Re: Apache RTR/FI

very true brother,
Just came from tristar(Domlur). according to them Noting can be done without replacing entire wiring harness costs 2k+(not in stock, min 15-20 days waiting period).
i will visit DTW in evening to check any thing can be done on this issue.its turning to be a white elephant for me..
thanks,
Raman

Re: Apache RTR/FI

Hi,
Can any Apache-Fi owners post picture of this ECU diagnostic probe/connector picture and its wiring under seat.
thanks,
Raman

Re: Apache RTR/FI

i'll try and take pics later today when i get time. where is the issue? connector-end or where it meets the main wiring harness?

meanwhile, i'm not 100% sure about this but a very reliable and knowledgeable friend told me that disconnecting the battery for a while (30 mins to be safe) will reset all ecu settings to default, including AFR/CO. I haven't ECU'd my bike for about 5-6 years and its running fine. gave me 70+ once running ~250km highway going below 50km/h the whole time. but where's the fun in that? i rev it to 7-8k rpm and typically i get 40-45 in city, riding pretty aggressively. does about 120-125 top speed. This is on a very worn engine, compression is pretty low once hot, probably a badly worn cylinder, and a clutch which is almost finished. anyway, what i'm saying is you probably don't need to diagnose the ECU, except maybe to check what's going on, try seeing if disconnecting the battery resets it.

I completely disagree with the fi specifically having issues, the wiring harness though is absolutely crap quality. and tvs has used insulation tape to wrap the whole thing where they should have used sleeves and heat-shrink. I had quite a few wiring harness issues, which i've mostly fixed myself because I didn't want to buy a new harness for 3.5k. But look at it this way. For a 7 year old bike, is spending 3.5k really too much?

I mean, my upcoming engine overhaul is gonna be easily 3k for the clutch and maybe 5-10k for the engine depending on what all i'm gonna fix. this is including both parts and labour. as far as i'm concerned the fi system is pretty flawless, but the rest of the electrical and mechanical systems are quite poor in quality and longevity.

more essay later...

p.s. bike is a sep 2008 with ~48k on the odo

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I think it's 790mm. and nice to see someone using the correct term instead of 'seat'

Re: Apache RTR/FI



Hi Julian paul,
i bought this bike from one of my mutual friends.previous owner prior to my friend has messed with bike wiring in order to install remote locking system, at this time he had cut the ECU diagnostic port(which connects to the PC diagnostic tool).moreover my cousin took the bike and messed with AFR screw.so i will try your suggetion of disconnecting battery for few hours.
please post the wiring of ECU to diagnostic port..and also for battery to charging capacitor/Rectifier(black tube like structure)..
i will check with electrician to make changes for these.just wanted to bring to stock wiring harness and its not feasible to spend ~3k on wiring harness(that too not readily available).
apart from crappy wiring bike is rock solid, but bad wiring/electrical issues letting down.i will take your points and use sleeves/heat shrinks for joints for whole wiring.
my bike 2009 made has done around 35k on ODO.

can we just adjust idling using CO machine
does this is the right procedure in my case to adjust back AFR?(putting CO machine rod in silencer and setting CO values(specified) on CO machine,in meantime adjusting idling using AFR)
thanks ,
Raman

Re: Apache RTR/FI

CO/AFR is supposed to be adjusted from the diagnostic s/w on the pc. And the actual reading to be checked on a CO machine. In the absence of this, assuming that disconnecting the battery has now reset all values to default, all you need to do is warm up the bike (ride normally for 15 minutes), and then adjust the idle screw to 1400rpm. Again, assuming the tachometer is accurate. I don't think there is any screw for AFR/CO.

I hope you have a copy of the service manual. All Fi-specific tuning methods are mentioned in it. Page 30.

I would strongly recommend placing an order for the wiring harness instead of getting a mech to work on it. If you are going to be doing it yourself, that's another matter, but wiring is a major PITA job and most mechs wouldn't take the time needed to do a proper job. Again, 3.5k is nothing when you consider the age of the bike.

p.s. make sure to change the fuel filter regularly.

Re: Apache RTR/FI

For me it never reset and I always had the jerking issue. Hence changed it to carb. Jerking issues went away but electrical issue became a pain in the a**. should have met you earlier. All it took was a rat to kick start the problems with my bike. But once you have ridden a fi bike you would not want anything else. I didn't like the refinement of fi system even on r15, cbr250 and pulsar 220 when compared to rtr. Wish they had come up with upgrades and a more powerful rtr.

