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**jack_daniels** · 06-02-2014, 03:22 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by niranjanvaidya View Post

Good to see you posting after Jorge's revival

This was one epic race and I was glued to the edge of the seat till the very end. Jorge definitely had that Yamaha working well for him. The use of larger discs helped the Yamaha under braking as well as the fact that Mugello is one of the circuits that suit the Yamaha very well despite loosing on top end power. Not to mention that Jorge loves this circuit.

Not only Mugello, the next 2 circuits Catalunya & Montmello are Yamaha strongholds. So, we should hopefully witness epic Honda vs Yamaha battles.
I thought I watched the best race of my life today. Even better than Silverstone last season where Jorge Lorenzo triumphed. After MM passed JL, I thought probably #93 will open a gap but I was wrong. He was matched equally by #99. There were a total of 11 position exchanges between the 2 in the last 5 laps. Epic!!
& Iannone was truly brilliant today. The way he fought with Pedrosa was truly breathtaking. Pity that he chose a Soft rear tyre when all the others were on medium compounds.

So, he was already out of contention midway through the race.
& yeah Yamaha finally seems to have found an edge in terms of braking performance. I think Yamaha has improved siginificantly in the braking area.

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**J4rn0** · 06-02-2014, 04:00 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by aditya_YZF-R15 View Post

it was because of honda's higher top speed and marquez making perfect use of the slipstream...from the onboard shots there appeared a difference of 10-15 kmph in the top speed between their bikes..as marquez said in his interviews, his team also had made a small modification in the 6th gear because they thought it might help them under slipstream on the long straight should he need it during the race and he said that modification in 6th gear indeed helped him a lot to make use of the slipstream from lorenzo and pass him at the end of the straight so many times..lorenzo was brilliantly passing marc on the corners under late braking or higher corner speed nearly every time at times through very small gaps, and marc was passing lorenzo at the end of the straight at turn 1 most of the times (but there were also at least 2 times when lorenzo himself had defensively braked so late for turn 1 that marquez got beside him due to slipstreaming but couldnt pass him at the risk of running too wide).

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not each time mate, but only twice :-)
to verify myself i just watched the last 8 laps of the race and marquez did what you described only on the last lap (when he went wide at turn 1 but trail braked hard mid corner to close the wide gap beside him just in time as lorenzo seemed about to pass him, leading lorenzo himself to brake hard mid corner to save from clipping marc and this slowed his speed down very much enough to give marquez a fairly big gap from lorenzo which turned out too big to close before the finish line) and in the 3rd lap from the end where he again managed to quickly close the subsequent gap from running a bit wide at turn 1 disabling lorenzo to pass him...

however, at 5th and 2nd laps from the end, the roles were reversed....lorenzo himself instead ran a bit wide at turn 1 on account of braking later than marquez to nullify his slipstream and quickly managed to close the subsequent gap beside him to prevent marquez from passing him...and also, at 4th lap from the end, marquez passed lorenzo at the end of the straight at turn 1 and ran a bit wide again but this time lorenzo came back charging at him at the following corner despite marquez hardly leaving much of a space on the inside and made a fairly aggressive pass through a narrow gap on marquez right at that corner (turn 2). :-)

Nice and competent account buddy, thanks - didn't have a chance to watch a replay of the race yet, I was at the track (I live in Tuscany) and from my position I could see the end of the straight and most of the San Donato corner, so my impression was vivid but inevitably partial. Anyway from what you say I think I was able to get the essence of that duel, also because it was decided right there.

**aditya_YZF-R15** · 06-02-2014, 04:24 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by niranjanvaidya View Post

Good to see you posting after Jorge's revival

not sure if it's his revival or not yet...perhaps just a one-off back to form in an awesome manner ? let's see (and hope) the next 1-2 races...he really is the only one who can challenge marquez this year or at least make him work unusually hard to win (marquez-honda combo this year is invincible it appears, so perhaps beating him is only a distant possibility, but surely at circuits favouring the yamaha a bit more lorenzo can in theory give marc a run for his money like mugello and make him really earn it)..

