Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

[kauria]

Recently I have seen the charging voltage of my RTR (Modified charging system with a P220 RR unit bust stock coil) reduced to 14.55 volt from 16.64 volt. And hence the horn sound is poor when HID is on. With HID on currently I am getting approx 13.5 v of charging voltage. I thought that some how the ungrounded negative was disturbed and hence the low voltage. I checked all the wires, they are just ok. But the charging is low enough to run HID and horns at a time. Any idea?

Secondly, I was thinking of a proper 3 phase magneto unit, as I am already using a 3 phase RR unit from P220. I have 8 poles in my magneto; now hoe to rewinding the magneto for proper 3 phase RR unit.

Lastly I was thinking to put a 220 magneto in my RTR, is that possible? Any body has any idea about the size of the 220 magneto coil and its price. Will it fit in my RTR engine? Need help.

[sajjt]

Recently I have seen the charging voltage of my RTR (Modified charging system with a P220 RR unit bust stock coil) reduced to 14.55 volt from 16.64 volt. And hence the horn sound is poor when HID is on. With HID on currently I am getting approx 13.5 v of charging voltage. I thought that some how the ungrounded negative was disturbed and hence the low voltage. I checked all the wires, they are just ok. But the charging is low enough to run HID and horns at a time. Any idea?

Secondly, I was thinking of a proper 3 phase magneto unit, as I am already using a 3 phase RR unit from P220. I have 8 poles in my magneto; now hoe to rewinding the magneto for proper 3 phase RR unit.

Lastly I was thinking to put a 220 magneto in my RTR, is that possible? Any body has any idea about the size of the 220 magneto coil and its price. Will it fit in my RTR engine? Need help.

Dude, I would repeat my last query on charging rates, at least what the current ur battery gets on no load? That will clarify everything bcz if ur charging rate is lower than the required, battery will be in stress and in long term it can lose its performance. U r using a 3 phase RR and utilizing only 1 pole (am I wrong) so the charging rates will be low compared to re-winded coil with APE RR. At the time of swapping RR the batt would've been in its good condition and now it may be bit worn out and that could be the reason its hardly supporting the loads. Its just an assumption from my side.

I would say its not practical on a single phase stator coil, u have only 8 poles to wind where as on a 3 phase, u need a minimum of 3 poles per phase that is 9 poles u required. Running short of one pole wont contribute anything better than now.

U've chosen a wrong track to proceed with, the more u go the more u've to spend on to correct it. If I were u, I would go for the coil rewinding and plonk the APE RR but being with the budget constraints, I can advice u to go for coil rewinding with 19/17G wire with the P220 RR and try out, it may come out well but nothing better than a single phase RR like APE RR. If thats also not going work then settle with the one and only APE RR

Rule of Thumb: If u r trying a new system there should not be any budgetary controls.

[gajah_gendut]

Hi Gajah,

there is same problem with UG3 also, the BCU won't take DC straight away, we need to bypass BCU+ switch gear to make Full DC.

Is you digital console backlights working in running condition? after conversion?

yup. led backlight is still working.
i used bajaj pulsar 135 consoles. not plug and play, but had to mods their wires, horns switch, kill switch and electric starter switch.


in my country, BCU for P180/P200 is about IDR450,000. The console about IDR 300,000/pairs. But Pulsar 135's only IDR 160,000/pairs.

you'll have mechanical console switch with working backlights.

[NANOtechnology]

i need to put some of my queries too after listening to sajit.

believe it or not guys, i am facing issues to run both the HID's together.
i simply cannot do it today for more than 5 minutes that too on highways at full throttle, and these 5 mins are those in which light turns very very dim and then its hardly visible on the road and then the high beam flickers and turns off

i have done single phase rewinding with single phase rr unit, 19 guage as you all already know.
i thought the issue would be my stock coil output wires that lead to the rr unit, but lately even with a single beam at idling, the tacho stops working !!!

i asked Dr and Abhi about this before, but i dunno, maybe my battery is dead and fried, but it never got more than 14.5 volts, then how could it happen ??

but i can run nicely with a single beam though...
any ideas??

