Hi guys,
This "camshaft noise" things worries me a bit!
Now that I have received the parts I needed thanks to one of the xbhp forum members here, essentially the starter clutch plus a few secondary gears and bearings just for safety, I have given my bike to my usual mechanic, with also the task to install Joel's camshaft.
With my 205cc. big bore (to be precise), one millimeter larger radius valves, reworked head, 29mm. CV carb and K&N filter, special S.S. exhaust and (noisy!) Arrow muffler and 15 teeth front sprocket, I already have excellent power and torque all the way to 9k rpm (and over...!) without any flat spot just like a good, sufficiently powerful (for Vietnam...!) 1/2 sport, 1/2 cruise bike and hit rather easily 125 kmh. seated, 135 crouched. On top of RC "race" clutch springs, power ad torque are such that I had to add one more steel plate in the clutch to compress the springs that bit further, otherwise clutch was slipping! Curious to compare with much more "hot-rodded" Mik's bike though, with his much bigger valves and carb!
Now, I am really wondering about the gain the RC camshaft will effectively give. Wondering too if this camshaft might not be just a "lemon"!!??!?
So, to those who have fitted this camshaft, besides the negative points like "noise" and "flat spots", what are really the gains ???

How have you guys (with new cams) been running in your cams?
I hope you havn't been letting the engine idle for long periods of time when you first install it.
That is THE WORST thing you can do.

It doesn't matter the "size" of the cam you install. It shouldn't be making sounds. the only sound you should be getting is a more lumpy idle.

If you are getting a cam (regardless if its a replacement or performance) you need to use assembly lube on the cam, (similar to the type you would use on shell bearings)
Also make sure your cam followers are new, No point using your old 15k kms followers on a brand new cam, Unless you want to run into problems down the track.

Take a read of the links below.
They all state to run the cam from 1500rpm - 3000rpm.
Norvil Motorcycles - Tech Talk
Flat tappet cam 'break in' - Kelford Cams
HotCams Stage 1 Install by Little Sahara Power Sports, LLC

The POWERHOUSE Fz18

^^^ have been running a revised cam for more than 12,000 kms (though it is on an R15). There is a difference, no doubt about it. The midrange 4,000 - 7,000 is very pronounced. It's good and works as advertised.

Along with the cam, everything was changed, including rocker arms, valves, valve springs (the whole works). I have not faced any problems with the assembly so far. Other than the FFE, one would be hard pressed to find any other noise in the engine to distinguish the engine from a stock engine.

As for hard data; during trial runs we were able to achieve a 0 - 100 kmph in 9.5 seconds (reported stock figures are between 13.5 to 14 seconds). Trials were done with a full tank of gas and a full wet weight of 130 kgs. Any which way you look at it, the difference is of 4 seconds vis-a-vis stock. That is considerable difference and cannot be attributed only to big bore and FFE. Also the bike was running very very rich. Fine tuning the fuelling should give at least another 0.5 second out of the setup. The time runs were done using a GTech data logger so are reasonably accurate.

In my case, i have requested rider abhimanyu31 to kindly help me out during the installation of the RC kits. So if need it be i shall replace whatever that he may feel is needed or as a precautionary measure i should ensure tht it is replaced without a question. The good thing is, all the parts of FZ are zillion times cheaper then that of R15, including the valves, rocker arms etc. you name all are on the cheaper side so i am hoping it will not make a huge hole in my wallet.

Being a habitual blabberer, i shall document the whole process with pics and any technical details abhimanyu31 and the mechanic provides me with. I hope the specs can be matched/cross checked by N-o-v-i-c-e and all others looking for answers/following this thread.

As always the impatient wait is still on regarding the pending parts.

Cheers,

Hi Luke, noise is definitely there, but i cant comment on the flat spots coz i fit the 29mm CV carb recently. My mechanic has tuned it twice.
So as of now like you, i am also confused as to whether the issue relates to the carb or the cam.

But low end has improved immensely and thats 100% true for a fact.
Sorry i cant answer this definitively now as i am down with a serious health condition.
It will take some time for me to get better and be back to the biking scene.

Hi Mik, the bike started immediately after the cam installation and i went for an hour's ride after that.
Bike was definitely not kept idling longer than half a minute. So i think i need to inspect the build all over again after i know what to look for.

Abhimanyu, was the engine head ported before the installation of the cam?
That's some serious reduction in timing man. I hope if i could reduce half of that time from my ride(being an FZ).

