Re: KTM 200 Duke


Thanks for the correction man..


Cheers,

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Take care bro! Glad you got out of it OK. I had a few situations where I almost lost control but somehow the bike stayed up. I thank the mass centralization for that.
I've noticed it doesn't need much throttle to start sliding in mid corners, so I never pushed it too much just because of that.

I think it's not just the tires but the absence of any weight at back on Duke that makes this much worse. Sticky tires like Metzelers would help, but I'm not sure D390 with its Metz will be completely safe from wheelspins in corners when you open the throttle. Duke's acceleration puts a strong pull on the rear wheel, and if a bike is on its side and a rider also leaned towards front, then there's hardly any weight left on the back, nothing is pushing the back wheel downwards.
That's why I think that even a very sticky tires would have wheel spins on Duke if throttle is opened fully in mid corner, but probably less.

Were the tires warm when this happened? I've noticed MRFs get much better when warmed up than when cold.
I was thinking of upgrading to Metz when I'm done with MRFs, but only if the price goes down. At 22-25k they are way too expensive.


Yes. I saw the speed figures for current 10,000 rpm with 43T sprocket showing top speed of 125 kmh, whereas the speedo shows 134 kmh, although that's slightly above 10k rpm.
I tested it my GPS showed 97 kmh when the speedo was showing 100 kmh, which is quite accurate, around 3%, and matches more or less with some other reviewers who tested Duke's speedo. Most other bikes have higher speedo error.
But, anyway, the accurate figures aren't that important, the point of the message is. And I fully agree with it.

What I meant to say about the Duke's redline and reliability is - for example, imagine if Yamaha set FZ's redline at 7k rpm. Now you KNOW that redline is at 9k rpm, and riding at 7k would be quite safe for longer times. But if you thought from the start that the actual redline is at 7k rpm you wouldn't ever try to ride it at 7k rpm for longer time.
What I'm saying is that, in my opinion and experience, KTM has set Duke's redline lower than what it actually is.
But in general, I FULLY agree that engine wears faster if being ridden at high rpms, and MUCH faster if being ridden for longer time at redline. The whole thing is to establish what the "real" redline is...
That's why I'd also like to get a taller sprocket (front or rear, doesn't matter, just as long as it fits, 1T extra at front would be perfect). And in combination with beefed up ECU I wouldn't lose the acceleration and would get the more relaxed high speeds. Win-win.

BTW, I got a confirmation from Abhishek from Kiirus that their ECU map is developed for 11,500 rpm. However, it can happen that on some bikes the rpms get cut off little higher. But, people should expect 11,500 rpm to be the rev limiter point with Kiirus ECU.
As for the 6th gear and the speed limit - he says it's the speedo chip in console that cuts the power, not the ECU. Older bikes didn't have that limit, whereas newer bikes have it. And apparently the cut off is different for different batches. The only way around it is to disconnect the front wheel cable that measures the speed, and then the speedo chip won't cut off the power based on speed, and one would be able to rev in 6th all the way to 11,500 rpm. However, that means losing the speed on a console, which I don't think anybody would want to lose.
That is what HE says. I personally don't know, but will check. However, he says the lowest top speed people have reported is 139 kmh, which is, in my opinion, enough. Some have reported their top speed to be 149 kmh.

Anyway, I'll do the tests when I remap the ECU. Not sure when I'll be able to test the top speed, not easy to get a good road without strong wind these days.

Hey, I really like that windshield! I find it much better looking than KTM's bigger one that will supposedly be available soon. And it looks bigger, much more useful...
Do you have a link for it? I would really like something like this when touring. Duke is an amazing bike, but from my experience the biggest limiting factor for touring is the wind blast, not the power or top speed.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

I had done around 3-4 km at varying speeds between 50 to 100. My impression was that the concept of "warming up" was mainly applicable to supersoft racing tyres and not road tyres. I haven't ever experienced regular road tyres getting hot, tbh. I've noticed them getting warmer than skin temperature, but never hot as such.

As for 390, it's understandable if it spins up the wheels, it has 75% more power at practically the same weight, but I think 200 Duke is far from being powerful enough to break traction on any sort of reasonable tyres.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

I have already mentioned about the same on top though i have a feeling this would be quite expensive! But worth it.

UPDATED POST:

I feel a manufacturer knows its product better than we or any tuning house do. They have spent tons of money on research and development and there has to be a reason why they have put a cap on the maximum rpms achievable for reliability and longevity purpose. Before you spend 8.5k on the ECU, why don't you try sourcing out a 15T front GB sprocket and see how much power, changes in gearing ratio etc. are you witnessing without the ECU mod as it would cost you maximum 100 bucks to procure one. Once, you understand the changes then opting for an ECU mod would make sense..

