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  • Note the white color of tip and sooty oil deposits.
    As per my judgement it looks that the engine is running lean and the oil rings are faulty. Right ?

    The most confusing part is there is No apparent drop in oil level and no visible white smoke at high RPM.

    As soon as I get some more time I will swap the carburetor(with splendor's) and check the plugs.

    EDIT:
    I also suspect misfiring/ low spark intensity due to faulty spark plug cable and cap. Got a nice jolt when I was moving it and cap came off and wire was somewhat rusted.

    Shall I change ignition coil and cables as my bike has done over 205k kms on it ?

    Sorry for troubling you guys.
    Last edited by shoeb2015; 03-07-2012, 10:02 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
      Note the white color of tip and sooty oil deposits.
      As per my judgement it looks that the engine is running lean and the oil rings are faulty. Right ?

      The most confusing part is there is No apparent drop in oil level and no visible white smoke at high RPM.

      As soon as I get some more time I will swap the carburetor(with splendor's) and check the plugs.

      EDIT:
      I also suspect misfiring/ low spark intensity due to faulty spark plug cable and cap. Got a nice jolt when I was moving it and cap came off and wire was somewhat rusted.

      Shall I change ignition coil and cables as my bike has done over 205k kms on it ?

      Sorry for troubling you guys.
      Try changing the ignition cable with cap...unable to help much ,due to plug picture being dark...If you are getting oil on the thread and also outside of plug then the rings,and bore+piston to be changed....the white center electrode shows that the plug is of correct temperature range.
      When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
        I removed the carb,cleaned all the jets and passages with diesel today.
        But idling rpm gets almost double after the engine gets hot.

        Some smoke is also coming from the heat shield where the exhaust port joins silencer.

        What could be the reason ?Please help me ..
        Diesel is a poor choice to clean carburetor .. it doesn't have enough solvency to dissolve fuel-gum and clear out the passages and holes . Better repeat the cleaning with carburetor cleaner(cyclo brand from pidilite is good) , even hot tide+water solution dip with toothbrush works well . Pluck a plastic strand from a new toilet brush and use it to poke the jet holes until you can see light through them clear . Wipe everything dry with soft clean cotton cloth .You have possibly left some jet or passage unclean yet . No point in looking for other problems until you have a fully clean carb to start with . You can read my effort on cleaning this carb here - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/701796-post103.html
        Smoke coming from exhaust-port to silencer-pipe joint - inspect closely for rust / leak / poor joint / bolts-tight etc obvious mechanical things . Else it may be just steam/vapours from water or oil-dirt trapped there . If there is a leak , it shall be accompanied by noise while engine is running .. and you can feel the escaping gas by moving your palm around the area .
        Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
        Note the white color of tip and sooty oil deposits.
        As per my judgement it looks that the engine is running lean and the oil rings are faulty. Right ?
        The most confusing part is there is No apparent drop in oil level and no visible white smoke at high RPM.
        As soon as I get some more time I will swap the carburetor(with splendor's) and check the plugs.
        EDIT:
        I also suspect misfiring/ low spark intensity due to faulty spark plug cable and cap. Got a nice jolt when I was moving it and cap came off and wire was somewhat rusted.
        Shall I change ignition coil and cables as my bike has done over 205k kms on it ?
        There is no oil on the plug . If there was oil , the carbon deposits would be shiny and oily . It's just dry carbon .. quite normal amount too . This much carbon soot will be there if you ride in low gears slowly in traffic . White firing tip , mixture is lean . No reason to suspect misfiring , just clean up the plug wire contacts right upto the induction coil and CDI with emery paper, blow and refit . Change plug if it's run more than 20k already , can't see much wear on this plug , can clean up and re-use ,correct plug-gap is 0.6-0.7mm, no problem .
        Last edited by Pinaki; 03-08-2012, 10:58 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pinaki View Post
          Diesel is a poor choice to clean carburetor .. it doesn't have enough solvency to dissolve fuel-gum and clear out the passages and holes . Better repeat the cleaning with carburetor cleaner(cyclo brand from pidilite is good) , even hot tide+water solution dip with toothbrush works well . Pluck a plastic strand from a new toilet brush and use it to poke the jet holes until you can see light through them clear . Wipe everything dry with soft clean cotton cloth .You have possibly left some jet or passage unclean yet . No point in looking for other problems until you have a fully clean carb to start with . You can read my effort on cleaning this carb here - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/701796-post103.html
          Smoke coming from exhaust-port to silencer-pipe joint - inspect closely for rust / leak / poor joint / bolts-tight etc obvious mechanical things . Else it may be just steam/vapours from water or oil-dirt trapped there . If there is a leak , it shall be accompanied by noise while engine is running .. and you can feel the escaping gas by moving your palm around the area .
          There is no oil on the plug . If there was oil , the carbon deposits would be shiny and oily . It's just dry carbon .. quite normal amount too . This much carbon soot will be there if you ride in low gears slowly in traffic . White firing tip , mixture is lean . No reason to suspect misfiring , just clean up the plug wire contacts right upto the induction coil and CDI with emery paper, blow and refit . Change plug if it's run more than 20k already , can't see much wear on this plug , can clean up and re-use ,correct plug-gap is 0.6-0.7mm, no problem .
          I have soaked the carb in surf+hot water for 30 mins and then
          I Cleaned it with diesel and then with petrol.
          Carb was cleaned with 1000 kms ago but to make sure that the carb is totally clean I opened it and cleaned it again yesterday.
          All jets are totally clean and open.

