the pickup.
    So before tuning took the bike for a spin and I checked the mileage and it was just 40kmpl. (Reserve to reserve with 1 liter)

    After tuning also there is not much of a difference in mileage, idling rpm is not stable and pickup is also very low especially in 2nd gear there is a considerable amount of lag.

    Planning to clean all the carburetor and all its jets.
    BTW,bike's odometer has rolled over two times and it is showing ~5k(Yes,it is 205000 kms)

    Findings-
    1.Afr is somewhat between 2.75~3.5 turn from fully closed.
    2.Engine does heat a lot.
    3.There was some oil on spark plug threads.
    4.Engine is not burning oil but some soot particle are coming out of exhaust when revved very hard.(No white smoke)
    5.Mild Dry black sooty deposits on the inner exhaust.


    History
    1.Block piston changed twice @80k & 140k
    2. Re bored with oversize piston 0.25 @180k
    3.Clutches were replaced many times.
    4.Main Bearings was changed
    5.Last time clutch was replaced at 204k
    6.Timing chain also replaced.
    Your engine is running rich. While cleaning the carburettor open the the slide from the throttle spring and pop open the needle from slide. See that the cir clip will be on the 3rd position from below. Now open the clip and be careful as if you loose the clip you will not get it. Shift the clip to 4th position from below or second position from top(4th from below= 2nd from top). Now re tune the carburettor and see the engine is idling slowly and smoothly. If it doesn't work then go for a new carburettor and it is cheap. Go for splendor original carburettor from showroom(splendor and passion share same carburettor). Original carburettor is Rs 1700 and tell them that it is pollution model. The part no is 16100KCC941S. My joy carburettor was changed at 2.7 lacs km. Joy comes with 100 size main jet and splendor comes with 105 main jet and in joy the circlip is at 4th position as compared to 3rd position in splendor. However i feel if you go for new carburettor still also you will need to shift the needle to 4th position from below in order to lean the mixture as older engines require leaner mixture.
    And hero honda jets do not wear out. I fitted the 100 size jet from old carburettor. AS you have reported the mileage to be only 40 then you are required to change to new carburettor.
    Photo of my joy- http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/854067-post963.html-3.88 lac km cont....Ownership review of my joy- http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/832255-post608.html- slowly updating as and when getting time. HERO HONDA CBZ EXTREME(2011) - 47K KM AND COUNTINGhttp://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tml#post904152-carb tuning guide

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
      That goes to the Air suction valve diaphragm.
      Note-For some models that pipe goes to Intake manifold or the carburetor as in your case...
      Finally got some faltu time owing to nationwide strike .. it's standstill here in Calcutta . Ok shoeb'jee .. now I see that these tubes are routed quite differently in my 2010(july) splendor+ (it's pretty confusing for me) ... would have never noticed it, many thanks for your pic . This is how it's arranged in mine ...



      And this is the tube I am perplexed about , it seems to go up and ends right above the air box under the seat and just dangle in there freely on the other end ... can anyone tell me it's purpose or if it's correctly placed now ??

      Last edited by Pinaki; 02-28-2012, 01:08 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Pinaki View Post
        can anyone tell me it's purpose or if it's correctly placed now ??
        Its carb breather tube as per PSR Sir.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by sibun View Post
          Y... the cir clip will be on the 3rd position from below. ..
          Awesum detailed info ! Thanks Sibun'jee, we are learning a lot from you ... I feel like just riding onto Bhubneswar one weekend to meet you .
          Last edited by Pinaki; 02-28-2012, 01:38 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Aneesh@4GHz View Post
            Its carb breather tube as per PSR Sir.
            Ok , then is the carb supposed to breathe in unfiltered air from under the seat ?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Pinaki View Post
              Ok , then is the carb supposed to breathe in unfiltered air from under the seat ?
              Did a small research

              Can you check whether it has vacuum ?
              Ans.
              Checked my passion's carb ,there is no vacuum and it it left open and in fact there is no tube !!!

              Then what is it ?
              It is some sort of overflow passage/safety device,I tilted the bike till it touched the foot pegs and petrol came out of it .