Originally posted by niranjanvaidya View Post

This was one epic race and I was glued to the edge of the seat till the very end. Jorge definitely had that Yamaha working well for him. The use of larger discs helped the Yamaha under braking as well as the fact that Mugello is one of the circuits that suit the Yamaha very well despite loosing on top end power. Not to mention that Jorge loves this circuit. It was interesting to watch as for the first 2/3 of the race was spent by Marquez trying to close in on Jorge at the last corner of the circuit. Yamaha's sweet handling machine gave Jorge his superior corner speed and made it difficult for Marquez to come close to him to get a slipstream.

true story.

Originally posted by niranjanvaidya View Post

Perhaps Marquez found a better line and a later braking point in the closing stages.

he said in the post race press conference that the reason he could find himself better able to close in on lorenzo in the last 5-6 laps was because the tyres had by then gone off a little bit which strangely enough made him more comfortable to push at the final corner and at the straight..he couldnt explain on it any further..perhaps that helped him somehow get a better drive out of the final corner and achieve better top speed and therefore better slipstreaming..

Originally posted by niranjanvaidya View Post

I know but cant help admire both these riders for the way they ride and handle pressure.

+1..thats what makes their battles so intense and awesome to watch...2 most different styles ever on 2 very different bikes taking mostly very different lines...silverstone 2013, first 2/3 of motegi 2013 and mugello 2014 are the 3 highlights of their intense close racing...

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Originally posted by J4rn0 View Post

I was at the track (I live in Tuscany)

awesome...not just because you could see the race up close in a circuit so sensational, but also that tuscany has the reputation of having some of the best never ending twisty roads for cornering junkies in europe apparently..hope you enjoy them corners as well..i can't :-(

**nirvaana** · 06-02-2014, 07:23 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

How awkward would it look if Marquez wins all 18 rounds? And it's very much possible too

**J4rn0** · 06-02-2014, 07:24 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by aditya_YZF-R15 View Post

........................
awesome...not just because you could see the race up close in a circuit so sensational, but also that tuscany has the reputation of having some of the best never ending twisty roads for cornering junkies in europe apparently..hope you enjoy them corners as well..i can't :-(

I do -- however traffic is always a problem, certainly it is not as crazy as India's but it is faster and there is no guarantee that cars coming from the opposite direction will stick to their lane, so one has to be really careful when enjoying these hilly roads... The real biker's paradise is Sardinia imo, on some hlll roads you often do not meet any other vehicle for miles. Only watch out for sheeps on the road! In the end, if one really wants to enjoy corners and speed the only right place is the track.

This is from Sardinia a couple of years ago with my good old Fazer.

**aditya_YZF-R15** · 06-02-2014, 07:30 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by nirvaana View Post

How awkward would it look if Marquez wins all 18 rounds? And it's very much possible too

totally expecting it and i am already mentally assumed and prepared for it.
:\
[MENTION=38865]J4rn0[/MENTION] - that's nice mate.:-)

even with random cars coming from the opposite direction, it's still much better a fast riding condition i suppose than most of india. in the morning i guess cars and sheeps are much rarer..anyways.

**J4rn0** · 06-02-2014, 08:53 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by nirvaana View Post

How awkward would it look if Marquez wins all 18 rounds? And it's very much possible too

I would bet against that -- Marc is awesome but he is not going to win all races against Rossi and Lorenzo. Lorenzo was kind of shocked so far at Marquez' performance (just as Pedrosa who is not recovering yet); but they will be fighting back. Yamaha is also working hard to catch up and things might get a bit more difficult for Marc as the championship goes on. I would not bet against Marc winning the title again though...

**vivekvinu** · 06-02-2014, 09:42 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Yesterdays race was one of the goof race that I seen in this season. I love the races where Rossi starts frm 3rd or 4th row because we can see a gud chasing that he overtaking his opponents one by one thats a rare scene..It was a good fight b/w Lorenzo n Marq, he won the race with a narrow difference... Lorenzo he is a gud fighter... Yamaha and Ducati agreed last year that Honda is faster than them. Check any race straights and you can clearly see Marquez and Pedrosa beating the 1st guy easily... Next race in Marq's home track lets see.. Iam waiting for Assen circuit wher Rossi won first place last year.. Love you Rossi...

Rossi fan

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**nirvaana** · 06-02-2014, 10:40 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by vivekvinu View Post

Yamaha and Ducati agreed last year that Honda is faster than them. Check any race straights and you can clearly see Marquez and Pedrosa beating the 1st guy easily...