I will definitely help in cross checking from whatever i know of the build. And maybe we would be getting some answers soon.

cheers...

Little suggestion




hello Shiv . I am the very same guy from the RnD motovil . . You should not use a slim ballast because it provides larger start-up current to the HID bulbs , hence marginally shortens it's life . Rohit said me that your mechanic maid you to install that ,but I recommend to use that fat ballast. & I am glad to see that you are like our works .

List of parts replacement for the heart operation

@Devraj: Will send you a PM over the same later.



PARTS LIST

@All: Today me and rider abhimanyu31 went to the SVC to get a periodic maintenance of abhimanyu's ride done. I guess i will stop blabbering on this one and give abhimanyu31 a chance to explain things from his perspective in his respective thread on R16.

Anyways, while both of us waited to get the work done, we started discussing on the plan of my build and also what parts should i look to replace/overhaul now that my ride has already crossed 24k kms. As reported by rider N-o-v-i-c-e and Jonahmano, both of them are witnessing a slight whirring or high pitched sound from their respective bikes and both of them suspect the camshaft to be the one making the noise. Though it poses no threat whatsoever to the kit or to the ride, i decided it was best to lay down my concerns in front of an experienced senior rider and then take call on what would be the correct and optimum build plan workflow and have a trouble free experience with my kit: the future souped up FZ-X .

abhimanyu31 suggested that since, most of the stock parts in the engine have already hit near about 25k kms so they have mated perfectly with the stock block and other moving parts in it. Thus, it would be wise to replace them along with the RC kits and then do the run-in so with newer internals they freshly mate with the new found tolerences. Now bear with me, all this may sound ridiculous and unnecessary but after riding his insane R16 with absolutely no noise, vibration or any sorts of lag in power or FE made me change my mind. Abhimanyu's ride has a high lift cam and it doesn't make any noise whatsoever. Infact when it comes to noise, his ride is completely indistinguishable from stock!! And after clocking over 12,000 kms on his RC BB kit and also all the internals in pristine condition, i was truely impressed.

Logically speaking, run-in in a true sense is mating of the parts of the engine internals. So if we are going for a build/re-build then all these parts from an engineering perspective should be replaced as now with high tolerence, higher compression and slightly higher stress levels to the engine parts, the old ones may or may not be able to handle the add on power. I guess with the fresh run-in with a new engine head, BB kit, volumetric porting for better flow of gases and other magical Jhing Bang stuff done by the dark arts master, Joel RC it makes sense to go for such replacements.

Therefore, i decided that since, i am in a way going for a rebuild, lets do the deed and also ensure that proper care has been taken in each and every step so i don't get haggled for atleast another 30,000 kms. Since, the whole build work will be supervised by him, until my rider mate abhimanyu31 is fully satisfied i guess i have no choice but to accept his requests. He is obsessed with precision and perfection when it comes to a build and especially related to a bike!! Hell i am glad.. I believe MadMik will also agree with abhimanyu31 on the same when it comes to an engine re-build.

Anyways, below are the list of parts which i shall get replaced when the engine build along with RC parts takes place:

UPDATE: PRICE OF THE PARTS

1) Inner camshaft bearing: 1 no. = Rs. 127/-
2) Inlet Valve: 1 no. = Rs. 121/-
3) Exhaust Valve: 1 no. = Rs. 225/-
4) Valve Springs: 2 nos. = Rs. 112/
5) Valve Rocker Arms: 2 nos. = Rs. 42/-
6) Valve Cotter: 4 nos. = Rs. 84/-
7) Retainer Valve Springs: 2 nos. = Rs. 34/-
8) Inner Valve Springs: 2 nos. = Rs. 114/-
9) Valve Seats:2 nos. = Rs. 36/-
10) Shaft Rocker: 2 nos. = Rs. 478/-
11) O Ring: 1 no. = Rs. 5/-
12) Pin Dowel: 1 no. = Rs. 15/-
13) Clutch Plates: set of 4 nos. = Rs. 650/-
14) Clutch Pressure Plate:
15) Clutch return Spring:
16) Circlip:
17) Decompression Assembly: 1 no. = Rs. 300/-
18) Cylinder head Gasket: 1 no. = Rs. 38/-
19) Engine paper gasket side: 1 no. = Rs. 17/-
20) Engine Head Cover gasket: 1 no. = Rs. 59/-
21) Screw Valve Adjuster: 2 nos. = Rs. 140/-
22) Gasket: 1 no. = Rs. 17/-
23) Valve Stem Seals: 2 nos. = Rs. 44/-
24) Valve Nut: 2 nos. = Rs. 24/-
25) New stock FZ Engine Head: 1 No. = Rs. 3600/-

I opted for a new FZ stock engine head to retain the stock parts with me should i ever decide to revert to stock bike config or when selling her off in the long run.