              That Air suction valve needs vacuum to operate and there are two sources namely carb and intake manifold.
              In My passion it gets vacuum from intake manifold and in splendor it gets form carb .
              A vacuum leak will definitely result in efficiency and power loss so as you dont have any power loss ,there is noting to worry..
              Last edited by shoeb2015; 02-29-2012, 08:09 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sibun View Post
                Your engine is running rich. While cleaning the carburettor open the the slide from the throttle spring and pop open the needle from slide. See that the cir clip will be on the 3rd position from below. Now open the clip and be careful as if you loose the clip you will not get it. Shift the clip to 4th position from below or second position from top(4th from below= 2nd from top). Now re tune the carburettor and see the engine is idling slowly and smoothly. If it doesn't work then go for a new carburettor and it is cheap. Go for splendor original carburettor from showroom(splendor and passion share same carburettor). Original carburettor is Rs 1700 and tell them that it is pollution model. The part no is 16100KCC941S. My joy carburettor was changed at 2.7 lacs km. Joy comes with 100 size main jet and splendor comes with 105 main jet and in joy the circlip is at 4th position as compared to 3rd position in splendor. However i feel if you go for new carburettor still also you will need to shift the needle to 4th position from below in order to lean the mixture as older engines require leaner mixture.
                And hero honda jets do not wear out. I fitted the 100 size jet from old carburettor. AS you have reported the mileage to be only 40 then you are required to change to new carburettor.
                I forgot to tell you that engine is taking some time to get to idle rpm after accelerating.
                Throttle response has decreased a lot,it takes some time to accelerate and then it takes time to deceleration.(Checked the acc.cable FYI)
                I mean to say that there is a lot of LAG.
                Some symptoms are as if the engine is lean but some as rich

                Is there any rebuild kit available ?
                What is likely to wear-out in a carburetor ?

                I will try swapping the carburetor with that splendor but only on Sunday as Dad will need at-least one bike in working condition .

                Till then let your solutions pour in.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                  Did a small research
                  Can you check whether it has vacuum ?
                  Ans.
                  Checked my passion's carb ,there is no vacuum and it it left open and in fact there is no tube !!!
                  Then what is it ?
                  It is some sort of overflow passage/safety device,I tilted the bike till it touched the foot pegs and petrol came out of it .
                  That Air suction valve needs vacuum to operate and there are two sources namely carb and intake manifold.
                  In My passion it gets vacuum from intake manifold and in splendor it gets form carb .
                  A vacuum leak will definitely result in efficiency and power loss so as you dont have any power loss ,there is noting to worry..
                  Yes , I too checked that today morning ... no suction from that tube , but obviously it has some little bit air moving in and out of it since there is dust accumulation at the open end . Keeping it without tube isn't a good idea as it will easily let in water during rains or washing , so get a tube of some sort on the nipple and put the other (open) end under the seat somewhere (i fixed it to an faltu hole kinda gap on the back of the air-filter box now) . Silicone-rubber air-pump tubes available at aquarium(fish-tank) shops fits these nipples perfectly , I have checked . There is no place for unfiltered air inlet and/or petrol escaping hole on a carburetor AFAIK , so the function or purpose for this tube still baffles me , gotta ask PSr'jee now .

                  Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                  I forgot to tell you that engine is taking some time to get to idle rpm after accelerating.
                  Throttle response has decreased a lot,it takes some time to accelerate and then it takes time to deceleration.(Checked the acc.cable FYI)
                  I mean to say that there is a lot of LAG.
                  Some symptoms are as if the engine is lean but some as rich
                  Is there any rebuild kit available ?
                  What is likely to wear-out in a carburetor ?
                  I will try swapping the carburetor with that splendor but only on Sunday as Dad will need at-least one bike in working condition .
                  Till then let your solutions pour in.
                  Acceleration / Deceleration lag is a clear sign of a rich mix condition . Lean tuned engines always respond faster to throttle twist .
                  Since the splendor is the highest selling bike , and the splendor/passion/CUB/Honda-CT(trail) is the highest sold engine in this world ever; rebuild kit or parts for it should be available easily and cheaply . Things likely to wear out and go bad generally in a carb of this type is the throttle slide , throttle slide valve(long tapered/chamfered steel pin kinda) , all jets , float valve (pointy rubber tipped pin kinda thingy), idle & afr screw tips & threads . The plastic float itself can leak and fill with petrol . As sibun'jee correctly said jets do not wear out much by itself , but from my experience it's holes wear out larger(deform) from vigorous poking and cleaning with metal wires that local mechanics practice .
                  Last edited by Pinaki; 03-01-2012, 12:48 AM.

