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**DukeDey** · 08-20-2013, 12:19 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Race concepts is all crap mate.. leave the bike stock and ride her trouble free instead of riding a non reliable bull shit.. :-)

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Such strong words, have you ever tried race concepts? I doubt.
I have a friend whose r15 was done by them and I can vouch for its performance and reliability. Many users on this forum have been using race concept products and services and they are really happy with their bikes.
I respect what you think but kindly don't guide others from trying a very good mod option and from a guy who knows his work really well(very few tuners like him exist). You like it stock I understand.

Whatever they are they are best at it.

Sent from my GT-I9100

**rreneav1987** · 08-20-2013, 12:23 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

Such strong words, have you ever tried race concepts? I doubt.
I have a friend whose r15 was done by them and I can vouch for its performance and reliability. Many users on this forum have been using race concept products and services and they are really happy with their bikes.
I respect what you think but kindly don't guide others from trying a very good mod option and from a guy who knows his work really well(very few tuners like him exist). You like it stock I understand.

Whatever they are they are best at it.

Sent from my GT-I9100

Maybe one or two.. but i know many who are suffering and losing money because of them.. i personally have a friend who tried it and in vain moved back to stock aftet losing quite a lot of hard earned money.. you can consider it as my opinion..

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**psr** · 08-20-2013, 12:38 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Maybe one or two.. but i know many who are suffering and losing money because of them.. i personally have a friend who tried it and in vain moved back to stock aftet losing quite a lot of hard earned money.. you can consider it as my opinion..

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

Let everyone have their OWN experience.....

**abhi7013** · 08-20-2013, 12:47 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Is the burning smell still present in your bike?? Any noticeable difference after removing the performance air filter?

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Had gone to the city to check out the same bro. There's no difference

Taktak sound comes only when the engine heats up, bike jerks in WOT, and the burning smell is present but I observed that it was a bit less as before. Still not able to pin-point the problem

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

**Bibhudatta** · 08-20-2013, 12:50 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by vishnurajanme View Post

Something GOOD or something EXTREMELY BAD is happening with my bike

I removed the snorkel a month back.
I am noticing a heavy increase in my bike's mileage afterwards.

Earlier whatever way I drove the bike, she gave me a mileage figure of 45 average and around 50 approx at 5k RPM

Now figures are somewhat linear.

Between 3.5-4.5k RPM, I am getting somewhere near 60+ as mileage

At 5k, mileage is 45 and 6k, it drops to 38

Also while accelerating, there is a heavy decrease in mileage compared with earlier condition. I thing, I am pulling the throttle more because of the sound feedback I am getting.

All figures are speedo indicated at 5th gear.

Also the average is now over 50 for sure

Calculated from last bar to last bar fill.

And the bike is not heating too much too. (I usually ride at approx 75-85at highways and 55-65 in cities)

So my question is, is the AFR running too lean due to the snorkel removal? Our bikes are closed loop FI types, right? So it should not be running lean na?

Confused!!!

Q1: Where did you learn that PGMFI in ZMR runs only a close loop all the time ? Can you please provide a valid link explaining the same ? Just bcoz ZMR has an O2 sensor ? Does the FI in ZMR work in closed loop when the engine is started ? or for that matter in any bike/car...
Q2: Who told you that closed loop FI means proper AF ratio is maintained ? Did you try finding anywhere that closed loop FI is meant for lean running actually ? For higher FE ...
Q3: Have you checked how many sensors ZMR has for its FI system to work ? What is the job of TPS & MAP mainly in addition to IAT & CPS ? Leaving apart O2 sensor, what are these range of sensors doing here ??
Q4: What happens when you run in WOT phase ?

This link might help you to an extent.. read throughly from P1 to P6
Honda Worldwide | Technology Close-up

**rreneav1987** · 08-20-2013, 12:51 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Had gone to the city to check out the same bro. There's no difference

Taktak sound comes only when the engine heats up, bike jerks in WOT, and the burning smell is present but I observed that it was a bit less as before. Still not able to pin-point the problem

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

Jerking sounds like fuel is not being pumped to the injector properly.. possible water in tank or pump.. that taktak sound is very normal.. and check for the engine gaskets for burns.. it could have burnt out.. just my guess.. and it seems like after moving to stock filter the smell has reduced and probably might reduce more in future..

