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**DukeDey** · 08-20-2013, 11:28 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Agree, there have been a few lucky cases. You wanna know who are the ones who suffered? @prateek2210, @Adarsh_Bk, @shv18, @harishpk come to mind immediately. JJ worked on these bikes himself. The problem is - his products are inferior. I'm nobody to tarnish anyone's image. His FFE sucks (literally - rust, glasswool loss etc), his cam mods suck, his pistons break within running in period, valve clearances are wrong, inlet/exhaust ports are in the wrong direction and what not.

I'm not sure about the mod @Samarth619, but I guess he was not happy himself!

Well, I guess in that case i'll have to agree with you guys then. Heard so much about JJ and even rode a R15 done by him and it was good. But all these negative reviews would keep me away from him. I knew of only one good tooner and now even he has been chucked out of the list. India is a bad place for mods, where can we get good mod jobs done? Like in the movies like fast and the furious.

**Divya Sharan** · 08-20-2013, 12:06 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

Like in the movies like fast and the furious.

In the movies only.

Give India some time!

**shv18** · 08-20-2013, 12:18 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

Well, I guess in that case i'll have to agree with you guys then. Heard so much about JJ and even rode a R15 done by him and it was good. But all these negative reviews would keep me away from him. I knew of only one good tooner and now even he has been chucked out of the list. India is a bad place for mods, where can we get good mod jobs done? Like in the movies like fast and the furious.

Well don't want to sabotage the thread but i am currently busy testing out one guy here in Mumbai Motozone. yesterday's speed run opened my eyes towards the possibilities. Let's see it is still too early for me to give out a verdict with their kits. After extensive tests people can check my thread and see the +ves and -ves of the same.

**abhi7013** · 08-20-2013, 01:00 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

And is there anyway in verifying if the sensor is faulty cause of which am facing this issue?
And whats the part number?

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

**Bibhudatta** · 08-20-2013, 01:07 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by vishnurajanme View Post

Answers in bold

Dude seems you fail to take questions in the right (read learning) spirit.. not sure how experienced you are professionally. My intention was not to insult you by testing your knowledge. I have no business in doing so.

I posted those questions for you only because many times cross questioning takes you to the answers in a much healthier way.. because they force you to read more n more & gather more knowledge by self. That is always best way to learn/confirm instead of just listening to someone's answer & believing it blindly. I asked questions because I was more than sure from your post that you have just believed what you have heard here n there. Check one of your statement "Our bikes are closed loop FI types, right? So it should not be running lean na?" What evidence backs this statement ?

Coming back to your topic, I had read it quite very well before posting those questions. Instead of just shooting back try relating them properly to what you are experiencing at different riding conditions, read a little more & you would know why they are happening.

BTW, can I relate your "RPM value" to different engine operating conditions, different throttle response, different AF mixtures etc ? damn,one more question

**chinmayakar** · 08-20-2013, 01:13 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

Well, I guess in that case i'll have to agree with you guys then. Heard so much about JJ and even rode a R15 done by him and it was good. But all these negative reviews would keep me away from him. I knew of only one good tooner and now even he has been chucked out of the list. India is a bad place for mods, where can we get good mod jobs done? Like in the movies like fast and the furious.

Extremely sorry guys for the OT. Dont give up hope yet on JJ. After the last weekend meet, I realised one thing. Get all the mods done by JJ. No shipping business. Dont pay until you get your work done.

I have been on the path, however, my experience was lot better with him.

One more thing I realised, all the Tuners are same. They cater to you properly if you are within the city limits. They do not care about out station guys. Professionalism is seriously lacking.

**Divya Sharan** · 08-20-2013, 01:16 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by chinmayakar View Post

Extremely sorry guys for the OT. Dont give up hope yet on JJ. After the last weekend meet, I realised one thing. Get all the mods done by JJ. No shipping business. Dont pay until you get your work done.