          There is oil on threads except first three threads.

          I will check the compression and report back soon.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
            I have soaked the carb in surf+hot water for 30 mins and then
            I Cleaned it with diesel and then with petrol.
            Carb was cleaned with 1000 kms ago but to make sure that the carb is totally clean I opened it and cleaned it again yesterday.
            All jets are totally clean and open.
            There is oil on threads except first three threads.
            I will check the compression and report back soon.
            Good , also make sure that the holes and passages on the carb body is clean, not just the jets . Still I suggest you get that can of carb-cleaner . it's handy and dissolves and blasts away dirt like nothing else . I use it for various otther purposes (like cleaning inside brake drums) , useful stuff .
            Oil on threads may not be a cause for concern (unless oil level is declining) . Most mechanics put a drop or two of engine oil on the plug threads before fitting it to prevent binding . Clean off the plug by scraping off the carbon best you can with 800grit+ emery paper , give it a blast with carb-cleaner can(or some iso-propyl alcohol or acetone) , wipe off , gap it correctly and refit . Oil leaking piston-bore would leave oil not only on plug threads , but also on the firing tip and porcelain insulator . If you doubt it , just buy a new ngk CR7HSA plug from HH service .. it's just 60 bucks .
            Last edited by Pinaki; 03-08-2012, 03:15 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Pinaki View Post
              Good , also make sure that the holes and passages on the carb body is clean, not just the jets . Still I suggest you get that can of carb-cleaner . it's handy and dissolves and blasts away dirt like nothing else . I use it for various otther purposes (like cleaning inside brake drums) , useful stuff .
              Oil on threads may not be a cause for concern (unless oil level is declining) . Most mechanics put a drop or two of engine oil on the plug threads before fitting it to prevent binding . Clean off the plug by scraping off the carbon best you can with 800grit+ emery paper , give it a blast with carb-cleaner can(or some iso-propyl alcohol or acetone) , wipe off , gap it correctly and refit . Oil leaking piston-bore would leave oil not only on plug threads , but also on the firing tip and porcelain insulator . If you doubt it , just buy a new ngk CR7HSA plug from HH service .. it's just 60 bucks .
              All the passages were cleaned using compressed air,I will get carb cleaner soon.
              I cleaned the spark plugs three times and oil gets deposited within 50 kms.
              Slight drop in oil noticed today.(Initial stages of worn rings/bore I guess)

              Anyways I will be replacing the block(which was re-bored) piston because since the day I got it re-bored there is less power even after running in properly.
              Looks like the boring guy has not done the job properly or the lathe guy has not grinded and installed the valves properly.