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

**Bibhudatta** · 08-20-2013, 01:21 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally Posted by abhi7013
Had gone to the city to check out the same bro. There's no difference

Taktak sound comes only when the engine heats up, bike jerks in WOT, and the burning smell is present but I observed that it was a bit less as before. Still not able to pin-point the problem

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Jerking sounds like fuel is not being pumped to the injector properly.. possible water in tank or pump.. that taktak sound is very normal.. and check for the engine gaskets for burns.. it could have burnt out.. just my guess.. and it seems like after moving to stock filter the smell has reduced and probably might reduce more in future..

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

Luckily I was reading about FI & somewhere I had come up with a similar report today. What the expert said is you gotta check the health of your oxygen sensor. O2 sensor is nothing but a galvanized battery which sends out signals in form of voltage output. ECU prepares the AF mixture (either lean, super lean, rich or very rich) depending on the amount of voltage received. There have been quite a few cases reported where the O2 sensor in pgmfi fails to work properly, resulting in a wrong voltage signal to ECU. Therefore all of a sudden you start feeling some of loss of power before engine starts pulling with some extra power again.. A case of improper AF mixture for the operating condition of the engine..

On a different note; Just to add to this subject & a word for caution for people who might be using leaded petrol in ZMR; It is not advisable to use leaded petrol in FI with O2 sensors. Leaded fuel coats the sensor and degrades output voltage so that the ECU always thinks the mixture is lean. Therefore, the EFI system will add more n more fuel to try to satisfy the sensor.

**DukeDey** · 08-20-2013, 01:33 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Maybe one or two.. but i know many who are suffering and losing money because of them.. i personally have a friend who tried it and in vain moved back to stock aftet losing quite a lot of hard earned money.. you can consider it as my opinion..

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

The ones who are suffering are the ones who got the products shipped and got them installed by some local mechanic is my guess. Joel knows his work and I can paste links to a no of posts who are happy with what they have got and I sure bet that it would outnumber the people who are not happy.
I am not saying that a modded bike would be as reliable, more power would of course mean more stress on the internals which were not designed for this in the first place. But the mods do serve their purpose. The bold 25% claim might be from some guy joel employs but for this tarnishing a good fellows name is not good.

He is the best tuner out there. Ride the bikes he works on himself and you would surely change your mind. But only for the guys who get it done by joel himself.

Sent from my GT-I9100

**psr** · 08-20-2013, 09:53 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

The ones who are suffering are the ones who got the products shipped and got them installed by some local mechanic is my guess. Joel knows his work and I can paste links to a no of posts who are happy with what they have got and I sure bet that it would outnumber the people who are not happy.
I am not saying that a modded bike would be as reliable, more power would of course mean more stress on the internals which were not designed for this in the first place. But the mods do serve their purpose. The bold 25% claim might be from some guy joel employs but for this tarnishing a good fellows name is not good.

He is the best tuner out there. Ride the bikes he works on himself and you would surely change your mind. But only for the guys who get it done by joel himself.

Sent from my GT-I9100

Nothing can beat a personal experience....

**vishnurajanme** · 08-20-2013, 10:31 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Bibhudatta View Post

Q1: Where did you learn that PGMFI in ZMR runs only a close loop all the time ? Can you please provide a valid link explaining the same ? Just bcoz ZMR has an O2 sensor ? Does the FI in ZMR work in closed loop when the engine is started ? or for that matter in any bike/car...

From this forum itself. Also, I did not mention, it runs closed loop all the time. At ignition and WOT, it runs as open loop at a predefined value

Q2: Who told you that closed loop FI means proper AF ratio is maintained ? Did you try finding anywhere that closed loop FI is meant for lean running actually ? For higher FE ...

No one told. All ECU based FI systems do the same thing. Same is the case with ZMR too. Just found out a figure from the link you gave. Quoting for reference.
Honda Worldwide | Technology Close-up

Q3: Have you checked how many sensors ZMR has for its FI system to work ? What is the job of TPS & MAP mainly in addition to IAT & CPS ? Leaving apart O2 sensor, what are these range of sensors doing here ??

Please check hero website for info about the same.

Q4: What happens when you run in WOT phase ?

Answered in Q1. Open Loop

BUT I never mentioned anything related to WOT in my previous post. I mentioned everything based on RPM values.