I have been on the path, however, my experience was lot better with him.

One more thing I realised, all the Tuners are same. They cater to you properly if you are within the city limits. They do not care about out station guys. Professionalism is seriously lacking.

Agree with the professionalism part. You getting RC updates for your Duke too?

**chinmayakar** · 08-20-2013, 01:21 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Agree with the professionalism part. You getting RC updates for your Duke too?

If I am in Bangalore, I would definitely go to Joel for mods on my Duke. However, I also have my eyes on Shv's mods. If all goes fine, as per our expectations, then I may start with Exhaust upgrade from Motozone.

Fortunately we have very knowledgeable guys in Mumbai.

Any more discussion on this we should take it offline or on Duke 200 thread, as we are going Off topic.

**Night_Shade** · 08-21-2013, 12:29 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Closing the TOPIC and no one is thanking me for bringing up the topic... this aint fair buds

**psr** · 08-21-2013, 10:03 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Night_Shade View Post

Closing the TOPIC and no one is thanking me for bringing up the topic... this aint fair buds

You opened up a closed topic...but I will thank you since more clarification had come to light because of you...

**vishnurajanme** · 08-21-2013, 10:22 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Bibhudatta View Post

Dude seems you fail to take questions in the right (read learning) spirit.. not sure how experienced you are professionally. My intention was not to insult you by testing your knowledge. I have no business in doing so.

I posted those questions for you only because many times cross questioning takes you to the answers in a much healthier way.. because they force you to read more n more & gather more knowledge by self. That is always best way to learn/confirm instead of just listening to someone's answer & believing it blindly. I asked questions because I was more than sure from your post that you have just believed what you have heard here n there. Check one of your statement "Our bikes are closed loop FI types, right? So it should not be running lean na?" What evidence backs this statement ?

Coming back to your topic, I had read it quite very well before posting those questions. Instead of just shooting back try relating them properly to what you are experiencing at different riding conditions, read a little more & you would know why they are happening.

BTW, can I relate your "RPM value" to different engine operating conditions, different throttle response, different AF mixtures etc ? damn,one more question

LOL, dude, I was just joking. I am really a bad speaker

I dont get that much time to go through tech savvy write ups. That is why I shot that questions to Einsteins like you guys over here.

Like I already told, as per my very basic knowledge, ZMR mostly runs in a closed loop (Except WOT, Ignition, High RPMs whatever).
And, a closed loop means a control system that adjusts the error in the output continuously based on the input values. (Thanks to Anju Mam who taught me control system during B.tech days. Good god, she was a damsel

). So, as I removed the air resonator, the resistance is lowered (hole became big) and more air will enter the engine. So as per Anju mam's theory, in a closed loop system (Normal riding conditions: 3-5.5k RPM closed loop condition) as more air enters the engine, the fuel pump will pump more fuel to maintain the AFR which is a predetermined value by hero (or HONDA?).

So if all these theories are correct, my bike should have got the same fuel efficiency as before even after removing the resonator/snorkel. But It isn't.

I am getting approx 55Kmpl FE now in a 223CC Bike. HURRAYYY

So these are the basic things I know. I am really a noob when it comes to honda engines and other technical extrapolations.
So if someone has got an answer to this question, please... Teach me

Okay, got some info about the bikey. So question is answered

PGM-Fi operating logic also needs an explanation of what is called the 'open-loop' and 'closed-loop' operating mode for PGM-Fi. Closed-loop means a feedback-loop mode. PGM-Fi works in closed-loop mainly during engine idling. In closed-loop mode, PGM-Fi uses the signal from one critical sensor, the O2 (or sometimes known as lambda) sensor to attempt to attain an ideal air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1 (stoichometric ratio). An O2 sensor operates by measuring the amount of oxygen left in the exhaust gas. The amount of oxygen is a good indicator of the combustion efficiency and a higher oxygen content will suggest a lean condition and vice versa. O2 sensors are normally mounted on the exhaust manifold (or sometimes called the extractors) and/or catalytic converters (for cars equipped with them) and PGM-Fi uses the O2 sensor reading to bump air-fuel ratio up or down until it gets a reading indicating optimum combustion.

