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**petrolhead_chn** · 08-10-2013, 08:58 AM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Maybe true. But i would prefer to go with a hero engine over the honda engine.. :-) i would love to see the Indian brand take on Honda who recently went through a break up..

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I second that opinion. Buying Indian products ensures that we support our Indian economy. One of my friend used to preach about this all the time. I guess he is true.
If you notice, more foreign brands are getting into India and we are referring to just automobile sector here.

Consider the ratio of foreign brands in India to Indian brands abroad - isn't it too much on the lower end? How many countries are crazy about Indian bikes except for a few which is far unknown? If this continues I guess we are going back to the pre-independence era. I am not at all trying to be patriotic or emotional but I just wish this scenario turns around in such a way that Indian brands are in demand all over the world

. Hope

**sibun** · 08-10-2013, 12:50 PM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

I would like to go hero as my next bike, as the trust and service that it has given is unmatched.

Regarding economy then let me add a simple fact that our economy will develop if and only if we are a producing nation and not consuming nation. With foreign giants coming we have become a consuming nation than producing nation. So without gong into complex algorithm let me add here that if in a family you only buy and consume automatically your income will decrease and if you produce then it will increase. So our country is like a giant family and we are its member, so unless we produce something then how will our economy improve.

I wish Hero to give a tough fight to Honda and not only Hero but also bajaj and TVS, also must fight it out. But the problem is nohing with the companies or products but within the mind of people. Now-a-days from needle to car everything people want is imported. Morning you get up and first thing you want is toothpaste which should be imported. This is just an example and we use many foreign brands.

Same thing goes here as any company will do buisness if and only if it gets profit and they are doing that only. So unless we people decides then only we can get the economy back, no government and policy can change it .

**Bibhu** · 08-10-2013, 01:43 PM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by sibun View Post

I would like to go hero as my next bike, as the trust and service that it has given is unmatched.

Regarding economy then let me add a simple fact that our economy will develop if and only if we are a producing nation and not consuming nation. With foreign giants coming we have become a consuming nation than producing nation. So without gong into complex algorithm let me add here that if in a family you only buy and consume automatically your income will decrease and if you produce then it will increase. So our country is like a giant family and we are its member, so unless we produce something then how will our economy improve.

I wish Hero to give a tough fight to Honda and not only Hero but also bajaj and TVS, also must fight it out. But the problem is nohing with the companies or products but within the mind of people. Now-a-days from needle to car everything people want is imported. Morning you get up and first thing you want is toothpaste which should be imported. This is just an example and we use many foreign brands.

Same thing goes here as any company will do buisness if and only if it gets profit and they are doing that only. So unless we people decides then only we can get the economy back, no government and policy can change it .

Fully agree with you there.. It is because of companies like hero and bajaj, the dream of owning an indian superbike may not be too far. I am not going to throw away money by buying a bike at double its price just because its imported.

It is the basic Indian mindset that in order to be good it has to be imported. What is not understood by such people is, when you choose an overseas product over a competeing indian one, you are killing your own country's economy by putting money in a foreign investor's pocket.

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**nitrosatya** · 08-10-2013, 01:46 PM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by sibun View Post

I would like to go hero as my next bike, as the trust and service that it has given is unmatched.

Regarding economy then let me add a simple fact that our economy will develop if and only if we are a producing nation and not consuming nation. With foreign giants coming we have become a consuming nation than producing nation. So without gong into complex algorithm let me add here that if in a family you only buy and consume automatically your income will decrease and if you produce then it will increase. So our country is like a giant family and we are its member, so unless we produce something then how will our economy improve.

I wish Hero to give a tough fight to Honda and not only Hero but also bajaj and TVS, also must fight it out. But the problem is nohing with the companies or products but within the mind of people. Now-a-days from needle to car everything people want is imported. Morning you get up and first thing you want is toothpaste which should be imported. This is just an example and we use many foreign brands.

Same thing goes here as any company will do buisness if and only if it gets profit and they are doing that only. So unless we people decides then only we can get the economy back, no government and policy can change it .