Re: Apache RTR/FI

Hi julian,
Morning i found a six pin connector which was hidden behind battery compartment.the connector has melted due to acid leakage(may be from old battery).i will upload the pics in sometime.in mean time could you post the oic of just connector to diagnostic tool (need to how many wires connected to it..)
I too facing jerking issue after replacing temp sensor(ETS) that too mainly in afternoon..

Re: Apache RTR/FI

The only real gripe I have with the Rtr's Fi system is that it is not gradual enough going from fully closed throttle to say 1% open. This means that there's a jerk between closed and open throttle. Not an issue when I ride alone, I usually accelerate hard enough that it overcomes the jerk and I don't even notice it, But if i'm riding slow with a pillion, then it's such a problem that I have to slip the clutch when going from closed throttle to open, just to keep it rolling smooth. Maybe this is why my clutch is dying in under 50k kms, since i use the clutch pretty sparingly otherwise.

Guys, please share more details of the jerking you're mentioning, like at what rpm, speed and throttle opening.

Re: Apache RTR/FI

Im facing jerking at 2k-4k rpm mostly in 3rd or 4th gear.
this is the connector?
please post the pic of connector need to check whether its intact in bike or not?
Thanks,
Raman

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i will post clear picture tomorrow.

Re: Apache RTR/FI

Yeah I agree on the first part. While riding solo its fine but with a pillion it always felt like the bike was losing its breath. It cooler temperatures the bike performs awesome. I have felt jerking at all rev ranges. Only in cooler temperatures the bike was performing the best. I had changed the entire wiring kit, changed the temp sensor, throttle body, the fuel pump... Nothing resolved the jerking. Even the PC diagnostic tool was tried many times to increase the fuel flow. My advice is to try changing the fuel injector. My assumption is the stock one has 6 holes... Correct me if am wrong. This is what my mechanic said. He casually had one day had spoken about injector which has 8 holes would have corrected the lean fuel flow at lower rpms and that would have reduced the jerking. I dont know how far its true. The seniors can advise he. It will be a learning for me as well.

Re: Apache RTR/FI

I'm sorry I was busy and couldn't take a pic. I have like the worst camera phone in the world and would need good daylight to take a photo. Will definitely try and get it up tomorrow.

I too had a connector damaged by battery acid, probably the same one you have shown. I think it goes to the crankcase and includes wiring for the crank position sensor and neutral sensor. Will update more tomorrow.

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I'm pretty sure the jerking you guys are mentioning has nothing to do with the AFR. Rather it is probably some kind of obstruction in the flow caused either physically, or electrically. I'm also wondering how often people are changing their fuel filters. It is critical to proper functioning of the fuel pump and injector and is not the same as in a carb bike. I delayed changing my filter by 3-4k kms and at one point i could actually feel and hear the pump straining to function. Removed the filter and the mech couldn't even blow air through it !

I've used IOC premium for about half of the bike's life, these days i occasionally use an injector cleaner additive in the petrol. With the crappy fuel we get in india, the injector could also be getting clogged. Have you cleaned the injector? Best way is to remove it and use a carb or injector cleaner spray can. But be sure to have spare injector o-rings on hand because if the old ones are damaged when removing, you're basically screwed.

Re: Apache RTR/FI


Hi Julian,
more pics of connector as said.

Re: Apache RTR/FI

Ok got the pics but they look like crap.

Here's the wiring/pinout:

Ecu coupler (6-pin)

1. Orange-black
2. Orange-red
3. Grey-red
4. Black-white
5. Yellow-black
6. Orange

The following connectors behind the battery were damaged by acid:

Ignition-coil coupler (3-pin)

1. Red-white
2. Black-white
3. Blue

Starter relay (4-pin)

1. Green-brown
2. Blue
3. Black-white
4. Blue-black

Rear brake switch (2-pin)

1. Orange
2. Yellow

Re: Apache RTR/FI

does pic of connector posted by me is ECU coupler?

Re: Apache RTR/FI

Sure looks like it. Check the wiring colour codes i've posted to confirm.

p.s. when replying don't quote the entire previous post (especially pics). Makes it hard to read the thread...