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**rreneav1987** · 08-17-2013, 07:05 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Quality "may" vary. But quantity "does" vary. Quality may vary depending upon the adulteration, but the Xtra Premium thingy or the Shell bunks' claim of providing superior petrol is nothing but pure bull crap.

P.S - Get petrol filled in the morning, 6 AM types. Physics plays a good part here.

Very very true.. the fuel expands due to heat so itnis definitely advisable to fill fuel early morning or later in the evening..

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

**Raja Saiyan** · 08-17-2013, 10:07 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Very very true.. the fuel expands due to heat so itnis definitely advisable to fill fuel early morning or later in the evening..

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Quality "may" vary. But quantity "does" vary. Quality may vary depending upon the adulteration, but the Xtra Premium thingy or the Shell bunks' claim of providing superior petrol is nothing but pure bull crap. They add only additives, but in no way does that add to octane levels. ALL petrol bunks in tier 1 cities have 91 RON petrol and villages have 87 RON petrol. Our bike digests both. You may fill Xtra Premium once in a while, but not always.

P.S - Get petrol filled in the morning, 6 AM types. Physics plays a good part here.

Wow you guys are pure GREASE MONKEYS [Nerds]

**ice man** · 08-17-2013, 10:20 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

i just experience my fuel gauge jumping in reserve after giving my bike for tappet adjustment. & only shows correct just for first 50-70 km after refueling

**Parvez Radiowala** · 08-18-2013, 10:00 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Hi Parvez, I have this small little riding group in mumbai "RoadRunnerz", we are making a breakfast ride to Ahura Hotel tomorrow on NH8 around 100-120 kms from Mumbai....You can join us if you wish to...!! We'd be back by 12pm ..........PM me if youre interested..!![/QUOTE]

@padfootmoony2006Sorry I missed your response was too busy this weekend, would join you guys next for sure, was not able to find your group Roadrunnerz, please provide me with the Thread li nk Thanks

**Bibhudatta** · 08-18-2013, 01:42 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

P.S - Get petrol filled in the morning, 6 AM types. Physics plays a good part here.

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Very very true.. the fuel expands due to heat so itnis definitely advisable to fill fuel early morning or later in the evening..

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

Sorry guys, but this isn't exactly correct. Infact a PL analysis would conclude this as more of a myth/misguidance only

.. check the following few points:

The fuel reservoirs are buried underground, at about 4.6 to 6 mtrs below the surface. On top of it the reservoirs are non-metallic. Therefore the outside air temperature (which you feel in real) takes quite a few hours to really penetrate that depth & create a similar temperature around the reservoirs. Infact it would never really go up to the level of outside temperature unless outside temperature is sustained for a long long period of time.
There is a natural thermal damping effect (heat sink effect) of the cool earth due to which the gasoline temperature changes very little over a 24 hour period. Atleast there would be literally no difference you fill up at 6 am or at 12 noon.
May be some effect at 3/4 PM. But Petrol has a coefficient of expansion of about 0.1% per degree C. That means hardly 1% per ltr over a 10 degree C rise in reservoir temperature; meaning a 10 ml gain??
Lets say I still go crazy for that 0.1% savings. But what we might forget is, you ride your vehicle to the filling station in the low early morning temperature means you ride in low engine temperature & thus exposing the oil to a larger surface area. Or you warm it up with 2-3 mins of idle running, losing more than the .1% petrol in the warm up itself. Therefore such stupid gain is easily neutralized by the wear n tear cost itself.
Coming to filling up in the evening; I think we have forgotten the fact that at such depth of earth the reservoirs would take equal amount of time to get cooled as much they would have taken to be heated up. So there is no gain in filling up in the evening really. May be late night is an option.
Alright, let me support this phenomenon considering that some live in an extremely hot zone where temp goes up to the level of 46-48 degrees & stays so for a long period of time. So there is some heating/volume loss effect which can be considered in those areas. However the fact again is that the differences in fuel quantity and composition is still almost negligible.
Last but not the least, you are more likely to be cheated by the "calibrated" pumps. Petrol companies are smart enough to control the volume of outgoing fuel at different times of the day as they are also aware of this .1% change in volume per deg C. You might be filling up your only bike/car; but for the companies it would be some million vehicles per day & therefore a company can save some thousands of litres per day ensuring that the pumps are well calibrated. I would make a fool of myself if I think I can really cheat on them; can you !!

& If I forgot to add to the above points; can someone please say if loosing a long sweet lazy morning sleep is really worth this 0.1 % saving (or no saving actually) Damn, I am still under my blanket even at 12; this is a super sunday after all..

