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Dear sooraj, electricity is a flow of electrons.To make some thing to move we have to apply a force. w.r.t a source of electrical energy we call it e.m.f(electro motive force) whose unit is volt.the unit of pot. diff. is also volt.In our alternator there are many poles. The winding is done one clock vice the next is done anti clock vice. This is known as series winding and the voltage induced in poles is added up.Now the voltage induced is directly proportional to the RPM and the no of turns of winding and limited by the magnetic strength(no.of flux lines).we work our bikes from 1k to 10k RPM. If winding is designed for 12v at 1k the voltage at 10kwill be more than 40 volts.Originally posted by sooraj_vs View PostYes. Thats what I too think and observed.
A few pages back, there was a post in which 'ekm_biker' said that current is limited due to load and not by the regulator, so higher wattage will draw more current and glow brighter.
@ ekm_biker,
sir, could you throw some light into the matter..?
which will spoil our loads.Our bikes voltage reaches the needed limit at about 2to 2.5 k RPM.so the voltage induced after this is not needed and the regulator bleeds it to gnd.(similar to the over flow in a over head water tank.). The sensing of this required voltage is done by a zener diode connected in reverse bias after the set voltage is reached zener diode will start to conduct and give the required gate voltage for thyristor(SCR) to conduct and regulates the voltage.Next is our bulb More the wattage lesser is its resistance so more current( no. of electrons) can flow which also regulates the voltage ( pot. diff.) as the capacity of alternator( watts)is fixed. Remember wattage= volts x current. which shows as you increase the current voltage reduces.
Now our alternator is having two branches one for lighting and the second for charging of the battery .first is 12v and 2nd is around <15v(because of the internal resistance of the battery)when fully charged the battery voltage(e.m.f)becomes 6(cells)x2.2(vmax)=13.2volts. Here also voltage is regulated but in DC at 13.2 volts and AC at 15v
Now sibun told after 2k Rpm the load is changed from battery. The theory is when there are two sources of electrical energy and a common load , the load is shared by the two sources in the ratio of their capacity to deliver.As the capacity of the alternator is more above 2k RPM.the load current is supplied by alternator.
In electricity total energy(max) transfered is only half of the capacity and this happens when the impedance of the source = the impedance of the load.This is why some people when they simply put a 55/60 w bulb it does not give good illumination. as their alternator is little weak
what you can try is to charge your magnet. Luckily for me it is strong.Otherwise rewinding is the only way.
@ sibun your opinion of lifting the ground off the windings and joining them as a single coil.(increase in voltage,double will result) is wastage of energy as it will get bypassed ,it will dissipate as heat(fear ape RR will stand this voltage). If you want to use Ape RR to make full DC.you have to rewind with 19 swg. enameled copper wire. I have taken to under stand that our windings are 21 swg.As 19 swg is fatter no of turns on a pole will be reduced so all the poles are wound as a single coil to get the required (turns)voltage.19 swg is used as the full load (lighting & charging)has to be carried by single coil . In stock system this is shared by two branches."work for cause n not for applause". "live life 2 express n not 2 impress" ."dont strive to make ur presences noticed, just make ur absence felt".
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That was one hall of a post. Never expected this muchOriginally posted by ekm-biker View PostDear sooraj, electricity is a flow of electrons.To make some thing to move we have to apply a force. w.r.t a source of electrical energy we call it e.m.f(electro motive force) whose unit is volt.the unit of pot. diff. is also volt.In our alternator there are many poles. The winding is done one clock vice the next is done anti clock vice. This is known as series winding and the voltage induced in poles is added up.Now the voltage induced is directly proportional to the RPM and the no of turns of winding and limited by the magnetic strength(no.of flux lines).we work our bikes from 1k to 10k RPM. If winding is designed for 12v at 1k the voltage at 10kwill be more than 40 volts.
which will spoil our loads.Our bikes voltage reaches the needed limit at about 2to 2.5 k RPM.so the voltage induced after this is not needed and the regulator bleeds it to gnd.(similar to the over flow in a over head water tank.). The sensing of this required voltage is done by a zener diode connected in reverse bias after the set voltage is reached zener diode will start to conduct and give the required gate voltage for thyristor(SCR) to conduct and regulates the voltage.Next is our bulb More the wattage lesser is its resistance so more current( no. of electrons) can flow which also regulates the voltage ( pot. diff.) as the capacity of alternator( watts)is fixed. Remember wattage= volts x current. which shows as you increase the current voltage reduces.
