Announcement

**psr** · 05-06-2013, 11:07 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

displacement = bore*bore*0.7854*stroke*number of cylinders

Karizma:-
Bore - 65.5 mm
Stroke - 66.2 mm

displacement = 65.5*65.5*0.7854*66.2*1 (mm*mm*mm) = 223065.02757 cubic mm = ~223.06502757 cubic cm. Hence 223 cc

Pulsar 200 NS:-
Bore - 72 mm
Stroke - 49 mm

displacement - 72*72*0.7854*49*1 (mm*mm*mm) = 199504.1664 cubic mm = 199.5051664 cubic cm. Hence ~200 cc.

Now, when I plonk P200NS piston, bore increases to 72mm from 66.2mm and corresponding stroke reduces to approx 57.7 mm or so. (PSR/ACS would better explain how)

Hence displacement = 72*72*0.7854*57.7*1 (mm*mm*mm) = 234926.33472 cubic mm = 234.92633472 cubic cm. Hence ~235 cc.

Hope I was clear.

The Maximum overbore on HH Karizma can be 69mm piston to get 247cc...even then machining of Crank case ,and bore ,must be done to accommodate the bigger sleeve for the 69mm piston...safe overbore maximum is 67mm which will give 233cc....this will not necessitate any crankcase mods

**rreneav1987** · 05-06-2013, 01:12 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by psr View Post

The Maximum overbore on HH Karizma can be 69mm piston to get 247cc...even then machining of Crank case ,and bore ,must be done to accommodate the bigger sleeve for the 69mm piston...safe overbore maximum is 67mm which will give 233cc....this will not necessitate any crankcase mods

Sir.. but by just big bore.. what will be the power output.. I am sorry.. any increase in bhp and torque by this mod??

**Divya Sharan** · 05-06-2013, 03:47 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Sir.. but by just big bore.. what will be the power output.. I am sorry.. any increase in bhp and torque by this mod??

Maybe a couple of horses more, but with a flattened torque curve.

**Bibhudatta** · 05-06-2013, 09:03 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Correct me if I am wrong.. if its an issue with the Tappet.. isn't the noise suppose to appear throughout and not only when you are nearing the idle speed? but get the tappet adjusted to see if that resolves the issue..

If you can get the sound recorded and maybe attach it here.. it might help us identify it..

Is it a squeaking noise?? is the noise coming from the left side or the right side of the engine..?

yep, i kinda agree... but yet to get the root cause... very difficult to get it recorded as am alone at this moment.. but let me try..

it is actually a "kat kat" sound.. very similar one that comes out from the chain when it is tightened beyond a limit OR if sprocket gets worn out OR from a rusted ball bearing. But the thing is the the sound comes only when the bike pulls from a very low speed, so far in the first gear only. However the point to also note is the sound comes occasionally. Not very consistent. I feel as if something is slowly breaking or metal parts slipping over each other...

if not tappet , could it be timing chain producing that kind of a sound ?? or from the gear box ??

**rreneav1987** · 05-06-2013, 09:14 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Bibhudatta View Post

yep, i kinda agree... but yet to get the root cause... very difficult to get it recorded as am alone at this moment.. but let me try..

it is actually a "kat kat" sound.. very similar that comes out from the chain when it is tightened beyond a limit OR if sprocket get worn out OR from a rusted ball bearing. But the thing is the the sound comes only when the bike pulls from a very low speed, so far in the first gear only. However the point to also note is the sound comes occasionally. Not very consistent. I feel as if something is slowly breaking or metal parts slipping over each other...

if not tappet , could it be timing chain producing that kind of a sound ?? or from the gear box ??

Well.. have u ever given a thought about the timings chain?? Could it be the culprit?? Since u say its the sound as if the sprockets are dead.. just a thought.. or could the gearing be d culprit??

**Jayakrishna** · 05-06-2013, 11:23 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Bibhudatta View Post

yep, i kinda agree... but yet to get the root cause... very difficult to get it recorded as am alone at this moment.. but let me try..

it is actually a "kat kat" sound.. very similar one that comes out from the chain when it is tightened beyond a limit OR if sprocket gets worn out OR from a rusted ball bearing. But the thing is the the sound comes only when the bike pulls from a very low speed, so far in the first gear only. However the point to also note is the sound comes occasionally. Not very consistent. I feel as if something is slowly breaking or metal parts slipping over each other...

if not tappet , could it be timing chain producing that kind of a sound ?? or from the gear box ??

Could be either main shaft or clutch shaft bearing is gone.... i had encountered the same kind of noise in first and often in second gear...finaly culprit of mine was the main shaft bearing..did u get it checked at ASC?