**Divya Sharan** · 08-18-2013, 04:11 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Bibhudatta View Post

Sorry guys, but this isn't exactly correct. Infact a PL analysis would conclude this as more of a myth/misguidance only

.. check the following few points:

Its good only in theory dada. Let me give you a first hand analysis (dates back to 2005).

We fill petrol in our cars as soon as they hit reserve. Petrol bunk is just 500m from my home.

Back in Jharkhand at my place, I and dad filled our Maruti with full belly petrol in the afternoon. It reached auto cutoff at 32 litres. (full tank is 36 litres)

We went to deoghar for pilgrimage and thus these 36L were used real quick. Later that week, we got a full tank again. Only difference - we filled at 6 AM
The car took in 37 litres! (obviously, calibration at the pump is wrong) Hence, that 0.1% is only theory and not at all stupidity!
Our calculations then suggested we got 2L extra (with the calibration error counted) when filling in the morning.

P.S - This is not observed in bikes, because at max we fill for 500 rupees which is ~6.4L in BLR. We are talking about gaining 1.5-2L over 35+ litres.

**Bibhudatta** · 08-18-2013, 11:21 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Its good only in theory dada. Let me give you a first hand analysis (dates back to 2005).

We fill petrol in our cars as soon as they hit reserve. Petrol bunk is just 500m from my home.

Back in Jharkhand at my place, I and dad filled our Maruti with full belly petrol in the afternoon. It reached auto cutoff at 32 litres. (full tank is 36 litres)

We went to deoghar for pilgrimage and thus these 36L were used real quick. Later that week, we got a full tank again. Only difference - we filled at 6 AM
The car took in 37 litres! (obviously, calibration at the pump is wrong) Hence, that 0.1% is only theory and not at all stupidity!
Our calculations then suggested we got 2L extra (with the calibration error counted) when filling in the morning.

P.S - This is not observed in bikes, because at max we fill for 500 rupees which is ~6.4L in BLR. We are talking about gaining 1.5-2L over 35+ litres.

Alright, I don't want to discourage you

But like I usually say to my team more often than not, that "technology cannot be partial"; similarly here science cannot be partial either. No practical exists without a theory & if the theory backed by science then it must always be believed. If something like that happened to you then there must have been some factor(s) which influenced that.. Though I can not comment fully as I am not aware of all the statistics that is needed for the analysis. But I would still try & provide a few applicable points.

The 0.1% is for every 10 degrees Centigrade rise in fuel temperature. That is a property of petrol & I cant change it. Therefore it can be .2% with a 20 degC rise too.
Second, I am not too confident of the auto cutoff; There have been many times I fill petrol in my hyundai, where the station guy gets an auto cutoff, pauses & still continues to fill for a couple more litres ! If you observe closely, usually station guys pull out the nozzle a bit, also slow down the outlet pressure & then start filling for couple more seconds.
Additionally don't forget the pressure at which stations guys fill; it is a proven fact that the more the pressure they apply, the lesser they fill per litre. Considering 36 ltrs of petrol, you would get some substantial volume difference with difference in pressure applied each time.
Take in to account the amount lost in vaporization at the time of filling. If by any chance you would have got more vaporization second time then you would have got a bit more meter reading too.
Cant talk about how well maintained & correct the pump was wr.t calibration. It was way long ago. But if the meter read 37 ltrs second time, then I doubt you paid for the extra litre of petrol, right ? Does it mean the pump actually filled less for each litre second time as petrol was more compressed. That way it seems that the pump was well calibrated actually.

All said n done Divya, I again repeat, don't the petrol companies know all these fundas ? At least in year 2013. They do way more research than we do right ? If yes, then how can we outsmart them so easily & by such a huge margin ?

**Divya Sharan** · 08-19-2013, 07:42 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Bibhudatta View Post

All said n done Divya, I again repeat, don't the petrol companies know all these fundas ? At least in year 2013. They do way more research than we do right ? If yes, then how can we outsmart them so easily & by such a huge margin ?

Yes dada, what you're saying is true. Petrol companies know the properties well, but the pump attendants are the miscreants here.

Regarding auto cut off:

In the autocut feature, what the attendants normally do is to lock the valve at its highest position resulting in the fuel gushing out of the nozzle at high speed. This results in foaming thus creating back pressure which activates the cutoff feature.

So, while filling in, I ask them to set the nozzle at the lowest pressure. This is convenient for them in the early morning types since there is nobody else waiting in queue and they have to oblige.

Also, regarding guys who face reserve within 50-70 kms from filling, I feel they're getting duped.

Relevant threads
Short Fueling Tricks At Petrol Stations - Team-BHP
Heard of pgportal.gov.in? About time you do - Team-BHP
My experience with Petrol Pump Fraud - And the silver lining - Team-BHP

**veryhiphop** · 08-19-2013, 10:24 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Problem of bike getting stop during ride re-occur today....

need to give a acceleration with start button to start the bike....

