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**Makky** · 08-07-2013, 03:12 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by dishayu View Post

Well, that's literally just 1 bike. Alvaro Bautista :|

Bradl was there before.

Anyway, the point is Tech3 M1 isn't as bad as the crowd assumes.

**dishayu** · 08-07-2013, 03:26 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by samschenker View Post

IIRC Bradl recently switched from Nissin to Brembo front brakes & still uses Nissin brakes for the rear.

Yup, that's right, actually.

Originally posted by Makky View Post

Bradl was there before.

Anyway, the point is Tech3 M1 isn't as bad as the crowd assumes.

I don't think any satellite bike is much worse, compared to the respective factory bikes. It's more a matter of setup, IMO. And inferior equipment, thanks to penny-pinching, in Bautista's case.

**incipient** · 08-07-2013, 03:36 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by niranjanvaidya View Post

One thing that baffles me and many others who ride the bike on trackdays is the way these riders handle body position during braking. As a basic principle of riding, the rider is not supposed to transfer weight on the handlebar and hence the knee-thigh grip is so important to prevent one from sliding all the way up to the tank. If you observe these motogp riders, they do not grip the tank under braking, nor do they appear to be loading up the handlebar.

Good question! i am glad that u brought this up.
I was completely baffled too. Of all the books, articles, videos i've seen not one has this being explained or even mentioned. Even in Andy Ibbot's book on MotoGP riding techniques he recommends using the knee to support the body while braking without explaining how every MotoGP rider brakes or why they do it this way. As it often happens sometimes the only way to learn is by watching the pro's do their thing and trying it out for yourself.

On my bike (R15 v2) I used to grab the tank hard with the knees during braking. By doing this you can have practically have zero weight on the arms and handlebar. This is perfectly fine for braking straight up or if you are not hanging off while cornering or interested in improving your corner entry speed.
On my first few attempts at braking MotoGP style without using the knee, i figured it was impossible. Your body is thrown forwards without the knee support and if you have your bum off the seat ready for the corner you will be thrown forwards twisted (that's just awful). After a lot of the trial and error and practice i finally got it, here's how i do it:

- First of all you have got to learn to weight the pegs. Generally most of your body weight must be on the pegs not on the seat.
- You must have a fair amount of bend in the arms. This is key.
- Before braking get into the hang off position. Apply the brakes and at the same time push down hard on the pegs with the outside leg (or both legs). My mental cue is to stand on the pegs and try to move my body back and away from the tank. (Its just a cue i don't actually stand on the bike or able to move my body aft under hard braking).
- The inside of the thigh (outside leg) makes contact with the tank, that also helps prevents the body being thrown forwards.
- Yes, there is still going to be weight on your arms. But its not a problem (as long as you do all the above correctly).

Its a lot more work for sure and you certainly need a fair amount of core, leg and upper body strength (doing bicep curls in the gym isn't going to productive) but hey an hour of spririted riding (even on the street) is a pretty a good exercise! :-)
Another advantage i found out doing this is that you get much better feedback from the front end. If you grip the knees hard with no weight on the arms then the feedback is not good. As you might be know for corner entry - especially if you are trail braking - front end feedback is critical.

**niranjanvaidya** · 08-07-2013, 04:14 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by dishayu View Post

couple of tenths, you mean? :P
I don't think Yamaha would bother if it was only worth a couple of hundredths :P

yes...a couple of hundredths per shift adding up to a tenth or couple of tenths over a lap

Originally posted by incipient View Post

Good question! i am glad that u brought this up.
I was completely baffled too. Of all the books, articles, videos i've seen not one has this being explained or even mentioned. Even in Andy Ibbot's book on MotoGP riding techniques he recommends using the knee to support the body while braking without explaining how every MotoGP rider brakes or why they do it this way. As it often happens sometimes the only way to learn is by watching the pro's do their thing and trying it out for yourself.