Now our alternator is having two branches one for lighting and the second for charging of the battery .first is 12v and 2nd is around <15v(because of the internal resistance of the battery)when fully charged the battery voltage(e.m.f)becomes 6(cells)x2.2(vmax)=13.2volts. Here also voltage is regulated but in DC at 13.2 volts and AC at 15v
Now sibun told after 2k Rpm the load is changed from battery. The theory is when there are two sources of electrical energy and a common load , the load is shared by the two sources in the ratio of their capacity to deliver.As the capacity of the alternator is more above 2k RPM.the load current is supplied by alternator.
In electricity total energy(max) transfered is only half of the capacity and this happens when the impedance of the source = the impedance of the load.This is why some people when they simply put a 55/60 w bulb it does not give good illumination. as their alternator is little weak
what you can try is to charge your magnet. Luckily for me it is strong.Otherwise rewinding is the only way.
@ sibun your opinion of lifting the ground off the windings and joining them as a single coil.(increase in voltage,double will result) is wastage of energy as it will get bypassed ,it will dissipate as heat(fear ape RR will stand this voltage). If you want to use Ape RR to make full DC.you have to rewind with 19 swg. enameled copper wire. I have taken to under stand that our windings are 21 swg.As 19 swg is fatter no of turns on a pole will be reduced so all the poles are wound as a single coil to get the required (turns)voltage.19 swg is used as the full load (lighting & charging)has to be carried by single coil . In stock system this is shared by two branches.
BTW, you know what, I went to a technical school, where studied electrical and electronics as main papers for 5 years. All this stuff I studied there ( but never really got fully interested
)
I have a small doubt about the bold part.
Which are the two sources of emf..? AFAIK, head light is powered from the coil alone. Isn't it..?MOTORCYCLING IS AS MUCH ART AS IT IS SCIENCE
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Yes SAM pistons are good and most lathe use it. But in your case you do not require 0.50 size. You will need 0.25 size(first oversize). Regarding mechanics contact senior bhpian who are in chennai like PSR sir or some one else who know good mechanics. My opinion is do not rebore as it depends on the skill of lathe operator. Just change to new bore kit.Originally posted by sarbanoxley View PostToday only i checked my engine oil level and in just 500kms it has gone below the minimum mark - so drained it hot and measured it - i poured 900ml and only 550ml left i have treavelled like this at constant 6K RPM yesterday for like 200+Kms then how come my engine didnt seize guys ?
.
Only had some old 20W 50 oil so poured that as a stop gap measure - fearing the engine might seize i emptied the whole bottle - all 1L of it and took it for a small spin and BAAM the compression goes - the kicker felt free - so push started it in 1 st gear - after a couple of tries it came back to life but the engine was feeling hotter than normal for some reason .
I need to get the bore job done quickly now
@sinbun one mech in chennai told me SAM pistons are good is that correct ? he also said i can rebore to a over sized piston 0.5mm - he showed me a pulsar 200CC bore that he rebored that day
He also said the head work is needed along with the rebore work - is that true ? he is quoting Rs 2700 for the entire job .
also wont the bore would have got damaged yesterday as my bike was only riding on just 550ml of oil ? is it now advisable to change the entire kit or i can look into re boring even now?
all i want is a trouble free ride for the next 40K
UPDATE : with he 20W 50 oil the bike managed to hit 95Km/hr only with a pillion - combined weight of 145Kgs ...earlier it would cross 100Km/hr .