Check the previous page eyes open

This link might help you to an extent.. read throughly from P1 to P6
Honda Worldwide | Technology Close-up

Answers in bold

**abhi7013** · 08-20-2013, 10:36 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Bibhudatta View Post

Originally Posted by abhi7013
Had gone to the city to check out the same bro. There's no difference

Taktak sound comes only when the engine heats up, bike jerks in WOT, and the burning smell is present but I observed that it was a bit less as before. Still not able to pin-point the problem

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

Luckily I was reading about FI & somewhere I had come up with a similar report today. What the expert said is you gotta check the health of your oxygen sensor. O2 sensor is nothing but a galvanized battery which sends out signals in form of voltage output. ECU prepares the AF mixture (either lean, super lean, rich or very rich) depending on the amount of voltage received. There have been quite a few cases reported where the O2 sensor in pgmfi fails to work properly, resulting in a wrong voltage signal to ECU. Therefore all of a sudden you start feeling some of loss of power before engine starts pulling with some extra power again.. A case of improper AF mixture for the operating condition of the engine..

On a different note; Just to add to this subject & a word for caution for people who might be using leaded petrol in ZMR; It is not advisable to use leaded petrol in FI with O2 sensors. Leaded fuel coats the sensor and degrades output voltage so that the ECU always thinks the mixture is lean. Therefore, the EFI system will add more n more fuel to try to satisfy the sensor.

Now how do I get my mech to identify where the O2 sensor is?

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

**Divya Sharan** · 08-20-2013, 10:38 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

The ones who are suffering are the ones who got the products shipped and got them installed by some local mechanic is my guess. Joel knows his work and I can paste links to a no of posts who are happy with what they have got and I sure bet that it would outnumber the people who are not happy.
I am not saying that a modded bike would be as reliable, more power would of course mean more stress on the internals which were not designed for this in the first place. But the mods do serve their purpose. The bold 25% claim might be from some guy joel employs but for this tarnishing a good fellows name is not good.

He is the best tuner out there. Ride the bikes he works on himself and you would surely change your mind. But only for the guys who get it done by joel himself.

Sent from my GT-I9100

Agree, there have been a few lucky cases. You wanna know who are the ones who suffered? [MENTION=13887]prateek2210[/MENTION], [MENTION=47593]Adarsh_Bk[/MENTION], [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION], [MENTION=6601]harish[/MENTION]pk come to mind immediately. JJ worked on these bikes himself. The problem is - his products are inferior. I'm nobody to tarnish anyone's image. His FFE sucks (literally - rust, glasswool loss etc), his cam mods suck, his pistons break within running in period, valve clearances are wrong, inlet/exhaust ports are in the wrong direction and what not.

I'm not sure about the mod [MENTION=24386]Samarth[/MENTION]619, but I guess he was not happy himself!

**psr** · 08-20-2013, 10:43 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Now how do I get my mech to identify where the O2 sensor is?

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

The O2 sensor in a ZMR sits at the mouth of exhaust outlet close to cylinder head....

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Agree, there have been a few lucky cases. You wanna know who are the ones who suffered? @prateek2210, @Adarsh_Bk, @shv18, @harishpk come to mind immediately. JJ worked on these bikes himself. The problem is - his products are inferior. I'm nobody to tarnish anyone's image. His FFE sucks (literally - rust, glasswool loss etc), his cam mods suck, his pistons break within running in period, valve clearances are wrong, inlet/exhaust ports are in the wrong direction and what not.

I'm not sure about the mod @Samarth619, but I guess he was not happy himself!

Divya Sharan.....let go of this topic....it does not serve any purpose, you can only warn people but,Let everyone have their Personal experience and learn.

**rreneav1987** · 08-20-2013, 11:01 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Thanks a ton to [MENTION=41586]Divya Sharan[/MENTION] and [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] sir for saving me from going hot rodded.. and to a fellow friend of mine who shared his experience that i stayed stock and enjoying the smooth and reliable ride with my black pearl :-)

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

**Adarsh_Bk** · 08-20-2013, 11:25 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Agree, there have been a few lucky cases. You wanna know who are the ones who suffered? @prateek2210, @Adarsh_Bk, @shv18, @harishpk come to mind immediately. JJ worked on these bikes himself. The problem is - his products are inferior. I'm nobody to tarnish anyone's image. His FFE sucks (literally - rust, glasswool loss etc), his cam mods suck, his pistons break within running in period, valve clearances are wrong, inlet/exhaust ports are in the wrong direction and what not.

I'm not sure about the mod @Samarth619, but I guess he was not happy himself!

Arre! How come my name is in that list?

There wasnt any major suffering till now (*touchwood*) and I hope it will stay the same. But all the details regarding the kits have been given by @shv18 in FZ18 thread in detail. And yes, lets drop this here.

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