My friend! We will win!

I come from automobile design background. I have seen the passion and fire in the young generation of Indian riders! I have worked on some motorcycle projects in my college days. And I can assure we have the best of the best talent in India!

But the problem is the old management. People who have no interest in bikes are managing the big companies in India. Bajaj was the first to change and they are gradually transforming! TVS has hit the panic button and will soon change. Hero has invested heavily on R&D and soon you will see the new form.

I can say this because there is a frenzied activity with Bajaj,Hero and TVS and all design colleges in India. This means they are preparing for the future Indian generation. The generation who will not be satisfied with low end when they see their counterparts enjoying high end abroad. Bless the information technology in India! If not for them the next Indian generation would never know what a high end motorcycle is!

In a nutshell this is nothing but a generation gap between old face of Indian companies and the new one!

This is the time when we see the new face of Indian motorcycles for the new Indians! Jai Hind!

**riazmomin** · 08-10-2013, 02:35 PM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by payeng View Post

With Hero developing its own engines to replace the ones on the Splendor/Passion and other models, it's becoming clear that Honda isn't giving Hero the licence to use the Sochiro Honda developed gems post 2014.

If this is the status, then I see Hero being steamrolled by Honda in a couple of years.. and once the Honda engines are replaced, even the remaining Hero loyalists at xBhp will shift towards Honda.

For Honda, it is Hero that is Enemy No. 1 in India.

Hero has reach, brand and Good will. This was achieved because of their work done in last 30 years. No mater how great or good a bike is, it at least takes 3 to 4 years to gain good will. Right now Honda has presence in Urban market and hardly you will see their bikes in rural markets (which are ruled by Hero, Bajaj and TVS).

I dont think Hero was just idle in past 5 to 6 years considering they might be having their long term strategic plans. With in 1 year they are capable of developing their own engines and ready to launch. This shows how prepared Hero was for the divorce. And being steam rolled by Honda, I dont think it might be so easy for Honda to do or even possible.

Hero can simply replace the engine on their current 125cc and 100cc bikes and simply advertise with their current names. For a general customer, they hardly care about it. All they want is durability, Good A.S.S. and resale (And Hero is known for it). Coming to the fraction of Enthusiasts that are on xbhp, it doesn't matter because no one here is looking for a sub 125cc bikes. And the bikes 150cc and above might be developed with help of EBR, EE and AVL. Each of these three are quite known and are capable of giving good engines.

Agree to the last line though.

**Naveen1985** · 08-10-2013, 10:40 PM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by nadz11.ns View Post

we can compare Hero's failure to Nokia's.. both were market leaders and had so much in their hands., but lost it all in releasing the same models with slight modifications over n over again..if Hero really wants to get into the market, ut has to deliver something really mind-blowing.. or else the rivals would crush its dominance even in the sub 100cc section..wish Hero could see the discussion happening in this thread and learn something as to what the customers want..

Btw, some creative names there @Divya Sharan

you cannot compare hero with nokia because hero is still no 1 and that too by a very healthy margin....hero is still hero even after two years of its divorce with honda because honda has eaten up tvs and bajaj and upto some extent hero also but the difference maker is their scooter segment not bikes. don't forget hero is ready with 12 new products/refresh models which will boost their sales for sure. they are taking time but they will comeback soon....

lets come to the sticker part...
yamaha has given fz more sticker updates than any other bike in india in past 4 years. honda is also on the same path as they have produced dream yuga from shine and dream neo from dream yuga, now their team will take another dream and their company will be ready with a new kid. Unicorm is there from past 8-9 years with names like repsol edition, cb unicorn (new name with new air filter), however honda is pretty much capable in R&D but still honda is silent from past several years. They served nothing special on the table with dazzler and cb trigger neither on design front nor on technology. On that front yamaha has done a spectacular job with fz but they are not upgrading it with a better engine (my friend selected fz over karizma zma just due its looks as he was having no other option with good looks and power). tvs has used their same 100-110 cc mill in numerous bikes with sticker updates. my point is each and every bike maker in india is doing stickering apart from bajaj which is upgrading its products at regular intervals and i respect them for this. So stop blaming hero only....