Rs.2700 is more.
0.25 size piston cost-Rs.650
Valve oil seal, o-rings, packings- Rs. 200
Boring- Rs.200
Mechanic charges- Rs. 350( i do not know because in my bike i do it or if my mechanic does it he takes only Rs.100 that too if i force him).
Originally posted by ekm-biker View PostDear sooraj, electricity is a flow of electrons.To make some thing to move we have to apply a force. w.r.t a source of electrical energy we call it e.m.f(electro motive force) whose unit is volt.the unit of pot. diff. is also volt.In our alternator there are many poles. The winding is done one clock vice the next is done anti clock vice. This is known as series winding and the voltage induced in poles is added up.Now the voltage induced is directly proportional to the RPM and the no of turns of winding and limited by the magnetic strength(no.of flux lines).we work our bikes from 1k to 10k RPM. If winding is designed for 12v at 1k the voltage at 10kwill be more than 40 volts.
which will spoil our loads.Our bikes voltage reaches the needed limit at about 2to 2.5 k RPM.so the voltage induced after this is not needed and the regulator bleeds it to gnd.(similar to the over flow in a over head water tank.). The sensing of this required voltage is done by a zener diode connected in reverse bias after the set voltage is reached zener diode will start to conduct and give the required gate voltage for thyristor(SCR) to conduct and regulates the voltage.Next is our bulb More the wattage lesser is its resistance so more current( no. of electrons) can flow which also regulates the voltage ( pot. diff.) as the capacity of alternator( watts)is fixed. Remember wattage= volts x current. which shows as you increase the current voltage reduces.
Now our alternator is having two branches one for lighting and the second for charging of the battery .first is 12v and 2nd is around <15v(because of the internal resistance of the battery)when fully charged the battery voltage(e.m.f)becomes 6(cells)x2.2(vmax)=13.2volts. Here also voltage is regulated but in DC at 13.2 volts and AC at 15v
Now sibun told after 2k Rpm the load is changed from battery. The theory is when there are two sources of electrical energy and a common load , the load is shared by the two sources in the ratio of their capacity to deliver.As the capacity of the alternator is more above 2k RPM.the load current is supplied by alternator.
In electricity total energy(max) transfered is only half of the capacity and this happens when the impedance of the source = the impedance of the load.This is why some people when they simply put a 55/60 w bulb it does not give good illumination. as their alternator is little weak
what you can try is to charge your magnet. Luckily for me it is strong.Otherwise rewinding is the only way.
@ sibun your opinion of lifting the ground off the windings and joining them as a single coil.(increase in voltage,double will result) is wastage of energy as it will get bypassed ,it will dissipate as heat(fear ape RR will stand this voltage). If you want to use Ape RR to make full DC.you have to rewind with 19 swg. enameled copper wire. I have taken to under stand that our windings are 21 swg.As 19 swg is fatter no of turns on a pole will be reduced so all the poles are wound as a single coil to get the required (turns)voltage.19 swg is used as the full load (lighting & charging)has to be carried by single coil . In stock system this is shared by two branches.For both of your above query the answer is see my post on Bike electrical in this thread.Originally posted by sooraj_vs View PostThat was nice
Thank you.
But one more thing I need to clarify.
As some one said, I tried keeping the high/low switch in the mid position, and both filaments were glowing. But they were not drawing full power, and the net out put was just same as one filament working alone.
Why does this happen..?
I have told that in magnet the coils are split to feed AC and DC of electrical of bike.Depending on the requirement of AC and DC the coils are divided.
In our extreme/hunk except headlight everything else is in DC. So the load on DC is more. Our headlight is 35 W so company must split the ac and dc suitably from 140 w coil.