              It still requires more work in other areas and don't know how many more problems are going to creep in.

              Clutch bell need to be reconditioned or new.
              new Front mud guard.
              Front forks re-conditioning/cleaning.
              new rear shocks.
              New racer/cone kit.
              valve job and new valves.
              New front and rear wheel bearings.
              New Chain and sprockets.
              New bore/piston or a carburetor.

              All this will set me back by at-least 8k.
              Is it worth spending on a bike which has done 2,05,000 kms ?
              Last edited by shoeb2015; 03-08-2012, 04:00 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                All the passages were cleaned using compressed air,I will get carb cleaner soon.
                I cleaned the spark plugs three times and oil gets deposited within 50 kms.
                Slight drop in oil noticed today.(Initial stages of worn rings/bore I guess)

                Anyways I will be replacing the block(which was re-bored) piston because since the day I got it re-bored there is less power even after running in properly.
                Looks like the boring guy has not done the job properly or the lathe guy has not grinded and installed the valves properly.

                It still requires more work in other areas and don't know how many more problems are going to creep in.

                Clutch bell need to be reconditioned or new.
                new Front mud guard.
                Front forks re-conditioning/cleaning.
                new rear shocks.
                New racer/cone kit.
                valve job and new valves.
                New front and rear wheel bearings.
                New Chain and sprockets.
                New bore/piston or a carburetor.

                All this will set me back by at-least 8k.
                Is it worth spending on a bike which has done 2,05,000 kms ?
                Your plug shows your bike is running rich and your problem of unstable idling shows your carburettor is at the end of its life.
                Spending on the bike depends upon the attachment you have with your bike.
                Just yesterday i had opened up the engine of my joy completely and refitted.
                1. Clutch bell need to be reconditioned or new.- go for new clutch bell and GPT pinion with makino oil dipped clutch plate.
                Hero honda bell- 1061, makino clutch plate- 200, gpt- 160
                2. new Front mud guard.- go for original - 680
                3. Front forks re-conditioning/cleaning. - open completely and clean it with kerosene. Refit with new oil seal, springs and oil. Check whether the pipes have scoring marks. oil seal- 79 each, spring 250 both, motul shock oil - 120
                4. new rear shocks.- go for original new - 1600 for both.
                Photo of my joy- http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/854067-post963.html-3.88 lac km cont....Ownership review of my joy- http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/832255-post608.html- slowly updating as and when getting time. HERO HONDA CBZ EXTREME(2011) - 47K KM AND COUNTINGhttp://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tml#post904152-carb tuning guide

                Comment


                • Originally posted by sibun View Post
                  Your plug shows your bike is running rich and your problem of unstable idling shows your carburettor is at the end of its life.
                  Spending on the bike depends upon the attachment you have with your bike.
                  Just yesterday i had opened up the engine of my joy completely and refitted.
                  1. Clutch bell need to be reconditioned or new.- go for new clutch bell and GPT pinion with makino oil dipped clutch plate.
                  Hero honda bell- 1061, makino clutch plate- 200, gpt- 160
                  2. new Front mud guard.- go for original - 680
                  3. Front forks re-conditioning/cleaning. - open completely and clean it with kerosene. Refit with new oil seal, springs and oil. Check whether the pipes have scoring marks. oil seal- 79 each, spring 250 both, motul shock oil - 120
                  4. new rear shocks.- go for original new - 1600 for both.
                  Thanks for the info.
                  What all was replaced when you opened the engine ?
                  What was the problem you were facing ?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                    ...I cleaned the spark plugs three times and oil gets deposited within 50 kms...Slight drop in oil noticed today...
                    Ok , then it sounds like you have a problem at hand ... visit a reliable mechanic . Don't worry , Honda designed these engines to be really simple to repair .

                    Comment


                    • how much a pair of tail-lamp costs?
                      and the question remains why do i race?
                      every finishing line is the begining of a new race.