**rreneav1987** · 08-10-2013, 10:45 PM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by Naveen1985 View Post

you cannot compare hero with nokia because hero is still no 1 and that too by a very healthy margin....hero is still hero even after two years of its divorce with honda because honda has eaten up tvs and bajaj and upto some extent hero also but the difference maker is their scooter segment not bikes. don't forget hero is ready with 12 new products/refresh models which will boost their sales for sure. they are taking time but they will comeback soon....

lets come to the sticker part...
yamaha has given fz more sticker updates than any other bike in india in past 4 years. honda is also on the same path as they have produced dream yuga from shine and dream neo from dream yuga, now their team will take another dream and their company will be ready with a new kid. Unicorm is there from past 8-9 years with names like repsol edition, cb unicorn (new name with new air filter), however honda is pretty much capable in R&D but still honda is silent from past several years. They served nothing special on the table with dazzler and cb trigger neither on design front nor on technology. On that front yamaha has done a spectacular job with fz but they are not upgrading it with a better engine (my friend selected fz over karizma zma just due its looks as he was having no other option with good looks and power). tvs has used their same 100-110 cc mill in numerous bikes with sticker updates. my point is each and every bike maker in india is doing stickering apart from bajaj which is upgrading its products at regular intervals and i respect them for this. So stop blaming hero only....

True indeed.. i had the same thought. But yes.. even bajaj does the colour schemes and sticker job.. see their pulsars in the past 4 years.. except the 200ns.. a minor tweek on the 180 but everything else same.. so why blame only hero??

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**nadz11.ns** · 08-10-2013, 10:54 PM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by Naveen1985 View Post

you cannot compare hero with nokia because hero is still no 1 and that too by a very healthy margin....hero is still hero even after two years of its divorce with honda because honda has eaten up tvs and bajaj and upto some extent hero also but the difference maker is their scooter segment not bikes. don't forget hero is ready with 12 new products/refresh models which will boost their sales for sure. they are taking time but they will comeback soon....

lets come to the sticker part...
yamaha has given fz more sticker updates than any other bike in india in past 4 years. honda is also on the same path as they have produced dream yuga from shine and dream neo from dream yuga, now their team will take another dream and their company will be ready with a new kid. Unicorm is there from past 8-9 years with names like repsol edition, cb unicorn (new name with new air filter), however honda is pretty much capable in R&D but still honda is silent from past several years. They served nothing special on the table with dazzler and cb trigger neither on design front nor on technology. On that front yamaha has done a spectacular job with fz but they are not upgrading it with a better engine (my friend selected fz over karizma zma just due its looks as he was having no other option with good looks and power). tvs has used their same 100-110 cc mill in numerous bikes with sticker updates. my point is each and every bike maker in india is doing stickering apart from bajaj which is upgrading its products at regular intervals and i respect them for this. So stop blaming hero only....

Well, its not like any blame game.. What you have pointed out is true and every company is following this.. But not all are loosing its market.. Yamaha with FZ has been successful in the mid-range market and they haven't updated her much for 4-5 years.. But their market share is growing.. Same with Honda and Bajaj..
when a company isn't doing well, they need to come up with something different.. Changing colours with minor tweeks mingh have worked for Yamaha and Honda, but not with Hero (certainly not presently)

**Naveen1985** · 08-10-2013, 11:15 PM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by payeng View Post

With Hero developing its own engines to replace the ones on the Splendor/Passion and other models, it's becoming clear that Honda isn't giving Hero the licence to use the Sochiro Honda developed gems post 2014.

If this is the status, then I see Hero being steamrolled by Honda in a couple of years.. and once the Honda engines are replaced, even the remaining Hero loyalists at xBhp will shift towards Honda.