Our coil is 8 poles. So the total coil produces 140 watt. Out of this suppose 40 w is supplied to AC line so company must separate 40 Watt from source itself(coil). So what it did was it grounded the coil after 2 or max 3 poles(i have not opened new extreme coil). So the wire end will supply positive and the ground end is negative. The other 5 poles will start with ground from here and the other end will be connected to RR unit.
So when you are keeping the dipper switch in mid position you are drawing power from AC circuit. So you are trying to pull power from those 3 coils and rest 5 coils for DC circuit are not used. But when you are using dipper switch and pass switch then you are using both AC coil and DC coil or in effect all eight poles. So your bulb glows bright.
By de-soldering the ground and joining the ends, we are not increasing the voltage but we are bringing in effect all the eight coils. So if you draw 10W or 60W current is supplied by all the poles. Voltage will not increase much but the load factor will increase as all poles are working together unlike in OE set-up where AC and DC coils are working separately.
This also verifies that avenger coil cannot be used because AC circuit is not designed keeping 60 watt in mind. So for lighting more light you have to bring more poles into action.
Although 19 SWG wire is beneficial but already our alternator is 140 watts. So no need of rewinding. But if you want more power like 160 or 180 watts then rewinding is beneficial.Photo of my joy- http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/854067-post963.html-3.88 lac km cont....Ownership review of my joy- http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/832255-post608.html- slowly updating as and when getting time. HERO HONDA CBZ EXTREME(2011) - 47K KM AND COUNTINGhttp://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tml#post904152-carb tuning guide
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Yes, it is a DIY.Originally posted by sooraj_vs View PostCan anyone tell me the how to replace the head light bulb..? Is it possible to DIY it..?
You'll need to remove the 2 screws on the outside sides near the top of the mask. Then 2 more to remove the plastic add-ons on the sides on the inside. Then 2 bolts which will be at an angle when viewed after crouching on the side of the bike in front of the headlamp. You WILL need a T-Rod for this. Remove them all. Then apply some force and pull the part of the headlamp close to where you removed the first 2 screws from. Don't worry, your headlamp will not break. Just release it from a slot and then the other side will come off too. Look at the inside and disconnect the connector to the bulb, now you will also find something like a complicated safety pin holding the bulb right. Release the pin and remove the bulb inside and replace with desired bulb and do the reverse to fix the headlamp back.
I'm sorry if I haven't explained it properly, but hope you understand.
Now 2 questions:
- The throw of the light is not symmetrical. Meaning, there seems to be light on the left side than the left. Why is that? I don't remember if that it was initially but it more clearly visible now.
- My bike was dropped by a prick when it was parked. Now imagine you are sitting on your vehicle, to lock your handle, you either move the handle fully left, ie. The right mirror is farther away from you or you move it fully right, ie. The left mirror is farther away. Now, the problem is, when the handle is fully left, I need to move it very slightly away from myself for the handle lock to slot into place. And when the handle is fully right, I need to pull it a little closer to allow the handle lock to slot into place. It's not a big issue, but an issue I'd like to fix. Any inputs?
Last edited by ashwin.terminator; 08-19-2012, 11:16 PM.Hero Honda Hunk 2011, RC'ed, DC'ed, MC'ed! :P
There's fine line between genius and madness. Don't cross it!
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Look up.Originally posted by sooraj_vs View PostAnybody on this..?
Hero Honda Hunk 2011, RC'ed, DC'ed, MC'ed! :P
There's fine line between genius and madness. Don't cross it!
Hero Spare Prices Catalog
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Yes bro,its a simple DIY. Ashwin has already mentioned the process...Originally posted by sooraj_vs View PostCan anyone tell me the how to replace the head light bulb..? Is it possible to DIY it..?
Same is with me.i guess its default thing.Originally posted by ashwin.terminator View Post- My bike was dropped by a prick when it was parked. Now imagine you are sitting on your vehicle, to lock your handle, you either move the handle fully left, ie. The right mirror is farther away from you or you move it fully right, ie. The left mirror is farther away. Now, the problem is, when the handle is fully left, I need to move it very slightly away from myself for the handle lock to slot into place. And when the handle is fully right, I need to pull it a little closer to allow the handle lock to slot into place. It's not a big issue, but an issue I'd like to fix. Any inputs?