Sent from my GT-I9082

**psr** · 05-06-2013, 11:26 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Sir.. but by just big bore.. what will be the power output.. I am sorry.. any increase in bhp and torque by this mod??

Unless the bike is run on Dyno we will not be able to tell the Actual HP gain...For a 247cc mod with corrected Compression the gain in HP will be about 2~3 HP..Higher compression ratios, FFE,carb and jet upgrade,head flow correction all will add more HP depending on the quality of work.....but increase in HP is always at the risk of ,early failure of,Con rod and Crankshaft /bearing failures.....The ZMA/ZMR has the CRF 230 engine which originally was a 200cc which was later overbored to 223cc...so as it is the engine is already running on Big Bore

**Bibhudatta** · 05-06-2013, 11:52 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Jayakrishna View Post

Could be either main shaft or clutch shaft bearing is gone.... i had encountered the same kind of noise in first and often in second gear...finaly culprit of mine was the main shaft bearing..did u get it checked at ASC?

Sent from my GT-I9082

oh thats some helpful info !! thanks bro..!! yep, they had opened my engine to change a couple of parts & had changed my main shaft bearing.. who knows that might be faulty !! let me bring it up to their notice tomorrow...

**vishnurajanme** · 05-07-2013, 12:55 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

I jz shot a complaint message to HH via their website, and wanna know what I got back? An email from HH followed by 8 phone calls, 2 from HH regional office, in cochin, kerala, 4 from main service center, indraprastha motors, thrissur, kerala and 2 from Ariane motors chalakudi where I did my motorcycle's last service. I have been asked by the service managers in both service centers to get my bike to them and they assured me that, the entire issue will be sort out even with an engine job, that too "completely" free of cost... So happy with the customer support. Attaching the support email from HH and my Email too.

Senthilkumar S <[email protected]>

May 5 (1 day ago)

to me, Sivakumar

Dear Sir,

Thanks for contacting M/s Hero MotoCorp Ltd. We regret to note the contents in your mail.

Our Service Executive will get in touch with you shortly.

Assuring our best services at all times.

Regards,
S.Senthil Kumar
----- Forwarded by Senthilkumar S/HMCZ/HMCL on 05/05/2013 11:05 AM -----

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Date: 05/04/2013 10:46 PM
Subject: Hero MotoCorp Ltd.

Query Form :-

Problem Category : Complaint

Nature of Complaint : Service

Name : Vishnu Rajan

Email : [email protected]

Model Name : Karizma ZMR

Dealer : M/s. Ariane Motors & Services,

City : CHALAKUDY

Queries/Suggestions :I am tired with hell of vibrations coming out from my ZMR. After the bike's 3rd service was over, vibrations started to increase. Now between 55 to 65 kmph, I am experiencing a lot of vibrations and from 85, the vibrations increase exponentially. I am feeling like I am sitting in a private bus or a tractor. I have ridden my friend's ZMR who fixed the vibrations with some local mechanic who used double sided tape and rubber tubes between the fairing and tank/other parts. I asked my service center guys to do like that and they told, they donno how to remove vibrations as the ZMR bike is bound to have some amount of vibrations. If you can, point me the name of "ANY" service center in kerala where I can give my bike for service and get rid of the problems. If you can find one, I am keeping this bike. Else I am replacing it with the R15 and I will never ever recommend a hero bike to any of my friends

myheromotocorp.com

**Jayakrishna** · 05-07-2013, 09:25 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Yeah...even I was amazed by the way HMC responds to complaints....still getting things done FOC even after warranty period...

Sent from my GT-I9082

**rreneav1987** · 05-07-2013, 10:27 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by psr View Post

Unless the bike is run on Dyno we will not be able to tell the Actual HP gain...For a 247cc mod with corrected Compression the gain in HP will be about 2~3 HP..Higher compression ratios, FFE,carb and jet upgrade,head flow correction all will add more HP depending on the quality of work.....but increase in HP is always at the risk of ,early failure of,Con rod and Crankshaft /bearing failures.....The ZMA/ZMR has the CRF 230 engine which originally was a 200cc which was later overbored to 223cc...so as it is the engine is already running on Big Bore

Sir, if they have bigbored the engine.. why have they decided not to give the machine enough power..?? its just a question that has been striking my mind every since the launch of P220 dtsi.. when the same 220cc Pulsar can be made to produce more power than the P220dts-fi.. why couldn't Hero Honda increase enough power on the ZMR.. they have increased the weight and now the power to weight ratio is bad compared to ZMA..

Just want to know if you have any idea on why Hero did this..