For Honda, it is Hero that is Enemy No. 1 in India.

have a bet sir....honda will not be able to come even closer to hero in next couple of years....
you think people will start buying dream neo from the next day after splendor's heart replacement...???? or you think hero will plonk a engine borrowed from their mopeds to their bikes...??? and how can you forget bajaj factor....??? 6 new discovers and other capable new products like centuro will eat dream series on their breakfast table. nothing can come close to the goodwill of hero, maruti, tata trucks and many other brands in a couple of years....honda is fighting with bajaj and tvs not hero....sorry for little OT but maruti is selling close to 60000 cars with same fiat diesel engine (which was developed by fiat and GM) where as fiat, GM, Tata combined are not able to sale even 10000 cars in that segment, even newly launched honda amaze is eating sales of honda''s own honda city rather than denting other cars which means people in india buy goodwill upto some extent....they switch only if that brand betrays them....and hero will not do this....

**abhi7013** · 08-11-2013, 01:32 AM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

You know why the British were able to conquer and rule us? Or why the mughals could defeat many Hindu kings? Cause we kept competing and fighting with each other. No unity. It made matters easier for the outsiders.
Coming back to the present, do you find any difference between how our attitudes were then, and how it is now? I'd say there's no change. We keep comparing hero and bajaj, people fighting everywhere regarding which is superior. Both bajaj and hero have already made us proud. Take any other segment apart from automobiles. Is there any segment which is dominated by an indian brand like how hero and bajaj rule our streets? Now both brands are going a step ahead and trying to introduce their products abroad.

I hated bajaj during the time of booking my zmr. But now if you ask me, bajaj has put far more effort and now you can see it improve its quality and also technology which according to me hero could not. Now that honda has been removed from the equation, certainly I hope hero brings in something different to the market.

I know its silly but I keep wishing if only hero and bajaj could merge, they would show the world what India is capable of.
Man that's one wish which is so damn far-fetched!!

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**petrolhead_chn** · 08-11-2013, 05:53 AM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

You know why the British were able to conquer and rule us? Or why the mughals could defeat many Hindu kings? Cause we kept competing and fighting with each other. No unity. It made matters easier for the outsiders.

That is true! Like I mentioned in my previous post, we keep buying overseas collaborated products, we end up going to pre-independence era. Somebody will reap the benefits and exploit the potential.

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

I keep wishing if only hero and bajaj could merge, they would show the world what India is capable of.
Man that's one wish which is so damn far-fetched!!

Wow! That is indeed too much to ask

.
Can you expect Rajinikanth and Kamalhaasan to get along and act in a movie?

BTW, every company strives to make profit and keep its share holders happy. Consider this, company A makes 150cc bikes with certain features and company B does the same with certain features. There is tough competition between the products and buyers are offered choice. But out of confusion and lack of information to take a decision, they might choose another option which might be an overseas collaborated product.

To me, the competition should be equally split, something like company A makes just 100cc bikes and B makes just 150cc bikes. It may sound invalid but I guess every company will have its share in the market and play within its boundaries. However they could also keep upgrading the features and performances of their products as an effort to keep up their market value.

I also feel that majority of the bikes designed these days are for younger generation who depend on loans. With all due respect, even while applying for loans, people should go for nationalized banks such as SBI, Indian bank, Bank of Baroda, etc., instead of HSBC, Citi, Duetchse, etc., This again drains our economy in a way.

I mean, all this could sound trivial and unnecessary, but when put in to practicality it will have its own pros and cons. Things should turn around and am sure it will turn around.

**rreneav1987** · 08-11-2013, 07:44 AM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by petrolhead_chn View Post

That is true! Like I mentioned in my previous post, we keep buying overseas collaborated products, we end up going to pre-independence era. Somebody will reap the benefits and exploit the potential.

Wow! That is indeed too much to ask

.
Can you expect Rajinikanth and Kamalhaasan to get along and act in a movie?

BTW, every company strives to make profit and keep its share holders happy. Consider this, company A makes 150cc bikes with certain features and company B does the same with certain features. There is tough competition between the products and buyers are offered choice. But out of confusion and lack of information to take a decision, they might choose another option which might be an overseas collaborated product.

To me, the competition should be equally split, something like company A makes just 100cc bikes and B makes just 150cc bikes. It may sound invalid but I guess every company will have its share in the market and play within its boundaries. However they could also keep upgrading the features and performances of their products as an effort to keep up their market value.

