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**theguitarfreak** · 05-07-2010, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by abbydance4life View Post

Hey guys, i am planning to buy new bike this month.
Have heard good things about apache rtr 180 bike, so i went for test ride of Apache rtr 180. Sitting posture, exhaust note and braking was good. But i was disappointed by its pick up, it was better by little margin from my Yamaha rx 135, may be bike was not tuned for performance. But that white color was looking awesome.
I asked them can i get my bike on 21st of this month, they told me yes i can, they told me i will get the one which i took for test ride, i told them how can they give me bike which is being used by everyone for test ride.... silly people. Than they told me ok they will let me know by day after tomorrow when can i get new RTR 180.
Than i went to test ride for p220 but that was not on road, so was not able to figure out about its handling capability. Regarding mileage both bikes gives between 40 - 45, that is what show room guys told me, would also like to hear from you guys.

Can you guys tell me which one will be a better option and more fun to ride. What are the pros and cons of both bikes. Price difference between the two will be around 2K, as i will be replacing the stock tyres of apache with nylo zapper FS and S.

Thanks

Well i think this question is more apt at the What Bike thread. Anyways, comparing P220 with an RTR180 these are the pros and cons that they have:

1. RTR180 is a better handler any given day. Period. If you want a more flickable bike which is fun to negotiate the traffic then RTR wont disappoint you. P220 takes a little more effort in this regard.
2. RTR's initial pickup is equal (or better as some would say although by a very small margin) to that of P220. But i dont think you will be racing with a P220 if you buy an RTR or vice versa that these milliseconds would matter to you. But as the speed builds up, the 40cc extra obviously makes its presence felt and leaves the RTR behind. Having a better top end than RTR, the P220 engine is more relaxed at the same rpm than RTR which is good if you are into touring.
3. Suspension wise, the RTR's suspension is made for the track and hence feels a little stiff on the bad patches of road. P220 DTSI's suspension has been stiffened after DTSFI but still its better on the bad patches and not as good as RTR on the track or even for that matter on the twisties.
4. Looks are relative so i wont go into the debate of which bike looks better.
5. Riding position of the RTR is more on the sportier side than the P220. But its only a matter of getting used to before you feel comfortable.
6. Mileage is something plus minus 40kmph for the RTR, while the P220 DTSI has been known to give a variable mileage for different riders if you go through the P220 DTSI ownership thread.
7. Vibrations are there in the RTR from 4k to around 5.5k which is the speed zone of 55 to 68. P220 on the other hand is almost vibe free till you cross the 6.5k rpm. Now since you will be driving in the city, the RTR's vibe zone will have to experienced more than often as thats the speed we generally ride in cities.
8. Straight line stability of P220 is better compared to RTR.

Now coming down to the reliability, both the companies are reliable in present times. But face it, whatever bike you buy here, you will be facing some or the other problems, be it minor or major. In my city the Bajaj Probiking is much better than the TVS SVC. I dont know about your city. Ask some owners in your city about the SVC.
These were all the differences i could note about the two great bikes. See what you can bear with and what you cannot and then make your choice. Also others in this forum might add to the points i have mentioned. Take note of that too.

**sree_unicorn** · 05-07-2010, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post

Well i think this question is more apt at the What Bike thread. Anyways, comparing P220 with an RTR180 these are the pros and cons that they have:

1. RTR180 is a better handler any given day. Period. If you want a more flickable bike which is fun to negotiate the traffic then RTR wont disappoint you. P220 takes a little more effort in this regard.
2. RTR's initial pickup is equal (or better as some would say although by a very small margin) to that of P220. But i dont think you will be racing with a P220 if you buy an RTR or vice versa that these milliseconds would matter to you. But as the speed builds up, the 40cc extra obviously makes its presence felt and leaves the RTR behind. Having a better top end than RTR, the P220 engine is more relaxed at the same rpm than RTR which is good if you are into touring.
3. Suspension wise, the RTR's suspension is made for the track and hence feels a little stiff on the bad patches of road. P220 DTSI's suspension has been stiffened after DTSFI but still its better on the bad patches and not as good as RTR on the track or even for that matter on the twisties.
4. Looks are relative so i wont go into the debate of which bike looks better.
5. Riding position of the RTR is more on the sportier side than the P220. But its only a matter of getting used to before you feel comfortable.
6. Mileage is something plus minus 40kmph for the RTR, while the P220 DTSI has been known to give a variable mileage for different riders if you go through the P220 DTSI ownership thread.
7. Vibrations are there in the RTR from 4k to around 5.5k which is the speed zone of 55 to 68. P220 on the other hand is almost vibe free till you cross the 6.5k rpm. Now since you will be driving in the city, the RTR's vibe zone will have to experienced more than often as thats the speed we generally ride in cities.
8. Straight line stability of P220 is better compared to RTR.