I am also attaching a screen shot with parts highligted inside the red markers from the service manual so both Noobs and other interested riders can get a better idea about the parts that i intend to replace :



Pic 1: Engine Head Assembly




Pic 2: Camshaft Assembly



Pic 3: Valves Assembly:



Pic 4: Clutch Assembly


i will update the parts price individually later in this post once, i get hold of them. After deciding list of parts to be replaced with abhimanyu31, I annoyed the good folks at the Kamla Yamaha reception & billing to ensure that the parts are in stock. The initial estimate for all of these kits was ridiculously cheap. Around 3-3.5k INR!! Lets not forget an R15 with all such changes will set you back by a good 8-10k INR easily may be even higher!!


SIMOTA AIR FILTER

I believe there is some slight confusion going on amongst riders regarding the SIMOTA stock replacement air filter maintenance and other details, provided by Joel RC. It is indeed an oil based type and is not dry type and does require oiling as mentioned in one of my earlier posts on this thread. Simota by itself provides oiling kits for the same.

For those who are disbelievers regarding the cleaning interval, please find below the amount of dust and dirt material clogging up the air filter on abhimanyu31's ride in just under 2,000 kms, in Mumbai:



Pic 5: Simota air filter in 2,000 kms



Pic 6: angled view of the Simota Air Filter.

The images above clearly show the amount of dust that the air filter has to block especially in dirty and dusty environment, especially in cities like Mumbai. So an advice to all riders having this type of air filter, ensure that you follow the clean up mentioned on this thread, will help you keep things in order and your bike breathing in air better.


I decided to give my ride a small gift so got hold of the stock Yamaha tank pad for INR 200 bucks:



Pic 7: tank pad


More reports soon..


Cheers,

Hi Shv18

Thanks for the air filter pictures but my ride after 3000 km couldn't see any dust particles just as seen in the picture. Anyways I will once again check whether I need to clean the air-filter. As you see in the pictures, the airfilter is too hollow and after washing it with water and drying and then while adding engine oil, how can we reach the deep portion. It's so hollow that you even can't insert your little finger into it. In simota site they use the spray but here when we use fresh engine oil, how are you going to suggest apply oil on the airfilter. Thanks for your suggestions in advance. How do you say how much to be applied on the air filter, I mean just dip your finger in the oil and then apply? Can you be bit more specific.

You don't wash reusable filter in "water"
How does water wash away oil? It doesn't. you need a detergent to break down the oil and so on.

you need to get something like this.


The cleaning solution and the oil.
Don't use clothes washing powder as it doesn't work, Nor petrol, diesel etc. Use the proper cleaning product.
Also if you do need to get inside the valleys of the filter element a soft bristled paintbrush can be used. Just don't go rubbing the cotton with a wire brush unless you want to tear it.
Pour the cleaner directly onto the filters "clean" side, so it pushes out the dirt, instead of trying to force it through the cotton fibers. If your container is large enough you can wash the filter in it and save the left over solution in a clearly marked/labled bottle (don't want it getting mistaken as a food/drink container)

It doesn't matter what brand you end up getting, I've got a DNA filter cleaner kit and use it on my K&N's. Its the same.

As for oiling, I just run a bead/line along the top of each fold (the peaks) and let the oil wick its way down to the valleys. Don't over oil, don't keep oiling until the oil reaches the valleys, By then its too late. Just a quick run down each peak is all you need. There will be a color change, usually darker. I oil the outside as I have a conical filter and its easier to just oil the outside.

Thats quite a list you got there. I didnt put in a new valve assembly unit depicted by your third pic. Just the new valves.

Maybe i too need to change all those parts soon. I am just getting impatient as i am not able to ride coz of the illness.

@abhimanyu31 -
You missed my earlier post as to whether you ported the engine before installing the high lift cam?

And do you think my ride's poor mid range can be attributed to the noise emanating from the tappets even with the suggested valve clearances.
I know you could tell it only after looking at my ride but could it be a reason anyway?

@MadMik.
As per your saying we should be oiling the peak on the clean side and let it reach the dirty side peak. right?