**veryhiphop** · 05-07-2013, 11:07 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Sir, if they have bigbored the engine.. why have they decided not to give the machine enough power..?? its just a question that has been striking my mind every since the launch of P220 dtsi.. when the same 220cc Pulsar can be made to produce more power than the P220dts-fi.. why couldn't Hero Honda increase enough power on the ZMR.. they have increased the weight and now the power to weight ratio is bad compared to ZMA..

Just want to know if you have any idea on why Hero did this..

May be Honda was not allowing to do so....

Where as Baja has got engine from Kawasaki and now from KTM...and doing there R & D....

I assume; hero has got the blueprints and 2014 will be a change for Hero and for customers...we shall see 250 cc bike

along with other manufactures on same cc...

**bbsrailfan** · 05-07-2013, 11:20 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Sir, if they have bigbored the engine.. why have they decided not to give the machine enough power..?? its just a question that has been striking my mind every since the launch of P220 dtsi.. when the same 220cc Pulsar can be made to produce more power than the P220dts-fi.. why couldn't Hero Honda increase enough power on the ZMR.. they have increased the weight and now the power to weight ratio is bad compared to ZMA..

Just want to know if you have any idea on why Hero did this..

I am no expert myself, but I believe they kept the peak power and peak RPM limits low to keep the engine relaxed and refined, unlike P220 which revs hard and hence, not as refined. It's only the peak power where the ZMR falls below the P220, torque is almost at par with the P220.

**psr** · 05-07-2013, 11:33 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Sir, if they have bigbored the engine.. why have they decided not to give the machine enough power..?? its just a question that has been striking my mind every since the launch of P220 dtsi.. when the same 220cc Pulsar can be made to produce more power than the P220dts-fi.. why couldn't Hero Honda increase enough power on the ZMR.. they have increased the weight and now the power to weight ratio is bad compared to ZMA..

Just want to know if you have any idea on why Hero did this..

The Karizma produces only 17bhp...but if you use it ,...can you believe it has only that much power...the bike never feels loss of power with a pillion of 60~70 Kgs...and it can cruise all day at 110 Kmph...and return 38~45 kms FE.....there is very less report of engine problems ,and hence is the preferred tourer for many....there are almost nill report of the engine consuming oil or going bad at 20 K kms, and the engine is very reliable...All of this is because the engine is Less Stressed .Honda had a reason of Reliability of the less stressed engine in mind, since in the Long run it is the Reliable engine which will stand the rigors of Sustained Use...Ask any ZMA/ZMR owner about vibes or if they are unhappy with engine performance....the majority will answer in the negative, and invariably will prefer another Honda engine only...
Any engine with Vibration , reliability issues,and cost of maintenance or repeated maintenance issues will not be generally preferred for long time ownership...
The only complaint against the engine will be that it is boring....because it can do 110~120 Kmph without shaking the rider to bits, or fear of seizure of engine, or nasty surprise of engine going kaput at those speeds....but the bike cannot do more than 125 kmph..while it feels it can do more..
I personally feel HH kept the bike this way due to both their tie up agreement with Honda, and the Reliability factor
Trust ,Reliability and appreciation are built over time ...

**rreneav1987** · 05-07-2013, 11:39 AM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by psr View Post

The Karizma produces only 17bhp...but if you use it can you believe it has only that much power...the bike never feels loss of power with a pillion of 60~70 Kgs...and it can cruise all day at 110 Kmph...and return 38~45 kms FE.....there is very less report of engine problems ,and hence is the preferred tourer for many....there are almost nill report of the engine consuming oil or going bad at 20 K kms, and the engine is very reliable...All of this is because the engine is Less Stressed .Honda had a reason of Reliability of the less stressed engine in mind, since in the Long run it is the Reliable engine which will stand the rigors of Sustained Use...Ask any ZMA/ZMR owner about vibes or if they are unhappy with engine performance....the majority will answer in the negative, and invariably will prefer another Honda engine only...
Any engine with Vibration , reliability issues,and cost of maintenance or repeated maintenance issues will not be generally preferred for long time ownership...
Trust ,Reliability and appreciation are built over time ...

Very True.. I never felt my ZMR or ZMA underpowered on the highways.. cruised at 115 kmph from pollachi to Chennai and reached Chennai in 9 hrs.. continuous ride.. with a pillion.. I am not trying to compare a Pulsar engine with ZMR/ZMA engine..

I owned the 2003 Karizma.. one of the 1st models that was launched in Chennai and now the ZMR 2010.. no problems with the ZMR till now (touchwood) but i did face few issues with the ZMA initially but later everything was cool and problem free

Thanks for the explanation to why Hero made ZMA/ZMR this way

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Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

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