Today start my bike after a week and after start bike gets off...i thought its a battery issue...after several attempt bike does not start....then give a acceleration with start push button and bike starts....

now during ride bike get off between the road...to start it give a acceleration and it work...

Its a same issue fixed in feb....

**Bibhudatta** · 08-19-2013, 12:59 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Yes dada, what you're saying is true. Petrol companies know the properties well, but the pump attendants are the miscreants here.

Regarding auto cut off:

In the autocut feature, what the attendants normally do is to lock the valve at its highest position resulting in the fuel gushing out of the nozzle at high speed. This results in foaming thus creating back pressure which activates the cutoff feature.

So, while filling in, I ask them to set the nozzle at the lowest pressure. This is convenient for them in the early morning types since there is nobody else waiting in queue and they have to oblige.

Also, regarding guys who face reserve within 50-70 kms from filling, I feel they're getting duped.

Relevant threads
Short Fueling Tricks At Petrol Stations - Team-BHP
Heard of pgportal.gov.in? About time you do - Team-BHP
My experience with Petrol Pump Fraud - And the silver lining - Team-BHP

Yeah, I would agree to you here coz you have mentioned the real culprits..The pump owners, particularly in smaller towns.. They can ofcourse go to any length as far as manipulation is concerned. They manipulate by manual controls.. Therefore you can also get it back by some smartness...

I remember how we used to test petrol dilution in early days.. We would take some petrol in the fingers & would rub. Traces of fuel would still be left on fingers after a couple of minutes, which used be kerosene actually !

Fueling is something I love when I stay abroad.. It is always a DIY at the filling stations there & is free of all these nonsense...

**vishnurajanme** · 08-19-2013, 03:23 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Something GOOD or something EXTREMELY BAD is happening with my bike

I removed the snorkel a month back.
I am noticing a heavy increase in my bike's mileage afterwards.

Earlier whatever way I drove the bike, she gave me a mileage figure of 45 average and around 50 approx at 5k RPM

Now figures are somewhat linear.

Between 3.5-4.5k RPM, I am getting somewhere near 60+ as mileage

At 5k, mileage is 45 and 6k, it drops to 38

Also while accelerating, there is a heavy decrease in mileage compared with earlier condition. I thing, I am pulling the throttle more because of the sound feedback I am getting.

All figures are speedo indicated at 5th gear.

Also the average is now over 50 for sure

Calculated from last bar to last bar fill.

And the bike is not heating too much too. (I usually ride at approx 75-85at highways and 55-65 in cities)

So my question is, is the AFR running too lean due to the snorkel removal? Our bikes are closed loop FI types, right? So it should not be running lean na?

Confused!!!

**abhi7013** · 08-19-2013, 03:31 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by vishnurajanme View Post

Something GOOD or something EXTREMELY BAD is happening with my bike

I removed the snorkel a month back.
I am noticing a heavy increase in my bike's mileage afterwards.

Earlier whatever way I drove the bike, she gave me a mileage figure of 45 average and around 50 approx at 5k RPM

Now figures are somewhat linear.

Between 3.5-4.5k RPM, I am getting somewhere near 60+ as mileage

At 5k, mileage is 45 and 6k, it drops to 38

Also while accelerating, there is a heavy decrease in mileage compared with earlier condition. I thing, I am pulling the throttle more because of the sound feedback I am getting.

All figures are speedo indicated at 5th gear.

Also the average is now over 50 for sure

Calculated from last bar to last bar fill.

And the bike is not heating too much too. (I usually ride at approx 75-85at highways and 55-65 in cities)

So my question is, is the AFR running too lean due to the snorkel removal? Our bikes are closed loop FI types, right? So it should not be running lean na?

Confused!!!

Well, even I have that doubt. The system has to adjust to the change in air volume but then I guess my bike failed to do so and was running lean. But I dunno how that contributed to burning smell. Now replaced back to new stock filter. The engine is very refined. Cursing myself for having missed the experience for almost 20k kms out or 31k done.

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

**rreneav1987** · 08-19-2013, 03:54 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Well, even I have that doubt. The system has to adjust to the change in air volume but then I guess my bike failed to do so and was running lean. But I dunno how that contributed to burning smell. Now replaced back to new stock filter. The engine is very refined. Cursing myself for having missed the experience for almost 20k kms out or 31k done.

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

Is the burning smell still present in your bike?? Any noticeable difference after removing the performance air filter?