The POWERHOUSE Fz18

^^^ yes it is ported. It was a new head which Joel had sourced, ported and shipped to me. One thing to note is that it's not necessary that a head that flows efficiently at upper end, flows well in the low/ midrange. I doubt that the noise is resulting in poor mid range. I suggest that you open the head and check out the condition of the components.

Yes, i think i will need to open the head for inspection of the components. Will have to search for a mechanic with a sound mind.
Would you be kind enough to tell me what all you think i should check out definitely. Thanks for your suggestion.

cheers...

Parts purchased so far for the REBUILD!

Hi All,

I managed to get the first batch of the parts that i intend to replace for the fresh run-in with the 182cc RC Big Bore Kit and the mild lift camshaft. Below are some of the images that i am sharing with you all. Please bear in mind that all the parts are genuine and have been bought from the Kamla Yamaha SVC, Sewree, Mumbai:



Pic 1: Head Cover Gasket (Part No. 21C-E1193-00)



Pic 2: Cylinder Head gasket (Part No. 54B-E1181-00)



Pic 3: Lower Paper Gasket (Part No. 21C-E1351-00) and Side Cover gasket (Part No. 21C-E2435-00)



Pic 4: Valve Springs (Part No. 21C-E113-00)



Pic 5: Inlet (Part No. 54B-E2111-00) & Exhaust (Part No. 54B-E2121-00) Valves



Pic 6: Valve Seats (Part No. 21C-E2126-00)



Pic 7: Retainer, Valve Springs (Part No. 21C-E2117-00)



Pic 8: Valve, Adjusting Screw (Part No. 21C-12159-00)



Pic 9: Valve Adjusting Nut (Part No. 90170-06128)



Pic 10: Pin Dowel and Seal (Part No. 9361216254)



Pic 11: Inner Camshaft Bearing (Part No. 93306-002Y1)

UPDATED:





Pic 12 & 13: Valve Rocker Arms (Part No. 21C-E2151-00)



Pic 14: Shaft Rocker pins (part No. 21C-E2156-00)



Pic 15: All the new stock components clubbed together in a single pic along with Bajaj Jet Holder Kit as a back up for tuning the carb

As per my conversation with the SVC head, they will do an inspection of the clutch set up once and then let me know if i need to replace any of that at all or else i can readily procure it from their sales desk as they usually keep a big stock of FZ clutch plates. Just so you know NOOBS current R15 V2.0 and FZ sare the same 4 clutch and pressure plates unlike the older gen P series R15 V 1.0 which had a total of 5 nos. of clutch & pressure plates.

In the mean time Joel, RC sent me a mail that he is prepping the kit and hopefully i should receive it soon in 10-15 days. The ported FZ Engine Head and the 29mm CV Carb pre-jetted by RC. Just for safety i have also requested abhimannyu31 to help me identify a whole set of jet sizes kit should for any reason the jet sizes sent from RC are not enough to handle the sea level conditions here in Mumbai. Man now i am getting impatient!!


Will keep you all posted.


Cheers,

The POWERHOUSE Fz18

As a general yard stick all moving parts should be checked. I would recommend that you have a set of measuring instruments handy. Check the condition of rocker arms, bearings, and the cam. I don't know the standard dimensions for FZ, so check in the service manual. Another thing that I would check is the condition of the rocker shaft.

Hi,

Are you dead sure of that?

On my bike, which is nicely "boosted" compared to stock, not only did I have to install RC "race" springs, which are with a bigger wire than the stock ones, but even add one steel plate to give even more pressure because the clutch was still slipping!

From Joel: The even mildly souped FZ-18 are "limit" with the stock springs. Just before the ride he did on Rohan's (is that the right name??) bike where you can see the bike reaching 135kmh on the meter (on youtube), which bike has a BB kit, head works, and mild lift cam (and little else, I do not remember), he had to change the clutch plates, although in good condition as the poor clutch was slipping miserably. Joel then informed me that while the stock FZ-16 clutch plates were not able to stand much power, the R-15 clutch plates, even when boosted by Joel, were able to do some 20/ 25,000 km.....and that I should try to get R-15 plates post 2011 which can be fitted on the FZ-16.!

Unless Joel does not know what he is talking about, which I doubt, it seems that, although looking similar and in the same number, the FZ-16 and R-15 clutch plates are two very different animals!

Also: who has noticed that the "outside" friction plates have a different serial number than the two inside ones?...!!??!?