Cheers,

Re: KTM 200 Duke

I would prefer a bike to have insane acceleration but once it reaches a desired speed and when riding in a constant speed the bike should be able to cruise in a relaxed manner keeping the rpms low, with low engine noise, there by consuming less fuel and gifting the rider with a pleasant and soothing ride. Duke being a short geared bike it doesn't allow us to cruise on the highway in a relaxed manner. Is there any mod that we can try on our dukes like installing an automatic transmission just for the overdrive gear or rather a manual overdrive gear?

IMHO an automatic overdrive gear is the need of the hour more than ECU remap.

PS: Duke 200 with a windshield like this and with an overdrive gear would be a bliss for touring, what say guys?

Re: KTM 200 Duke

...Did someone said touring.!!
It calls for on/off road tyres too...did anyone installed it yet??....any off road mods around here.?? Im thinking for a 140/80 rear on/off road. Wondering if that will be too heavy or too much or 120/80 is potent enough.

Re: KTM 200 Duke


The rear tyre is 150 and not 140. You dont need separate tyres for touring, the stock tyres are good enough.

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Sometimes when the tyres are cold, and theres too much of torque to handle, you experience wheel spins. MRF tyres are good enough, incase you find some other tyre with stock specification do let us know. Metzellers will be an overkill and too expensive for D200.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

I just saw you updated your post with the details.
So, I'm fast, and I already exchanged few emails with JV Promoto guys.
This is MRA RNB sports windscreen for modern naked bikes and they sell it for Rs 8,000 including the mounting kit and shipping.

I'm going for it! Will order it on Monday.
When I get it I'll post my impressions and photos.

Some online reviews and opinions say it's a very good combination between a good wind protection and a good modern looks. It's very adjustable. Offered in clear and smoked/grey. I'll still see which one I'll get, waiting for another email from JV Promoto guys.

Here's some more details of MRA RNB screen and photos with various naked bikes:
MRA Racing Screen | Windshield for Naked Bikes | Motorcycles | Motorbikes

@shv18 - Thanks for the great find! :thumbup:


Yeah, but I think the decision of KTM to limit D200's top speed isn't because of reliability but more of a business decision, probably to give Duke 390 a greater advantage in top speed, or just a simple business reasoning that a low cc bike "should not" go over 135 kmh... Imagine if D200 has top speed of 150 kmh. That wouldn't bode well for D390's sales considering its top of 165 kmh.
I fully agree with all the reliability factors you are mentioning. Knowing how easy D200 revs at 10,000 rpm I think in this case the reason behind D200's speed limit was NOT the reliability factor but pure business and sales calculation - to put a low cc product into a low performing category, and mid cc into a mid performing category.

About the ECU - it gives the raw power increase BEFORE it reaches sprockets and chain. So, it would have benefits regardless of ANY combination of sprockets. I like more power and higher rev limit, so I'd go for this even if I would be able to get 150 kmh top speed with just a sprocket change.
Yes, it's Rs 8500, but I think it's a very good deal considering the power boost it gives. FAR better deal than any other performance part.

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BTW guys, does anyone know where's a good place in Bangalore to go if I want to try the sprocket change? And also a headlights work to put a projector?
I think T41/T40 at rear or T15 at front would be the best options.

I know I can get T42 from KTM, but they sell only full set - front and rear sprockets with chain. And 42T wouldn't make much difference... (All newer Dukes have 42T anyway, I have an older one with 43T.)

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Well glad to be of some help. i have also updated the post on the Duke 390 long term test thread so that people looking out for some after market parts are greatly benefitted (You have been credited for finding out about the pricing and etc.). Afterall, sharing information and learning from each other is what makes us grow into better riders i hope.

MRA has put up a simple installation video as well for installing the windshield:



Regarding the sprocket scenario, the idea is since, you are anyways planning on going for the KIIRIUS remap, it wouldn't hurt your wallet at all to see if changing just the front sprocket to 15T or else 40T rear sprocket from Hero Honda/Hero Karizma (Info courtesy PSR Ji), you get better power without lugging the engine too much. If stock tuned engine/ECU can pull the bike without giving you any hiccups then you are saving 8.5k on the remap and also on the warranty. Regardless it would be a good experiment to see what changes your bike witnesses just by changing the sprocket and the same can be shared on the thread. Experiment cost: 50 - 100 bucks for front sprocket mod and 300 bucks for the rear sprocket mod with installation included

15T: Bajaj 150/180, Honda unicorn, Yamaha RX 135.
40T: Hero honda/ Hero Karizma, should be easily available at any Hero spares shop.
38T: Pulsar 200 (old model i remember). Easily available at any Bajaj Spares shop in the city.