Now coming down to the reliability, both the companies are reliable in present times. But face it, whatever bike you buy here, you will be facing some or the other problems, be it minor or major. In my city the Bajaj Probiking is much better than the TVS SVC. I dont know about your city. Ask some owners in your city about the SVC.
These were all the differences i could note about the two great bikes. See what you can bear with and what you cannot and then make your choice. Also others in this forum might add to the points i have mentioned. Take note of that too.

In south region TVS SVCs are doing good job

**chicane1879** · 05-07-2010, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post

Well i think this question is more apt at the What Bike thread. Anyways, comparing P220 with an RTR180 these are the pros and cons that they have:

1. RTR180 is a better handler any given day. Period. If you want a more flickable bike which is fun to negotiate the traffic then RTR wont disappoint you. P220 takes a little more effort in this regard.
2. RTR's initial pickup is equal (or better as some would say although by a very small margin) to that of P220. But i dont think you will be racing with a P220 if you buy an RTR or vice versa that these milliseconds would matter to you. But as the speed builds up, the 40cc extra obviously makes its presence felt and leaves the RTR behind. Having a better top end than RTR, the P220 engine is more relaxed at the same rpm than RTR which is good if you are into touring.
3. Suspension wise, the RTR's suspension is made for the track and hence feels a little stiff on the bad patches of road. P220 DTSI's suspension has been stiffened after DTSFI but still its better on the bad patches and not as good as RTR on the track or even for that matter on the twisties.
4. Looks are relative so i wont go into the debate of which bike looks better.
5. Riding position of the RTR is more on the sportier side than the P220. But its only a matter of getting used to before you feel comfortable.
6. Mileage is something plus minus 40kmph for the RTR, while the P220 DTSI has been known to give a variable mileage for different riders if you go through the P220 DTSI ownership thread.
7. Vibrations are there in the RTR from 4k to around 5.5k which is the speed zone of 55 to 68. P220 on the other hand is almost vibe free till you cross the 6.5k rpm. Now since you will be driving in the city, the RTR's vibe zone will have to experienced more than often as thats the speed we generally ride in cities.
8. Straight line stability of P220 is better compared to RTR.

Now coming down to the reliability, both the companies are reliable in present times. But face it, whatever bike you buy here, you will be facing some or the other problems, be it minor or major. In my city the Bajaj Probiking is much better than the TVS SVC. I dont know about your city. Ask some owners in your city about the SVC.
These were all the differences i could note about the two great bikes. See what you can bear with and what you cannot and then make your choice. Also others in this forum might add to the points i have mentioned. Take note of that too.

^^Very well put up!!

Even if both bikes cater to enthusiasts needs, there is a vast difference in the character between these two bikes!!

**Binoy** · 05-07-2010, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post

Well i think this question is more apt at the What Bike thread. Anyways, comparing P220 with an RTR180 these are the pros and cons that they have:

1. RTR180 is a better handler any given day. Period. If you want a more flickable bike which is fun to negotiate the traffic then RTR wont disappoint you. P220 takes a little more effort in this regard.
2. RTR's initial pickup is equal (or better as some would say although by a very small margin) to that of P220. But i dont think you will be racing with a P220 if you buy an RTR or vice versa that these milliseconds would matter to you. But as the speed builds up, the 40cc extra obviously makes its presence felt and leaves the RTR behind. Having a better top end than RTR, the P220 engine is more relaxed at the same rpm than RTR which is good if you are into touring.
3. Suspension wise, the RTR's suspension is made for the track and hence feels a little stiff on the bad patches of road. P220 DTSI's suspension has been stiffened after DTSFI but still its better on the bad patches and not as good as RTR on the track or even for that matter on the twisties.
4. Looks are relative so i wont go into the debate of which bike looks better.
5. Riding position of the RTR is more on the sportier side than the P220. But its only a matter of getting used to before you feel comfortable.
6. Mileage is something plus minus 40kmph for the RTR, while the P220 DTSI has been known to give a variable mileage for different riders if you go through the P220 DTSI ownership thread.
7. Vibrations are there in the RTR from 4k to around 5.5k which is the speed zone of 55 to 68. P220 on the other hand is almost vibe free till you cross the 6.5k rpm. Now since you will be driving in the city, the RTR's vibe zone will have to experienced more than often as thats the speed we generally ride in cities.
8. Straight line stability of P220 is better compared to RTR.

Now coming down to the reliability, both the companies are reliable in present times. But face it, whatever bike you buy here, you will be facing some or the other problems, be it minor or major. In my city the Bajaj Probiking is much better than the TVS SVC. I dont know about your city. Ask some owners in your city about the SVC.
These were all the differences i could note about the two great bikes. See what you can bear with and what you cannot and then make your choice. Also others in this forum might add to the points i have mentioned. Take note of that too.

Its a descent note buddy... i agree with your above points and very well put for a beginner who is in verge of deciding which one? that's why i always tell to take a TD...

**Makky** · 05-08-2010, 08:23 AM

Yesterday, I did a 300kms(to and fro) trip for Chris Pfeiffer's event. The bike was fantastic! Yes, vibrations are very much present between speeds of 55-68km/hr. But once past that, it is a bliss! I managed to touch 114km/hr on the East Coast Road connecting Pondicherry and Chennai! The tacho needle was dancing at 8000rpm.

What a bike! I was screaming on top of my voice when I saw those figures on the speedo!

The power delivery is super smooth. Every smallest wring on the throttle will bring a change on the speedo and the tacho.

One hard truth...RTR is not the bike to be used for a pillion ride! You all know it, dont you??

**rennycornelius** · 05-08-2010, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by rags View Post

As for the rear foot rest I can't comment much on that because I have never been a pillion on the Apache except for this once when I was a pillion for about 500m in busy traffic.

The rear pegs with their rubber removed, (i've R15's pegs) will make you put your feet off them once the bike will hit 7000RPM...

Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post

Well i think this question is more apt at the What Bike thread. Anyways, comparing P220 with an RTR180 these are the pros and cons that they have:

1. RTR180 is a better handler any given day. Period. If you want a more flickable bike which is fun to negotiate the traffic then RTR wont disappoint you. P220 takes a little more effort in this regard.
2. RTR's initial pickup is equal (or better as some would say although by a very small margin) to that of P220. But i dont think you will be racing with a P220 if you buy an RTR or vice versa that these milliseconds would matter to you. But as the speed builds up, the 40cc extra obviously makes its presence felt and leaves the RTR behind. Having a better top end than RTR, the P220 engine is more relaxed at the same rpm than RTR which is good if you are into touring.
3. Suspension wise, the RTR's suspension is made for the track and hence feels a little stiff on the bad patches of road. P220 DTSI's suspension has been stiffened after DTSFI but still its better on the bad patches and not as good as RTR on the track or even for that matter on the twisties.
4. Looks are relative so i wont go into the debate of which bike looks better.
5. Riding position of the RTR is more on the sportier side than the P220. But its only a matter of getting used to before you feel comfortable.
6. Mileage is something plus minus 40kmph for the RTR, while the P220 DTSI has been known to give a variable mileage for different riders if you go through the P220 DTSI ownership thread.
7. Vibrations are there in the RTR from 4k to around 5.5k which is the speed zone of 55 to 68. P220 on the other hand is almost vibe free till you cross the 6.5k rpm. Now since you will be driving in the city, the RTR's vibe zone will have to experienced more than often as thats the speed we generally ride in cities.
8. Straight line stability of P220 is better compared to RTR.