Actually Iannone's Ducati was faster than Dani's Honda on the straights

**vivekvinu** · 06-02-2014, 10:53 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by nirvaana View Post

Actually Iannone's Ducati was faster than Dani's Honda on the straights

Its depend up on the drivers also that maybe a reason for this not sure..

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**jack_daniels** · 06-03-2014, 01:36 AM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by vivekvinu View Post

Yesterdays race was one of the gud race that I seen in this season. I luv the races wher Rossi starts frm 3rd or 4th row becoz we can see a gud chasing that he overtaking his opponents one by one thats a rare scene..It was a gud fight b/w Lorenzo n Marq, he won the race with a narrow difference... Lorenzo he is a gud fighter... Yamaha and Ducati agreed last year that Honda is faster than them. Check any race straights and you can clearly see Marquez and Pedrosa beating the 1st guy easily... Next race in Marq's home track lets see.. Im waiting for Assen circuit wher Rossi won first place last year.. Luv u Rossi...

Rossi fan

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Fastest in a straightline is a Ducati. After that comes Honda then Yamaha. Then also it depends upon gearing. With tall gearing, even a Yamaha will bear a Ducati in the straights. But, then it'll lose good corner performance. Yamaha has a chassis that is built for cornering well- It's their trademark feature. That is why you see R15 with such impeccable handling. Honda has a chassis that is built for good corner entry & very fast corner exits.

While Ducati is struggling with everything due to its carbon fibre trellis frame which they've adopted from the 1980's. Riders don't get enough feel from the front-end of the bike. That's why great riders like Rossi, Crutchlow, Dovizioso are struggling after going to Ducati. When Crutchlow took the 1st Ducati test-drive, he was totally baffled as his style was not at all working with the Ducati. With every new bike, you've to change your riding style as well. This is known "Adapting" to the bike. He spent 3 yrs imitating & perfecting Jorge Lorenzo, but that style wasn't working with the Ducati. So, he said that he'll now have to start from scratch as there is no guidance or any role model for the Ducati.

While Honda & Yamaha both have the Aluminium frame which gives the riders better front & rear end feel which makes the riders more comfortable on the bike & translates into better race performance.

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**vivekvinu** · 06-03-2014, 01:48 AM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by jack_daniels View Post

Fastest in a straightline is a Ducati. After that comes Honda then Yamaha. Then also it depends upon gearing. With tall gearing, even a Yamaha will bear a Ducati in the straights. But, then it'll lose good corner performance. Yamaha has a chassis that is built for cornering well- It's their trademark feature. That is why you see R15 with such impeccable handling. Honda has a chassis that is built for good corner entry & very fast corner exits.

While Ducati is struggling with everything due to its carbon fibre trellis frame which they've adopted from the 1980's. Riders don't get enough feel from the front-end of the bike. That's why great riders like Rossi, Crutchlow, Dovizioso are struggling after going to Ducati. When Crutchlow took the 1st Ducati test-drive, he was totally baffled as his style was not at all working with the Ducati. With every new bike, you've to change your riding style as well. This is known "Adapting" to the bike. He spent 3 yrs imitating & perfecting Jorge Lorenzo, but that style wasn't working with the Ducati. So, he said that he'll now have to start from scratch as there is no guidance or any role model for the Ducati.

While Honda & Yamaha both have the Aluminium frame which gives the riders better front & rear end feel which makes the riders more comfortable on the bike & translates into better race performance.

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If you see Lorenzo was 200 times better yesterday than Marquez. But if the full throttle doesn't reach the highest at the correct gear ratio, then the rider can't do anything.. One of the main advantage of ducati is while in wet tracks ducati shows good performance than other machines...

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**J4rn0** · 06-03-2014, 05:32 AM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by jack_daniels View Post

................
While Ducati is struggling with everything due to its carbon fibre trellis frame which they've adopted from the 1980's. Riders don't get enough feel from the front-end of the bike. .....................................
While Honda & Yamaha both have the Aluminium frame which gives the riders better front & rear end feel which makes the riders more comfortable on the bike & translates into better race performance.