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

**Night_Shade** · 08-19-2013, 10:30 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Hello fellow biker brothers....

HERE IS A PIECE OF IMPORTANT INFORMATION SPECIALLY FOR GUYS WHO ARE LOOKING FOR PERFORMANCE UPGRADE FROM RACE CONCEPTS. HOPE THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION WOULD HELP LOT OF FELLOW KARIZMA RIDERS.. RIDE SAFE GUYS

From: Race Concepts <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Free Flow Exhaust with Decibel Killer for Karizma R
To: Raghu Chouhan <[email protected]>

Hey Raghav,

Apologies for the delayed response. Race weekends have kept us busy for long. The Karizma exhaust will cost you 8500+500 shipping charges. In addition to this, we do not have a jetting upgrade. However, we do offer a performance Carburettor for the Karizma R. The benefits will be a power bump of at least 25% and improved throttle response. The new carburettor will cost 6000. In addition to this total shipping charges of 500 is applicable. Thank you

On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Raghu Chouhan <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Joel,

This is Raghav here a friend of Samanth from Ajmer..

I has wrote to you earlier too but there was no reply from your end.. after talking to lot of Xbhpians, I am here writing to you again... I have bought a used Karizma R 2007 model with 43k on odo and now I am working on its performance modifications..

To start with I have fitted it with K&N Air filter RC1060 model and yes the engine is running lean as I read in your thread replies..and planning to use NGK iridium spark plug.

What I need from you in a FFE for Karizma R made of stainless steel and I am looking to upsize the Main jet to 135 and the Pilot to 40/42.

Please let me know the cost and how you can send it to Jaipur.. PlEASE I NEED EM ASAP.

Please contact me here or sms me on

Thanking you..

Raghav

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Raghu Chouhan <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Joel,

My name is Raghavendra and I am from Jaipur. I want to enquire about the FFE with decibel killer for Karizma R. I have recently purchased a used Karizma bike and I am thinking of servicing the bike before I use it as the engine has some sound. And also I was thinking of increasing the performance. I have planned to install K & N air filter, Iridium spark plug and a FFE. As I was searching for it on google. I came across your name. So Please let me know how much it will cost me(FFE with decible killer) and how would you send it to Jaipur. I NEED IT ASAP.

Waiting for your reply, please call me if you need more info.

Raghav

**rreneav1987** · 08-19-2013, 11:56 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Night_Shade View Post

Hello fellow biker brothers....

HERE IS A PIECE OF IMPORTANT INFORMATION SPECIALLY FOR GUYS WHO ARE LOOKING FOR PERFORMANCE UPGRADE FROM RACE CONCEPTS. HOPE THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION WOULD HELP LOT OF FELLOW KARIZMA RIDERS.. RIDE SAFE GUYS

From: Race Concepts <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Free Flow Exhaust with Decibel Killer for Karizma R
To: Raghu Chouhan <[email protected]>

Hey Raghav,

Apologies for the delayed response. Race weekends have kept us busy for long. The Karizma exhaust will cost you 8500+500 shipping charges. In addition to this, we do not have a jetting upgrade. However, we do offer a performance Carburettor for the Karizma R. The benefits will be a power bump of at least 25% and improved throttle response. The new carburettor will cost 6000. In addition to this total shipping charges of 500 is applicable. Thank you

On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Raghu Chouhan <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Joel,

This is Raghav here a friend of Samanth from Ajmer..

I has wrote to you earlier too but there was no reply from your end.. after talking to lot of Xbhpians, I am here writing to you again... I have bought a used Karizma R 2007 model with 43k on odo and now I am working on its performance modifications..

To start with I have fitted it with K&N Air filter RC1060 model and yes the engine is running lean as I read in your thread replies..and planning to use NGK iridium spark plug.

What I need from you in a FFE for Karizma R made of stainless steel and I am looking to upsize the Main jet to 135 and the Pilot to 40/42.

Please let me know the cost and how you can send it to Jaipur.. PlEASE I NEED EM ASAP.

Please contact me here or sms me on

Thanking you..

Raghav

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Raghu Chouhan <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Joel,

My name is Raghavendra and I am from Jaipur. I want to enquire about the FFE with decibel killer for Karizma R. I have recently purchased a used Karizma bike and I am thinking of servicing the bike before I use it as the engine has some sound. And also I was thinking of increasing the performance. I have planned to install K & N air filter, Iridium spark plug and a FFE. As I was searching for it on google. I came across your name. So Please let me know how much it will cost me(FFE with decible killer) and how would you send it to Jaipur. I NEED IT ASAP.

Waiting for your reply, please call me if you need more info.

Raghav

Race concepts is all crap mate.. leave the bike stock and ride her trouble free instead of riding a non reliable bull shit.. :-)

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

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