Now coming down to the reliability, both the companies are reliable in present times. But face it, whatever bike you buy here, you will be facing some or the other problems, be it minor or major. In my city the Bajaj Probiking is much better than the TVS SVC. I dont know about your city. Ask some owners in your city about the SVC.
These were all the differences i could note about the two great bikes. See what you can bear with and what you cannot and then make your choice. Also others in this forum might add to the points i have mentioned. Take note of that too.

Very well put together.

Originally posted by Makky View Post

Yesterday, I did a 300kms(to and fro) trip for Chris Pfeiffer's event. The bike was fantastic! Yes, vibrations are very much present between speeds of 55-68km/hr. But once past that, it is a bliss! I managed to touch 114km/hr on the East Coast Road connecting Pondicherry and Chennai! The tacho needle was dancing at 8000rpm.

What a bike! I was screaming on top of my voice when I saw those figures on the speedo!

The power delivery is super smooth. Every smallest wring on the throttle will bring a change on the speedo and the tacho.

One hard truth...RTR is not the bike to be used for a pillion ride! You all know it, dont you??

RTR is best when drriven alone, hell every bike is, the pillion robs the handling.

**Makky** · 05-08-2010, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by rennycornelius View Post

RTR is best when driven alone, hell every bike is, the pillion robs the handling.

Everything in fact! RTR's vibes, seating, suspension etc don't exactly make the pillion comfortable when compared with other top-end Indian bikes. The rider can forget all these since there are much more things he is interested in!!

@theguitarfreak... Nice comparo! I guess you forgot these bro... its 21bhp v/s 17bhp and the build quality and finish...RTR is way ahead of P220!

**rennycornelius** · 05-08-2010, 11:22 AM

The all metal rear pegs have incresed the "massaging" abilities in my FI....FI was supposed to iron out some of the vibes but once past 6500 my pillion screams for mercy.

And i've instruction from my better half to ride it below 4000RPM, and she even understood that what is the needle in the round thing is for and it should be below 4000 for her legs to be comfy...

**theguitarfreak** · 05-08-2010, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Makky View Post

@theguitarfreak... Nice comparo! I guess you forgot these bro... its 21bhp v/s 17bhp and the build quality and finish...RTR is way ahead of P220!

Yes thats there too but I didnt go into any of the tech specs other than the cc. I guess the guy already knows that.
And regarding the build quality, i would have agreed with you if it was 2-3 years ago. But nowadays even Bajaj is looking into their build quality. Im not saying Bajaj has better build quality but the difference isnt by that great a margin now.

Oh and another thing, I have put the Zapper S back to my rear wheel. Was missing the grip it offered. Yes maybe the low speed stability has been hampered a little but the amount of grip that it offers when you try to hug the road, makes you forget everything else

**rennycornelius** · 05-08-2010, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post

I have put the Zapper S back to my rear wheel. Was missing the grip it offered. Yes maybe the low speed stability has been hampered a little but the amount of grip that it offers when you try to hug the road, makes you forget everything else

Zapper S is the same one that R15's sports??????

**theguitarfreak** · 05-08-2010, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by rennycornelius View Post

Zapper S is the same one that R15's sports??????

Yes it is the same.

**rennycornelius** · 05-08-2010, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post

Yes it is the same.

Cornering god it is.
But i really wish it to be available in 18" and 110 and 120 sizes.

**theguitarfreak** · 05-08-2010, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by rennycornelius View Post

Cornering god it is.
But i really wish it to be available in 18" and 110 and 120 sizes.

But you have the option of michelin isnt it? Im not sure though.

And can someone tell me more about sprocketing? Im really into touring and would like to increase the top end so that at each rpm the bike attains more speed.

**rennycornelius** · 05-08-2010, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post

But you have the option of michelin isnt it? Im not sure though.

And can someone tell me more about sprocketing? Im really into touring and would like to increase the top end so that at each rpm the bike attains more speed.

Shave of two tooths from the rear sproaket, you'll have better top speed at each gear at the cost of the acceleration, the bike will also run at lower RPM at the given speed compared to the previous sproaket.

But dont shave off more than two tooths as then it'll put dent on the acceleration.

**abhichotu.abhi** · 05-08-2010, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by rennycornelius View Post

But dont shave off more than two tooths as then it'll put dent on the acceleration.

Dent on Acceleration alongwith front sprockets will also needs tobe changed for copping up with loss at the rear.

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