                      #i have learnt to manipulate my own adrenaline and the perception of biking is different.
                      #overkill is underrated.
                      #how random roads may appear there is always a destination.sigpic
                      #i don't subscribe to co-incidence,either it is the rider or the other moron on the road

                      (:)people keeps on saying add spark to life, bajaj got hold of that idea and added an extra spark to bike.

                      Comment


                      • I got a Bosch-Mico Spark-plug for Rs.70.
                        I do feel that it a duplicate or has a manufacturing defect because the electrode and insulator length is quite different from the plug(Champion) I have been using all this while.
                        I got this plug on Saturday and all the shops were closed so got it from a local shop.

                        Today I again went to get the plug from near by ASC(4km away) but they are not willing to sell parts over the counter.
                        They are telling me that its a New company policy to not sell the parts ? Is this policy only at this ASC or Everywhere ?

                        I will replace it with original soon.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                          I got a Bosch-Mico Spark-plug for Rs.70.
                          I do feel that it a duplicate or has a manufacturing defect because the electrode and insulator length is quite different from the plug(Champion) I have been using all this while.
                          I got this plug on Saturday and all the shops were closed so got it from a local shop.

                          Today I again went to get the plug from near by ASC(4km away) but they are not willing to sell parts over the counter.
                          They are telling me that its a New company policy to not sell the parts ? Is this policy only at this ASC or Everywhere ?

                          I will replace it with original soon.
                          You must have got original plug because mico plug has shorter center electrode length than ngk and champion. That is the reason they last longer than ngk and champion when any engine consumes oil. It is a common practice to use mico plugs when any engine consumes oil so that it doesn't get shorted.If your engine is consuming oil then do not use any plug other than mico otherwise it will get shorted very soon.
                          your plug indicates rich mixture and from your description your carburettor looks faulty.
                          My bikes engine was opened because of crank sound. Nothing much was replaced as engine was rebuilt just 1.5 years ago(35k kms).
                          My mechanic and i sat to complete the job and none of his assistants were allowed to touch the engine.
                          1. Con-rod was changed at lathe
                          2. All packing, oil seals, and o-rings were changed
                          3. The bore was lightly honed and same piston rings were fitted as there was no gap in rings.
                          4. Although clutch plates were not required but i replaced it.
                          5. The timing kit was changed japan timing chain was fitted. (it is much silent than OE chain and last much longer).
                          Then my mechanic and me sat and fit the engine. Then the engine was left idling for 3 hours and then tuned.
                          The best part is that my mechanic didn't charge me as the engine showed defect after he rebuilt the engine. Even hero honda cannot give such warranty(1.5 years and 35k kms). Only cost for me was the parts.
                          Photo of my joy- http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/854067-post963.html-3.88 lac km cont....Ownership review of my joy- http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/832255-post608.html- slowly updating as and when getting time. HERO HONDA CBZ EXTREME(2011) - 47K KM AND COUNTINGhttp://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tml#post904152-carb tuning guide

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by sibun View Post
                            You must have got original plug because mico plug has shorter center electrode length than ngk and champion. That is the reason they last longer than ngk and champion when any engine consumes oil. It is a common practice to use mico plugs when any engine consumes oil so that it doesn't get shorted.
                            My bikes engine was opened because of crank sound. Nothing much was replaced as engine was rebuilt just 1.5 years ago(35k kms).
                            My mechanic and i sat to complete the job and none of his assistants were allowed to touch the engine.
                            Next time you open engine do take some pictures of the tools required such as Splitters and bearing pullers any tips and precautions needed to be taken to ensure perfect fitting and to avoid damages.
                            I could only dare to open only the head and block because I don't have the required tools but day by day my tools inventory is increasing.

                            .If your engine is consuming oil then do not use any plug other than mico otherwise it will get shorted very soon.
                            your plug indicates rich mixture and from your description your carburettor looks faulty.
                            As of now I wont be replacing the carburetor before I rectify other underlying engine problems,Mainly valves ,head and piston/rings need attention because there is some oil consumption.