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So the price he quotes was a ripoffOriginally posted by sibun View PostYes SAM pistons are good and most lathe use it. But in your case you do not require 0.50 size. You will need 0.25 size(first oversize). Regarding mechanics contact senior bhpian who are in chennai like PSR sir or some one else who know good mechanics. My opinion is do not rebore as it depends on the skill of lathe operator. Just change to new bore kit.
Rs.2700 is more.
0.25 size piston cost-Rs.650
Valve oil seal, o-rings, packings- Rs. 200
Boring- Rs.200
Mechanic charges- Rs. 350( i do not know because in my bike i do it or if my mechanic does it he takes only Rs.100 that too if i force him).
.
One more thing - how to find out if your clutch plate needs replacement in xtreme ? also i think you mentioned we can get mikino pre soaked clutch plates in the market sometime back ...does this mikino company have clutch plates for the Xtreme ?
Pmed PSR sir for the mechanic
Last edited by sarbanoxley; 08-19-2012, 11:55 PM.
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But it was fine for me before the drop. I could lock it at the extreme positions without having to move the handlebar at all!Originally posted by itssaurabh.negi View Post
Same is with me.i guess its default thing.
Hero Honda Hunk 2011, RC'ed, DC'ed, MC'ed! :P
There's fine line between genius and madness. Don't cross it!
Hero Spare Prices Catalog
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Water will enter its normal, but theres a cavity around the tank window which helps in draining it. Just check whether the drain pipe is'nt blocked. Once mine was blocked and water entered my tank. The pipe was pinched cause once which removing the tank, I didnt diconnect the pipe, and hence while putting it back, it got pinched.Motorcycling Experience:
2000 ~ 2017 Y2K Kinetic Zoom (Disposed at 15k)
2011 ~ 2015 Hero Honda Karizma R (Sold at 56.5k)
2013 ~ 2014 Bajaj Discover 100 4G (Sold at 16.5k)
2015 ~ 2017 TVS Wego (Totaled at 18k)
2015 - Bajaj Pulsar 220F (Currently 31k) < Garage Queen!
2017 - Bajaj CT100B (Currently 21k) < 'Golden Quadrilateral' Runner!
The Ride was Good, but Life is short, spend it Wisely!
Adios Comrades!
A.P. 2018
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my 4th and 5th service i gave my bike to another SVC (old HH DEALER) Ancy motors, Nalanchira , Trivandrum. AT MY 6TH serivce as usual i went there for service and i told that there is vibration and some hard sound from engine evven at low speed and i think its some bearing problem i need to get it ready with my warranty. he said me to start the bike and race the engine and he said its normal. I said what normal even the bike didnt crossed 12k kms or one year. He said he cant do it in warranty and i said i had taken extended warranty. he said thats not useful and cant accept there. after all that i checked my svc book there is no seal. so i asked him about sealing my 2 receipts he said he had no seal. before gaving my bike there i asked him that is it Authorised and can i done my remaining free service there. He said a Big Yes its Authorised.. after i came to know its not authorized and its too late. today i am going to see the Head office guys about my warranty. I dont know they can understand my situation.sigpic
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@ sibun & ekm_biker
U guys are pouring in loads of information into this thread.
So here is my next noob querry
As said by sibun, pulling the pass switch along with low beam brings all the 8 poles into action. So why cant we do this..?
Provide an additional wiring from the battery to the high beam filament through a separate switch. This way, we can use 35W in low RPM city riding and 70W on the highway. Current drawn from the battery will be comolemented by the remaining 8 poles.
What do you say..?Last edited by sooraj_vs; 08-20-2012, 10:53 AM.MOTORCYCLING IS AS MUCH ART AS IT IS SCIENCE
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