I also feel that majority of the bikes designed these days are for younger generation who depend on loans. With all due respect, even while applying for loans, people should go for nationalized banks such as SBI, Indian bank, Bank of Baroda, etc., instead of HSBC, Citi, Duetchse, etc., This again drains our economy in a way.

I mean, all this could sound trivial and unnecessary, but when put in to practicality it will have its own pros and cons. Things should turn around and am sure it will turn around.

No wonder why I use a Spice Mobile brand ;-), a Hero Zmr.. i usually go for Indian brand and this is one of the major reasons that is pulling me backnfrom getting the duke390.. but like what you have mentioned in your post.. if we have no good options from our indian brands with all those features and power that the d390 offers.. i am left with no choice.. :-( at the end spending that much money has to be worth it.. waiting for hero to launch a 300+cc bike but that seems like its gonna take another year.. i dont have confidence in bajaj product because of the bad experience i had in the past.. but seeing the reviews on 200ns.. it appears as bajaj has finally pulled up its shorts with tight elastic.. but am just worried that the elastic would give up easily.. if pulsar 375 is worth.. i would go for it.. :-) but i have always been a hero fan from childhood..

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**petrolhead_chn** · 08-11-2013, 08:16 AM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

No wonder why I use a Spice Mobile brand ;-), a Hero Zmr.. i usually go for Indian brand and this is one of the major reasons that is pulling me backnfrom getting the duke390.. but like what you have mentioned in your post.. if we have no good options from our indian brands with all those features and power that the d390 offers.. i am left with no choice.. :-( at the end spending that much money has to be worth it.. waiting for hero to launch a 300+cc bike but that seems like its gonna take another year.. i dont have confidence in bajaj product because of the bad experience i had in the past.. but seeing the reviews on 200ns.. it appears as bajaj has finally pulled up its shorts with tight elastic.. but am just worried that the elastic would give up easily.. if pulsar 375 is worth.. i would go for it.. :-) but i have always been a hero fan from childhood..

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Feel proud that you are using Indian brands. I am sure it would take time for a 300cc bike coming out from Hero stables. I am sure there has to be a reason for the delay. It could be R&D or collaboration plans for technology or something which should be known only to people in high chairs. It will be worth it as the company is already experienced in producing power motorcycles in India.

However, I sincerely wonder if that much power could be truly enjoyed in one's daily commutes or daily Indian roads. Leave aside the highways. Though our highways cannot be compared to that in an overseas country, it does offer some elasticity to test the bike's max. I mean, I am not saying this particularly to you but in general. Maybe this could also be a reason why Hero is delaying high powered bike to get it accustomed to our Indian styles.

**rreneav1987** · 08-11-2013, 08:24 AM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by petrolhead_chn View Post

Feel proud that you are using Indian brands. I am sure it would take time for a 300cc bike coming out from Hero stables. I am sure there has to be a reason for the delay. It could be R&D or collaboration plans for technology or something which should be known only to people in high chairs. It will be worth it as the company is already experienced in producing power motorcycles in India.

However, I sincerely wonder if that much power could be truly enjoyed in one's daily commutes or daily Indian roads. Leave aside the highways. Though our highways cannot be compared to that in an overseas country, it does offer some elasticity to test the bike's max. I mean, I am not saying this particularly to you but in general. Maybe this could also be a reason why Hero is delaying high powered bike to get it accustomed to our Indian styles.

Well.. the roads up in North are straight straight and straight.. :-) wide enough to stay in a constant 130+ on the speedo.. i just want a bike that can do easily 130+ constantly without much strain to the engine.. me into touring.. :-)

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**petrolhead_chn** · 08-11-2013, 08:26 AM

re: Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Well.. the roads up in North are straight straight and straight.. :-) wide enough to stay in a constant 130+ on the speedo.. i just want a bike that can do easily 130+ constantly without much strain to the engine.. me into touring.. :-)

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Hero 250 caught testing: xBhp News

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