                  Comment


                  • This is in reply to a PM query with reply too long to post there .
                    Originally posted by harish_gkumar
                    Sirji
                    I cleaned and oiled my bikes air filter according t o ur instructions. My doubt is for removing excess oil from the foam we have to roll it in news paper /paper towl,do we have to press with news paper untill When the papers start coming off clean..ie with out any oil spots seen in the paper..and how to apply grease.
                    It's a balance , not dripping oil but not completely dry too. The foam should leave just a bit oil on touch with fingertip . It is the oil that filters/traps dust from air , the foam just acts as a media to hold the oil in . So too little oil=deficient filtering , too much oil=restricted air flow to carb .First wet it well with 90 weight gear oil . Then roll the foam between your hands and squeeze and let go alternately, to distribute the oil thoroughly through out the foam . There should be no dry spots. Then put a funnel on the gear oil bottle , and squeeze the foam hard(don't twist!) over it and keep the pressure on for few minutes ,so that excess oil drips off the filter back into the bottle . Roll it in newspaper just once/twice lightly without squeezing hard .... not that much so as the paper starts coming off completely dry ! Store the oiled foam in a polybag for a day to dry a bit . I have stopped using engine oil for this now since engine oil is dripping off from the foam in a couple of weeks, leaving dry spots on the foam .. very bad . I apply all-purpose lithium grease lightly on the metal wherever it meets the foam , this keeps that joint air-tight .Also a little bit where the filter meets it's holder/hole on the box. Check the post again, I have updated it with greasing pic .
                    Also please post questions like this on the Splendor thread itself so that the answers may help others too and attract replies from people lots more knowledgeable than me here .
                    Ok, I found the pic .. posting it again .

                    Last edited by Pinaki; 03-01-2012, 12:34 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Pinaki View Post
                      This is in reply to a PM query with reply too long to post there .
                      It's a balance , not dripping oil but not completely dry too. The foam should leave just a bit oil on touch with fingertip . It is the oil that filters/traps dust from air , the foam just acts as a media to hold the oil in . So too little oil=deficient filtering , too much oil=restricted air flow to carb .First wet it well with 90 weight gear oil . Then roll the foam between your hands and squeeze and let go alternately, to distribute the oil thoroughly through out the foam . There should be no dry spots. Then put a funnel on the gear oil bottle , and squeeze the foam hard(don't twist!) over it and keep the pressure on for few minutes ,so that excess oil drips off the filter back into the bottle . Roll it in newspaper just once/twice lightly without squeezing hard .... not that much so as the paper starts coming off completely dry ! Store the oiled foam in a polybag for a day to dry a bit . I have stopped using engine oil for this now since engine oil is dripping off from the foam in a couple of weeks, leaving dry spots on the foam .. very bad . I apply all-purpose lithium grease lightly on the metal wherever it meets the foam , this keeps that joint air-tight .Also a little bit where the filter meets it's holder/hole on the box. Check the post again, I have updated it with greasing pic .
                      Also please post questions like this on the Splendor thread itself so that the answers may help others too and attract replies from people lots more knowledgeable than me here .
                      Ok, I found the pic .. posting it again .

                      Nicely written..thank you sir..can we apply multipurpose veedol grease

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by harish_gkumar View Post
                        Nicely written..thank you sir..can we apply multipurpose veedol grease
                        Yups, any lithium based multi-purpose grease , wheel bearing grease , petroleum-jelly(vaseline) or specific air-filter lip sealing greases ( like the small white tube that comes with K&N recharge packs ) will do fine for this simple purpose . I used elf multipurpose lithium grease .
                        Harish'jee , request don't quote a full post along with pics and all .. makes the forum pages difficult to read . Welcome to the xbhp forums .
                        Last edited by Pinaki; 03-02-2012, 11:57 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Thank you sir for the suggestion

                          Comment


                          • After seeing so many Spareparts price list on various ownership threads I have decided to make a spreadsheet for HH

                            Please add spare parts price,part no. etc and make necessary changes.
                            Pinaki'jee and Sibun can contribute a lot.

                            Here is the link to the spreadsheet.


                            Anyone can edit/add entries.
                            Last edited by shoeb2015; 03-07-2012, 08:30 AM.

                            Comment


                            • I removed the carb,cleaned all the jets and passages with diesel today.
                              But idling rpm gets almost double after the engine gets hot.

                              Some smoke is also coming from the heat shield where the exhaust port joins silencer.

                              What could be the reason ?Please help me
                              Last edited by shoeb2015; 03-08-2012, 10:48 PM. Reason: error in data

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                                I removed the carb,cleaned all the jets and passages with diesel today.
                                But idling rpm gets almost double after the engine gets hot.

                                Some smoke is also coming from the heat shield where the exhaust port joins silencer.

                                What could be the reason ?Please help me

                                @pinaki ji

                                The pipe you mentioned earlier must be left open w/o any pipe,it goes directly to the bowl
                                It is a safety feature which allows the petrol to escape from the carb and switch of the engine when the bike falls towards left side whereas when the bike falls towards right petrol comes from bottom overflow tube.
                                IF Engine RPM is normal at cold start, and also after 1 Km ride or idling for 3 minutes , but after 10 to 15 minutes of riding in city increases, then it is a clear indication of lean AFR(air fuel ratio).Check if there is any inlet air leaks, or carb jets partially blocked..if all checks out ok ,then adjust the AFR screw by half turn to make it rich and try.
                                When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

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