[drvmtm]

i need to put some of my queries too after listening to sajit.

believe it or not guys, i am facing issues to run both the HID's together.
i simply cannot do it today for more than 5 minutes that too on highways at full throttle, and these 5 mins are those in which light turns very very dim and then its hardly visible on the road and then the high beam flickers and turns off

i have done single phase rewinding with single phase rr unit, 19 guage as you all already know.
i thought the issue would be my stock coil output wires that lead to the rr unit, but lately even with a single beam at idling, the tacho stops working !!!

i asked Dr and Abhi about this before, but i dunno, maybe my battery is dead and fried, but it never got more than 14.5 volts, then how could it happen ??

but i can run nicely with a single beam though...
any ideas??

soory for givin late answer nano,,

you have the following probs---

1. the coil is underwinded to pull two hids
2. the coil is underwinded to pull two hids
3. the coil is underwinded to pull two hids
4. the coil is underwinded to pull two hids
5. the coil is underwinded to pull two hids....

sorry cant help it to stress this,look at your data,one hid fine ,no prob but 2 hid no go.
I TOLD YOU TO CHECK THE AMP BUT YOU DIDNT. PLEASE CHECK THEM AND SATISFY YOURSELF THAT.....the coil is underwinded to pull two hids!!

[NANOtechnology]

okay doc.
i understand the coil is underwinded to pull 2 hid's, but then why did it always did for all these 5 months ??
besides, again if that is the case, then why does my tacho stops working (everytime on idling) and everything else goes terribly weak even with a single bulb ?????

guess what, in the daytime (without load) the horn can make people deaf, but 3-4 mins of LOW BEAM itself can make horn just beep in the same evening !!!

is my battery gone @#$@#$ ??

[drvmtm]

Recently I have seen the charging voltage of my RTR (Modified charging system with a P220 RR unit bust stock coil) reduced to 14.55 volt from 16.64 volt. And hence the horn sound is poor when HID is on. With HID on currently I am getting approx 13.5 v of charging voltage. I thought that some how the ungrounded negative was disturbed and hence the low voltage. I checked all the wires, they are just ok. But the charging is low enough to run HID and horns at a time. Any idea?

Secondly, I was thinking of a proper 3 phase magneto unit, as I am already using a 3 phase RR unit from P220. I have 8 poles in my magneto; now hoe to rewinding the magneto for proper 3 phase RR unit.

Lastly I was thinking to put a 220 magneto in my RTR, is that possible? Any body has any idea about the size of the 220 magneto coil and its price. Will it fit in my RTR engine? Need help.

first of all you are running one coil 4 pole winded 22~24 awg may be to a single phase unit of a 3PHASE coil which is basically wrong,its a wrong condition in where the rr will go for a toss ultimately .you ask any bajaj probiking engeneer that a non working phase coil will never good,thats why they change it,you can backcheck the data on the net also,
THE 16+VOLTAGE IS ALSO NOT GOOD,MAX VOLTAGE SHOULD NEVER EXCEED 15.6~15.9DC.

a p 220 s stator is impossivle to fit in ......see

pic courtesy hunky....

3 phase in a 8 pole system,possible but amp outout will stay in region of 2~3 amps if you delta config,and if you use Y config its even less,no use at all,better dump that idea.

the single phase rr that you gave to syan that gave a voltage of 14.5 volts from 1.5 k rpm to peak with a 55/60 bulb with a relay,and you will be amazed to know with loads of 55+60w=115watt(low beam +flash) it maintained 13+volts from 3k rpm.
the problem was as i said you that time also the winding was a bit less which can be easily corrected by a rewindind and in sayans case its proven that i was right,.
fellow xbhpian lijok also sent me his coil of his rtr which i rewinded for him and now he is using the coil with ape rr no issues at all.
it seems the rtr s r better suited for dc convertion as they have 8 poles in the stator so the rpm variation of voltage is less the pulsar.
a stator of p220 will cost ~900inr approx.

i would suddest u go for a rewinding with a 19 awg wire(19.5)to be exact=200inr,and ape rr =800inr.

and i totally agree with sajjit.

[drvmtm]

okay doc.
i understand the coil is underwinded to pull 2 hid's, but then why did it always did for all these 5 months ??
besides, again if that is the case, then why does my tacho stops working (everytime on idling) and everything else goes terribly weak even with a single bulb ?????

guess what, in the daytime (without load) the horn can make people deaf, but 3-4 mins of LOW BEAM itself can make horn just beep in the same evening !!!

is my battery gone @#$@#$ ??

it wasnt pushed to the limit i guess,with my exp the the coil with 19 gauge cannot pull hid 2 at a time for more then 2 hours,now this can vary with magnt spower,guessing fierros have better magnets then pulsysit can strech 2~3 hours.frankly speaking no one rides with 2 hids for that much tme.so the battery went for a deep discharge cycles repeatedly and may be its giving up now.

i cant be sure as you still dont have amp fig of the system.check the amps with a fully charged battery,then we can go from there.....
what say?