Sent from my Sony Z1 using Tapatalk

Just for the record -- Ducati is not using a trellis frame since years in MotoGP, and they never used a trellis frame made of carbon fiber. Ducati were the only manufacturer to use the engine as a stressed member, so they didin't have a real frame but just two sub-frames attached to the engine, one supporting the steering and the other the riders's seat. The swingarm had its pivot in the engine itself.

trellis

They used this trellis (steel) frame up to 2008 -- that means they won the title with Stoner in 2007 with the trellis half-frame, similar to what street Ducatis have to this day. That solution, albeit conceptually old, worked actually pretty well and several riders were able to win races on that trellis Ducati (not just Stoner but also Capirossi and Bayliss).

carbon fiber

Problems began to emerge in 2009 when they changed the steel trellis sub-frames with carbon fiber parts, and that (the carbon fiber half-chassis) is what Rossi inherited in 2011. During his two difficult years at Ducati, Rossi convinced the engineers to swtich to a conventional twin-spar aluminum frame - and this is what the current Ducati has, an aluminum frame similar in concept to what Honda and Yamaha use.

Ducatis' aluminum frame

But their engine is still the old design, meant to act as a stressed member and as a hub for the swingarm, so it has bigger and heavier casings than engines designed to simply sit into a conventional frame. As a result of all these problems the Ducati suffers from understeer: that means Ducati riders have to keep the bike at high leaning angles for longer to make it turn, and that eats up the tires faster and also prevents from opening the throttle early when exiting the corners. Next year's bike will have, for the first time, an engine and aluminum frame designed "for each other" on the basis of the experience of the last two years. I really hope it will work well, MotoGP needs a competitive non-Jap bike.

**kusmaker** · 06-03-2014, 02:44 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by jack_daniels View Post

Fastest in a straightline is a Ducati. After that comes Honda then Yamaha. Then also it depends upon gearing. With tall gearing, even a Yamaha will bear a Ducati in the straights. But, then it'll lose good corner performance. Yamaha has a chassis that is built for cornering well- It's their trademark feature. That is why you see R15 with such impeccable handling. Honda has a chassis that is built for good corner entry & very fast corner exits.

While Ducati is struggling with everything due to its carbon fibre trellis frame which they've adopted from the 1980's. Riders don't get enough feel from the front-end of the bike. That's why great riders like Rossi, Crutchlow, Dovizioso are struggling after going to Ducati. When Crutchlow took the 1st Ducati test-drive, he was totally baffled as his style was not at all working with the Ducati. With every new bike, you've to change your riding style as well. This is known "Adapting" to the bike. He spent 3 yrs imitating & perfecting Jorge Lorenzo, but that style wasn't working with the Ducati. So, he said that he'll now have to start from scratch as there is no guidance or any role model for the Ducati.

While Honda & Yamaha both have the Aluminium frame which gives the riders better front & rear end feel which makes the riders more comfortable on the bike & translates into better race performance.

Sent from my Sony Z1 using Tapatalk

Yamaha has got razor sharp chassis but the peak power is letting them down, mugello is a very fast circuit particularly that back straight and it's very difficult to beat Honda in the straights that 93 just eats up the distance and passed Jorge as if he was standing still.

**J4rn0** · 06-03-2014, 05:53 PM

Re: MotoGP 2014 Season - Updates

Originally posted by kusmaker View Post

Yamaha has got razor sharp chassis but the peak power is letting them down, mugello is a very fast circuit particularly that back straight and it's very difficult to beat Honda in the straights that 93 just eats up the distance and passed Jorge as if he was standing still.

The average top speed in this GP by Lorenzo has been 333 Kmh, while Marquez clocked an average top speed of 337.4. If you consider also Valentino, who had an average top speed of 338.5 on the same Yamaha as Jorge's, you can see it was mainly a result of tall gear choices and slipstreaming. An area where the Honda can use its power better than the Yamaha is in corner exit, the Hondas accelerate better out of the corners but there it is mainly a matter of electronics, frame efficiency and rider's skill in getting the bike up early, since no MotoGP bike can put all their power to the ground when exiting corners. And anyway Pedrosa who is a great rider cannot even stay close to Marquez on the same bike, -- without Marquez we would now be speaking of Yamaha as the best bike, probably. HOnda has something more apparently, but Marc Marquez is making the difference there, no doubt about this.

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