On my bike (R15 v2) I used to grab the tank hard with the knees during braking. By doing this you can have practically have zero weight on the arms and handlebar. This is perfectly fine for braking straight up or if you are not hanging off while cornering or interested in improving your corner entry speed.
On my first few attempts at braking MotoGP style without using the knee, i figured it was impossible. Your body is thrown forwards without the knee support and if you have your bum off the seat ready for the corner you will be thrown forwards twisted (that's just awful). After a lot of the trial and error and practice i finally got it, here's how i do it:

- First of all you have got to learn to weight the pegs. Generally most of your body weight must be on the pegs not on the seat.
- You must have a fair amount of bend in the arms. This is key.
- Before braking get into the hang off position. Apply the brakes and at the same time push down hard on the pegs with the outside leg (or both legs). My mental cue is to stand on the pegs and try to move my body back and away from the tank. (Its just a cue i don't actually stand on the bike or able to move my body aft under hard braking).
- The inside of the thigh (outside leg) makes contact with the tank, that also helps prevents the body being thrown forwards.
- Yes, there is still going to be weight on your arms. But its not a problem (as long as you do all the above correctly).

Its a lot more work for sure and you certainly need a fair amount of core, leg and upper body strength (doing bicep curls in the gym isn't going to productive) but hey an hour of spririted riding (even on the street) is a pretty a good exercise! :-)
Another advantage i found out doing this is that you get much better feedback from the front end. If you grip the knees hard with no weight on the arms then the feedback is not good. As you might be know for corner entry - especially if you are trail braking - front end feedback is critical.

Right you are...we figured the footpeg loading idea as well but, loaded footpegs make it difficult to move about a lot. In some of the close slow motion videos, one can clearly see how light these riders are on their pegs as well. Some of them even taking time off to shift. So, although this works, these elite class bikers do not use this technique.

But I agree with you, the real secret is core muscle strength. As anyone doing regular trackdays might have found out, the core muscles take a hammering.

**R-series** · 08-07-2013, 04:51 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

And in the R15 v2 thread when I stated that working out is equally important as skill in riding a sports bike at full potential, all that they had to do make fun.
I personally am into fitness since the age of 6-7yrs and I like to know about the level of fitness required in different sports. Where bradly smith does a lot of endurance training like cycling and skiing in winters, pedrosa does an average of 1000 crunches a day along with other stuff. I've personally incorporated some of their training methods in my schedule which after a weeks time actually shows you how easy it is to do what we generally do on a bike and push further when we are physically in a better state.
So this sport is actually like any other sport which requires athleticism and skill together.

**Makky** · 08-07-2013, 05:15 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Cal Crutchlow wants current crew chief Daniele Romagnoli to join him at Ducati in 2014

Motorcycle Sport & Bike Racing News | MotoGP, World Superbikes & More

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2013/August/aug0713-crutchlow-vows-not-to-wreck-tech3

Get the lowdown on the latest motorcycle sport news - MotoGP, World Superbikes, British Superbikes and much more! Check out MCN for exclusive news.

**R-series** · 08-07-2013, 05:37 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

It has seriously become a tradition no? 😀
Anyways cal has gained more of my respect by stating I do not want to jeopardise harve's team in any way, and I'm adamant about it.👍

**niranjanvaidya** · 08-07-2013, 06:00 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by R-series View Post

And in the R15 v2 thread when I stated that working out is equally important as skill in riding a sports bike at full potential, all that they had to do make fun.
I personally am into fitness since the age of 6-7yrs and I like to know about the level of fitness required in different sports. Where bradly smith does a lot of endurance training like cycling and skiing in winters, pedrosa does an average of 1000 crunches a day along with other stuff. I've personally incorporated some of their training methods in my schedule which after a weeks time actually shows you how easy it is to do what we generally do on a bike and push further when we are physically in a better state.
So this sport is actually like any other sport which requires athleticism and skill together.

+100. Endurance training is a must and all of these MotoGP stars are super fit athletes. Riding a bike at it's peak pace saps one physically and mentally. I have seen lap times come down or stay consistent as fitness gets better.

Sadly, our government and sports body treats motorsports as entertainment and not as a sport...such a bloody shame.