[aargee]

Guys - seeking your opinion on coil winding, someone pls throw some light

I'm planning to upgrade to 60/55 on my Activa; I know the lighting coil has to be wound & the RR unit to be changed. So my questions are...
- What should I look when winding up coil; I don't want to simply trust someone & give him to get a shoddy job. So if anyone can help me understand the insights of coil winding & how to check quality job, it is greatly appreciated.
- On the RR unit, can I use any RR unit that supports 60/55 or should I look for anything specific? Some pointers on this is also appreciated.

[sajjt]

Guys - seeking your opinion on coil winding, someone pls throw some light

I'm planning to upgrade to 60/55 on my Activa; I know the lighting coil has to be wound & the RR unit to be changed. So my questions are...
- What should I look when winding up coil; I don't want to simply trust someone & give him to get a shoddy job. So if anyone can help me understand the insights of coil winding & how to check quality job, it is greatly appreciated.
- On the RR unit, can I use any RR unit that supports 60/55 or should I look for anything specific? Some pointers on this is also appreciated.

Aargee, there's nothing much to do from ur side if u r giving it to an auto electrician. Check for the winding patterns it should be neat, without any gaps and the overlapings etc. are very clear to a good winder. Honda stator coils are winded very neatly than Pulsars so u can give'm an idea by showing the stock winding pattern but its not an easily achievable task as its not manually winded. Properly winded coil will give optimum performance so tell him to do it as neat as possible.

There r two things to be considered when u go for RR swap.

Option 1: DC conversion = Coil Rewind+APE RR
Option 2: AC+DC with higher watts lighting support= Coil Rewind+Pulsar AC+DC coil. Advantage is no messing up of wires other than replacing the RR

For using 55/60W halogen, both will do but DC conversion will be at a higher cost

For an econo mod, I would suggest for P150 AC+DC RR (Rs.350 approx) Unlike from the other bikes Honda breeds need to change the RR also along with the coil rewinding to improve the lighting output evenif its AC.

For AC+DC lighting, one should rewind the coil with higher guage wire in the stock manner (one of the lighting coil end is grounded)

[aargee]

First @Sajjt, cheatta - Thanks for a NEAT reply

Check for the winding patterns it should be neat, without any gaps and the overlapings etc.

Err...I'd bought a 90/100 from a reputed supplier & there were copper wires overlapping, but no gaps. Are you saying those are bad jobs? I'll ensure there're no gaps.

Option 1: DC conversion = Coil Rewind+APE RR
Option 2: AC+DC with higher watts lighting support= Coil Rewind+Pulsar AC+DC coil. Advantage is no messing up of wires other than replacing the RR

I'm not worried on costs, but would anyday prefer a neat, clean, straight forward, long term & quality (whew !!! lol) job.

On option 2, why do I need to change the Pulsar coil? Actually, I didn't understand the work to be done on point #2. Can you elaborate pls? I don't mind a HID on Activa (not DIO) on longer terms.

Asking out of curiosity - when it comes to replacing the RR unit, why do everyone prefer APE's RR unit? I remember seeing this mentioned even on HID thread. Why is that APE's RR unit takes a special icing?

Unlike from the other bikes Honda breeds need to change the RR also along with the coil rewinding to improve the lighting output evenif its AC.

I thought every vehicle WILL have their RR units changed when a coil rewinding is done.

For AC+DC lighting, one should rewind the coil with higher guage wire in the stock manner (one of the lighting coil end is grounded)

Oh!!! Tks for the tip; I thought they would simply wind additional copper wire of same guage but more in length. Never new a higher guage will be required. Tks.

All said, I'd need some insights on point #2 said above.

[sajjt]

First @Sajjt, cheatta - Thanks for a NEAT reply


Err...I'd bought a 90/100 from a reputed supplier & there were copper wires overlapping, but no gaps. Are you saying those are bad jobs? I'll ensure there're no gaps.

I guess u meant a coil which can be used for 90/100 halo. Am I wrong? Have a close look on stock coil's winding pattern u'll know what I meant, especially Honda coils are not manual winded, they are neat and will produce more output than a Pulsy coil.

Honda Unicorn Alt:



This is Pulsar coil:

On option 2, why do I need to change the Pulsar coil? Actually, I didn't understand the work to be done on point #2. Can you elaborate pls? I don't mind a HID on Activa (not DIO) on longer terms.

If u want to use a HID on ur Honda and if u've less city drives then just coil rewinding is enough. But on city drives especially B2B traffic u'll be left alone with a useless battery as the charging rates are not adequate.