Sandhya Spares at JC Road, Blore will be a good place to start looking out for these parts if the official spares shop give you any trouble.

Hope this info helps.

Cheers,

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Are bhai...who said rear is 140. I know stock is 150. Im saying i wanto install a new tyre which will be 140/80. And touring also comes with adventure and off roads and lots of sorts of terrains. So i need on/off road ones. Im not experienced enough to ride on mud and slush on slick stock tyres. so ..

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Thanks!
I'll be quite tight with time in next few days so not sure about sprockets, but in some 10 days I'll have time for it.

Duke has plenty of power for taller sprockets, won't ever lug. The only "problem" with sprockets is that no one wants to lose that manic acceleration.

Some guy from Malaysia had put crazy tall 33T rear sprocket and he liked it, much more relaxed ride at higher speeds, but has said it could be little problematic when going steep uphill with pillion. He said 35T or 37T would be perfect.

However, I still (like most) want to keep the strong acceleration, so don't want to make a big change with sprockets.

15T front sprocket would put the top speed at 143 kmh, and 40T rear sprocket would top at 144 kmh.
Right now my top with 43T rear sprocket is 134 kmh, whereas the newer Dukes with 42T should top at 137 kmh.

With Kiirus ECU (IF it reaches 11,500 rpm in 6th gear) the top speeds would be 152 kmh with 43T, 156 kmh with 42T and 164 kmh with 40T rear sprocket.
Total overkill, if you ask me...

But, actually, with that MRA windscreen fitted - maybe not.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Hello friends

15T from bajaj 150/180 or unicorn or yamaha will not fit in KTM Duke.
38T is overgearing. I had tried it already.
39T currently using it for past 2 weeks.
40T will be the ideal one.

My opinion is 15T front if available is the best choice.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Hi karticraja,

Thanks for info!
It would be good to hear from you some impressions about difference in ride between the stock and 39T sprocket...

What made you put taller sprockets?
Do you find city traffic easier with the original or with 39T sprocket?

And how about highway - have you had some faster highways rides with 39T sprocket? How is it?
I suppose that's where the taller sprocket definitely feels better...

So it looks like it's not easy to find a front 15T sprocket?
I guess the rear 40T shouldn't be a problem, just get it from a Hero service center...

Re: KTM 200 Duke

The duke I ride is from the first lot and runs the same mapping it came with: can rev upto 10.5k rpm in all gears. Recently got the sprocket kit or chain set replaced to the new 42t rear ones. My top speed now is 142kmph at which point I hit the limiter. Earlier it was 138kmph.

Edit: the change in acceleration is not at all noticeable, at least to me and the bike doesn't struggle a single bit to reach its top end. Its all like it was before the sprocket change, just that it has better top end now.

Sent from my GT-I9100

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Here goes my experience.

My duke is 1 year and 10000km old and has 43T rear as stock. I am basically not a very hard accelerator but enjoy higher speeds. The acceleration was crazy and more that what I wanted with stock and i used to maxout at 138 / 139 with stock almost everyday with more road for higher speeds. Felt there is more power unsued.

Hence did some info collection and changed to 38T rear first some times back. But was not happy since the bike lost its charm and drivability. Top (m)axed our at 137 / 138. No mileage improvements since I had to accelerate hard to keep the pace. Changed it back to stock after about 500km. Wont recommend this to anyone.

Recently decided to test the next change since the engine cut off at top gear sometimes drives me crazy. Never wanted to change to 42T since there is no big difference. There was a dilema between 40T and 39T. Since 39T is available in Bajaj itself (latest P180) decided to change and finally very very happy.

For sure acceleration is lower, engine is softer due to longer ratio. But for me the acceleration is good enough. Ridebaility is still good in city. Bike still pulls strongly from 40kmph in top gear. The most important is that the top speed has increased now. A lot.

Max speeds I had tested in each gear is as under. I am also indicating the previous figures with stock 43T in brackets
1st - 48 (44)
2nd - 68 (61)
3rd - 89 (81)
4th - 113 (102)
5th - 133 (121)
6th - 150 (139)

Top speed in 6th was without hitting the rev limited. But not to expect any more since it powered out. Anyway rev limiter should cut at 153 as per my calculations.

It kept ticking till 144 / 145 and had done this 3 times already. But after that it took more time and road to get to 150. just did it once.

And many wont believe this. My mileage in city was ranging from 33 to 36kmpl with 43T. Now its ranging from 36 to 40kmpl.

I have decided to ride with 39T rear as long as I own Duke.

I recommend this for those who want better top speed and mileage and can sacrifice on the charm of hard acceleration.

40T rear from karizma will be better since it will have better acceleration than this. but i doubt to see 150 mark.