**incipient** · 08-07-2013, 07:05 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by niranjanvaidya View Post

Right you are...we figured the footpeg loading idea as well but, loaded footpegs make it difficult to move about a lot. In some of the close slow motion videos, one can clearly see how light these riders are on their pegs as well. Some of them even taking time off to shift. So, although this works, these elite class bikers do not use this technique.

If you are taking a right hand corner for example, it is certainly possible to downshift even while loading the peg heavily.
Though i would like to add a subtle point. Just before tipping the bike into the turn i do unweight the outside peg and sort of "pull down" the bike with the outside knee/thigh pressing against the tank while countersteering. Because the bike is obviously harder to turn in while weighting the outside peg heavily. But for the during of the hard braking part i found weighting the peg does help keep the rear wheel resonably planted.
Also, consider the leg waiving that rossi and clutchlow do. the body has got to have a support point other than the bars and tank and i can't think of any thing other than the outside peg.
But ofcouse all this is just my 2 cents. :-)

Another thing, these guys also have the benefit of better sculpted knee recesses and traction pads. But i don't know if that makes a significant difference.

**niranjanvaidya** · 08-07-2013, 07:34 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by incipient View Post

If you are taking a right hand corner for example, it is certainly possible to downshift even while loading the peg heavily.
Though i would like to add a subtle point. Just before tipping the bike into the turn i do unweight the outside peg and sort of "pull down" the bike with the outside knee/thigh pressing against the tank while countersteering. Because the bike is obviously harder to turn in while weighting the outside peg heavily. But for the during of the hard braking part i found weighting the peg does help keep the rear wheel resonably planted.
Also, consider the leg waiving that rossi and clutchlow do. the body has got to have a support point other than the bars and tank and i can't think of any thing other than the outside peg.
But ofcouse all this is just my 2 cents. :-)

Another thing, these guys also have the benefit of better sculpted knee recesses and traction pads. But i don't know if that makes a significant difference.

To each his own

Lower body weight also helps in keeping the weight off different parts of the bike.

**Thamps** · 08-07-2013, 07:47 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

These are 8 styles of cornering by some of the greatest riders,at the same corner from the golden era..
Schwantz,doohan,rainey,gardner.
They were all more or less the same in terms of pace and skills,yet notice how different each of their body positioning and lean angles are..though the corner speeds & lean angles are much more extreme now,these were the real gladiators.no tc,electronics,no D-air suits,just raw guts and pure skills,not to mention those 2stroke beasts..

Attached Files

**niranjanvaidya** · 08-07-2013, 08:27 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by Thamps View Post

These are 8 styles of cornering by some of the greatest riders,at the same corner from the golden era..
Schwantz,doohan,rainey,gardner.
They were all more or less the same in terms of pace and skills,yet notice how different each of their body positioning and lean angles are..though the corner speeds & lean angles are much more extreme now,these were the real gladiators.no tc,electronics,no D-air suits,just raw guts and pure skills,not to mention those 2stroke beasts..

Thank you for sharing such wonderful pics. Doohan's style was the most debated amongst the purists. Traditionally, the body has to open up in the direction of the corner..Doohan had a closed style which usually affects the rider's ability to look further into the direction of corner.

Anyway, brilliant. How about comparing retro with modern? Doohan with Stoner, Rainey with Rossi, Schwantz with Lorenzo, Gardner (who rode with heart) with Marquez (who also rides with a big heart).

**Braumabull** · 08-07-2013, 08:51 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Originally posted by Thamps View Post

These are 8 styles of cornering by some of the greatest riders,at the same corner from the golden era..
Schwantz,doohan,rainey,gardner.
They were all more or less the same in terms of pace and skills,yet notice how different each of their body positioning and lean angles are..though the corner speeds & lean angles are much more extreme now,these were the real gladiators.no tc,electronics,no D-air suits,just raw guts and pure skills,not to mention those 2stroke beasts..

Great share mate...

**incipient** · 08-07-2013, 08:55 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Nice collage!

Those look like pretty good lean angle. I suprised that they could lean so much even back then.

**Makky** · 08-07-2013, 09:03 PM

Re: MotoGP 2013 Season - Updates

Love the M1's burble!

Valentino Rossi a Jorge Lorenzo test Brno 7.8.2013 - YouTube

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