Using a halogen on AC/DC, u need to rewind + RR swap Honda breeds. They are using a single coil for lighting+charging whereas on others utilizes 2 coils for the above functions. If u do only rewinding for halogen usage, the RR wont permit the extra amps to the lighting circuit and the part of the extra current will be going to the battery. This is why I said for highway drives u can use a HID without RR swap. I hope its clear now.

Asking out of curiosity - when it comes to replacing the RR unit, why do everyone prefer APE's RR unit? I remember seeing this mentioned even on HID thread. Why is that APE's RR unit takes a special icing?

U can use any higher rated single phase RR which can pump a min of 8A to support a HID. APE RR can pump max of 20A, so if u've any future upgrades too, this small box is capable of supplying what ever it gets from the coil. There are other options but this one I've tried and tested first on my bike and others also following it just bcz of its reliability and ease of procuring

APE RR is feeding a 50AH battery on OE, thats how I got some idea about its capability.

I thought every vehicle WILL have their RR units changed when a coil rewinding is done.

Oh!!! Tks for the tip; I thought they would simply wind additional copper wire of same guage but more in length. Never new a higher guage will be required. Tks.

All said, I'd need some insights on point #2 said above.

For Pulsar and other types(using two coils for L&B) coil rewinding is enough for a halogen upgrade. MY bike was running with a 90/100W on the stock dome and changed it 3 times bz of the immense heat. But the 90/100W was a real addiction till I changed to HID.

[aargee]

Oh!!! You meant Pulsar as bike & not Pulsar coil as such!!! I misundertood that point. Ok, I'm more than clear as you've confirmed all my understanding is right.

I'll get the coil rewinding done through a competitive guy, will find out & post here. I'll also buy RR unit of APE & fix them.

No I won't be opting for HID; also any insight on the headlamp assy? I guess when I use 60/55, I should be changing the headlamps & holder too right? Or the stock one is sufficient? Any suggestions?

Thanks @Sajjt for your elaborated replies.

[kauria]

first of all you are running one coil 4 pole winded 22~24 awg may be to a single phase unit of a 3PHASE coil which is basically wrong,its a wrong condition in where the rr will go for a toss ultimately .you ask any bajaj probiking engeneer that a non working phase coil will never good,thats why they change it,you can backcheck the data on the net also,
THE 16+VOLTAGE IS ALSO NOT GOOD,MAX VOLTAGE SHOULD NEVER EXCEED 15.6~15.9DC.

a p 220 s stator is impossivle to fit in ......see

pic courtesy hunky....

3 phase in a 8 pole system,possible but amp outout will stay in region of 2~3 amps if you delta config,and if you use Y config its even less,no use at all,better dump that idea.

the single phase rr that you gave to syan that gave a voltage of 14.5 volts from 1.5 k rpm to peak with a 55/60 bulb with a relay,and you will be amazed to know with loads of 55+60w=115watt(low beam +flash) it maintained 13+volts from 3k rpm.
the problem was as i said you that time also the winding was a bit less which can be easily corrected by a rewindind and in sayans case its proven that i was right,.
fellow xbhpian lijok also sent me his coil of his rtr which i rewinded for him and now he is using the coil with ape rr no issues at all.
it seems the rtr s r better suited for dc convertion as they have 8 poles in the stator so the rpm variation of voltage is less the pulsar.
a stator of p220 will cost ~900inr approx.

i would suddest u go for a rewinding with a 19 awg wire(19.5)to be exact=200inr,and ape rr =800inr.

and i totally agree with sajjit.

Thanks for your help again, and the picture of 200 stator says no way in my RTR. Let me think, how i will recover the problem.
Secondly APE RR cost Rs.800.00 (WHERE?) It was rs.1200 when i buy it last time. Tell me how much 19 awg wire should I buy for my RTR magneto.

[Shreeni0403]

Oh!!! You meant Pulsar as bike & not Pulsar coil as such!!! I misundertood that point. Ok, I'm more than clear as you've confirmed all my understanding is right.

I'll get the coil rewinding done through a competitive guy, will find out & post here. I'll also buy RR unit of APE & fix them.

No I won't be opting for HID; also any insight on the headlamp assy? I guess when I use 60/55, I should be changing the headlamps & holder too right? Or the stock one is sufficient? Any suggestions?

Thanks @Sajjt for your elaborated replies.

I think you don't need APE RR if you are not opting for HID. You can just rewind the coil and get custom RR (donno where u can source in Chennai but in Bangalore Ruby does rewind and changes RR too). For a 55/60w you can use stock headlight unit + holder. AC/DC setup will cost you less as well when compared to converting to all DC.