So during engine idling, the air-fuel ratio may initially fluctuate up and down based on O2 sensor readings but should eventually settle to a stable value corresponding to the ideal 14.7:1 ratio. PGM-Fi works in closed-loop mode only during idle or very light accelerator openings.

From moderate to maximum throttle openings, PGM-Fi goes into an open-loop mode. In open loop mode, PGM-Fi ignores the O2 sensor signal but will still use the other sensor signals (air temperature and pressure, TPS etc) to make compensations on the base injector opening values. However for very heavy accelerator positions (indicated by large TPS values), PGM-Fi now gives priority to engine RPM, MAP and TPS sensor readings. RPM and MAP sensors will always be required since they are input parameters for reading the fuel-map. But in open-loop mode, PGM-Fi no longer makes as much compensation for other sensor readings, other than TPS sensor, as in closed-loop mode.

When operating in open-loop then, PGM-Fi will usually be operating in a rich-mode. This will be especially true for JDM vehicles when imported directly from Japan into various countries (whether as used or new cars). The PGM-Fi program will have been originally designed based on the atmospheric conditions in Japan and they will almost certainly be different from the countries into which the cars are imported. Even for truly localized line-ups, a rich condition also normally prevail because the PGM-Fi program would have been originally developed to accomodate for the whole country or sometimes even an entire region and thus would again be based on a large base of 'average' values.

ONE MORE QUESTION

So more FE = a lean mixture

It is bad for my bike, right?
Also, engine is not heating up much.
PSR sir is using the same desnorkeled setup in his ZMA right?
Sir, can you please advice?

Also, how to tag a person in a post here, like tagging using '@' in Facebook?

Wait, again an issue. Just read the quote again

In open loop mode, PGM-Fi ignores the O2 sensor signal but will still use the other sensor signals (air temperature and pressure, TPS etc) to make compensations on the base injector opening values.

If it adjusts the injector opening based on air pressure value, all my concepts are correct.

Tech savy people, please help.

**Divya Sharan** · 08-21-2013, 11:03 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by vishnurajanme View Post

Also, how to tag a person in a post here, like tagging using '@' in Facebook?

Same as Facebook. Use the @ symbol before the username. [MENTION=50653]vishnurajanme[/MENTION] for example.
BTW, I put back the snorkel today morning. The bike is quieter and feels smoother.

**rreneav1987** · 08-21-2013, 11:12 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Same as Facebook. Use the @ symbol before the username. [MENTION=50653]vishnurajanme[/MENTION] for example.
BTW, I put back the snorkel today morning. The bike is quieter and feels smoother.

I will also fit it back once i reach delhi.. :-) i loved the smooth ride of hunk and zmr is even smoother..

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

**Night_Shade** · 08-21-2013, 11:19 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by psr View Post

You opened up a closed topic...but I will thank you since more clarification had come to light because of you...

Awwwwwwww... Thank you Sir Ji

**psr** · 08-21-2013, 01:12 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by vishnurajanme View Post

ONE MORE QUESTION

So more FE = a lean mixture

It is bad for my bike, right?
Also, engine is not heating up much.
PSR sir is using the same desnorkeled setup in his ZMA right?
Sir, can you please advice?

Also, how to tag a person in a post here, like tagging using '@' in Facebook?

Wait, again an issue. Just read the quote again

If it adjusts the injector opening based on air pressure value, all my concepts are correct.

Tech savy people, please help.

More than normal aveage FE means Lean AFR, and may be due to Grandpa mode driving

still it is not good for the engine...

I don't run my ZMA-R without snorkel
I opined the removal of snorkel for those who wanted the K&N sound, without compromising on the filtration...

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