                            The timing kit was changed japan timing chain was fitted. (it is much silent than OE chain and last much longer).
                            I want to change the timing chain to japan made as my new chain is also making noise(100rs wala chain).
                            How can I identify Japan made chain ? Under what name is it sold ?



                            In summer I plan to open the engine completely myself as I get some holidays and lots of free time .

                            Problems which are needed to rectified are

                            1.Bearings(Main) are making noise ,

                            2.connecting rod is making knocking sound under little load also and oil rings are probably shot and oil is also being consumed.

                            3.Which company piston and bore and rings are good ?

                            4.Head needs to be Decarbed and valve stem is also leaking slightly because some smoke white is coming if the bike is left idle for 3-4 days and then it is started.

                            5.Carburetor is also faulty but I will see if it can be reconditioned.

                            6.Clutch plates are almost new but clutch basket/bell is making dhak-dhak noise at idle and that sound goes away if i pull the clutch.

                            7.Exhaust pipe is clogged or internally damaged or leaking because it is making unusual buoour sound.

                            8.Wiring has to be repaired.(Thanks to my innumerable electrical mods)

                            9.Cosmetic repairs are needed such as stickers and plastic side panels and Fender/mud guard.

                            9.All the rubber bushes/mountings are gone bad and almost plastic every part is vibrating and rattling at their corresponding frequencies at various rpms.

                            10.New foot pegs and crash guard.

                            11.Head and block gasket is leaking very little oil but it smokes when engine become hot.


                            Any tips for me ?

                            Please don't tell me to Go to a mechanic and get the repairs done.
                            I want to DO It Myself as it gives me satisfaction and peace and makes me feel happy even if I don't do it correctly.(Hope you understand what I mean to say).
                            Sorry for this long and irrelevant post.

                            Welcome all suggestions and tips.
                            Last edited by shoeb2015; 03-12-2012, 09:11 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                              I got a Bosch-Mico Spark-plug for Rs.70.
                              I do feel that it a duplicate or has a manufacturing defect because the electrode and insulator length is quite different from the plug(Champion) I have been using all this while...
                              The plug is ok , like Sibun'jee said .. mico plugs look a bit odd when compared to NGK or Champion ones , just make sure the total length protruding from the end-of-threads to the tip is same . Sibun'jee can you give us the NGK's CR7HSA corresponding part numbers for Champion & Mico plugs for splendor ?
                              Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                              ...Today I again went to get the plug from near by ASC(4km away) but they are not willing to sell parts over the counter.They are telling me that its a New company policy to not sell the parts ? Is this policy only at this ASC or Everywhere ?
                              Yes , they are giving this same bullsh*t here too . So I found out that the state-wide stockist/distributor for HeroHonda for West-Bengal is Bansal motors , and the ASC's are also buying their parts-stock from them . Now I just get it directly from Bansal motors instead of wasting time arguing with these jokers . Suggest you find out who's the state-wide distributor for your state and solve this problem forever . HeroHonda has at least one such stockist/distributor in every major city .

                              Originally posted by sibun View Post
                              ...The best part is that my mechanic didn't charge me as the engine showed defect after he rebuilt the engine. Even hero honda cannot give such warranty(1.5 years and 35k kms). Only cost for me was the parts.
                              I am envying you like anything for this guy you have down there Sibun'jee , not a single honest skillful mechanic here in kolkata , not at the ASCs not outside of it . Every time I've been to one, I get three new problems instead-of/along-with the one I was trying to mend .

                              Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post
                              Next time you open engine do take some pictures of the tools required such as Splitters and bearing pullers any tips and precautions needed to be taken to ensure perfect fitting and to avoid damages.
                              I could only dare to open only the head and block because I don't have the required tools but day by day my tools inventory is increasing...
                              You too keep pictures for us brother ... and I'm building up my own tool-set too , found no other reliable way .
                              Last edited by Pinaki; 03-13-2012, 12:51 AM.

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                              • Last edited by Pinaki; 03-14-2012, 04:56 AM.

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