Re: My KTM Duke 200 (White) review-cum-experience

Hey Guys !

I am planning a solo week-long ride on my 1090km young Duke200.

Pune-B'lore-Mysore-Pondi-Chennai-Hyderabad-Pune.

I wish to explore more around and would like suggestions from people who already have done this part.

I also heard about a ghat near blore/chennai which has 36 hairpin turns in 5kms(I cant remember the name)

Would like to know more about the pre-ride preparation(bike serviced today and chain lubed)

All suggestions and experiences are welcome...

Re: My KTM Duke 200 (White) review-cum-experience

Chennai-Bangalore road is pretty much flat. I think the road you are referring to, is Kolli Hills to Namakkal. 20-ish kilometers and 70 hairpins. I haven't been there but I've been told that the road condition is pretty bad there so the road isn't as much fun as it may sound.

Also, Bangalore-Mysore-Chennai route will be more like Bangalore-Mysore-Bangalore-Chennai, so you may want to reconsider, if you want to directly hit Mysore.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Good Decision Bro. Even I am also planning for the Same(Why trade your Baby, when you can make it more powerful). Any ways, the KIIRUS is very confident that, the svc ppl can't identify the ECU remap while they do a normal service. Waiting for your Updates on the remap. By the way, they are conducting some workshop at some hotel(didn't get any update), the price for KTM remap is 9000/- final.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Bangalore - Pondicherry road is REALLY bad. Blore to Krishnagiri is 70 km highway (with some works going on), but from Krishnagiri to Pondicherry is real bad.
Blore to Chennai highway is OK, and then you can head south to Pondy.

I talked to Abhishek from Kiirus, and he said he or his guys will be coming to Bangalore next week, probably around middle of the week.

So, I'll remap my ECU in Bangalore next week, it's easier for me if I come there (wherever the meeting place will be) and they do it all there directly. I read on Kiirus FB page the remap is now Rs 8.5k, but who knows, maybe it's 9k.
If anyone from Blore is seriously interested in Kiirus ECU remap but not completely sure they can come to that place and I can give them a small test ride on my bike after the remap, just to see the difference, and they can decide right there if they want to do it as well on their bike.

I'll call Kiirus again on Monday to check up on exact date, time and place in Bangalore next week, and will post the details here as soon as I know.

ECU is the same, just different software map. So, no way to see if it has been changed. The only way to see is to rev it beyond 10.5k rpm. Or to notice increased power when taking a test ride...
But, as I said, I personally don't care about engine warranty, how often does it happen that an engine gets seized? Highly unlikely... And if some parts inside the engine need replacement, it doesn't cost that much. I do care though about warranty of some other parts on bike that are more prone to failure...

Re: KTM 200 Duke

@splus : I am not yet ready for the remap, But I would love to join you there to see the Work and Result(Probably on your bike ). I am also waiting to get the Confirm date for the Workshop.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Has anyone put or seen a projector in a Duke? If you know anything it would be much appreciated!

I need a better light for night riding than stock light. I find the low beam has a lousy spread, goes more to sides, and has very short and weak spread in middle.
The high beam is much better, gives more light and goes further in the center, but I don't like to blind an oncoming traffic.
I basically need a good light that will spread have a good and strong spread mostly in center, suitable for highway rides, so it goes little further away.
I don't want to use HID.

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Cool! Send me a PM and we'll exchange phone numbers, so we can catch up there...

Same for anyone else in Blore interested in checking out Kiirus ECU next week - just send me a PM.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Chinmayakar went for Kiirus ? How has been the experience? People might remember that I was among the very first guys who got to try the Kiirus mapped duke. It was Abhishek's bike and I noticed how much more eager it was to pounce. It clutch wheelied quite effortlessly and the engine felt less harsh.Nit that the stock bike vibrates but you do sense this little harshness, especially in higher revs. That bike, however has now been sold to someone else after it had to undergo a chassis change(may be decided it was dangerous riding that bike!! )
Regarding sprockets, I would recommend sticking with 42T. I think that's the only one available now at the svcs anyway. The newer lots don't come with the 43 T anymore. Besides since most of us have had,rather unfortunately, our ecu's remapped(by KTM of course) for the stalling issue, a 43T means around 132-133 kmph top end. Rather underwhelming I'd say,though top speeds are mostly relevant during 'bike' discussions as I would have a tough time identifying a road in Mumbai where you can do even 80 safely and comfortably, such is the status of our potholed roads.

Warranty is 'voided' my friend

Good for you splus. Do post your reviews. Regarding the possibilty of KTM able to identify the remap in case of a seizure even after you switch to the old ecu map, I'd say two things:
First of all, definitely there is a higher chance of a seizure with the heightened limiter surely. I am not saying it's high, just that it's higher than the stock bike. Besides we did have some seizure cases with even this supposedly modern engine in the beginning. Haven't heard about such cases of late but that may be partly due to the fact that I don't head out to the svc that often these days. Hence less banter with guys there and less updates
The reason KTM lowered the limiter was seizures in Europe, where the roads permit holding 130+ speeds easily. To lessen the collateral top speed damage, they gave a smaller sprocket(42T).
Secondly, I am sure if KTM want they can find out the reason for the seizure somehow. But the question is how friendly the dealor would be in such cases. In this regard I'd say one need not be worried. I would pm you the reason . Can't disclose it here.

PS : would be so kind not to post 'ways to hoodwink KTM/Bajaj about avoiding warranty voiding'. They read this page and we need to be a little discreet don't you think, lest they find a way to identify the liers ??

Re: KTM 200 Duke


Good post my friend.. Just to keep this thread going, i used the native 11,700 rpm set by KIIRIUS and did some basic calculations with changing sprockets on Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator And here are the results:



Pic 1: With 14T GB Sprocket Front and 41 T GB Sprocket Rear.



Pic 2: The top speed achievable @ 6th gear (If KIIRIUS allows 11,700 rpm on it).




Pic 3: The top speed achievable @ 6th gear on 14 40 combo (If KIIRIUS allows 11,700 rpm on it).



Pic 4: A graph representing various top speeds achievable with front and rear sprocket swaps.

Now as far as i am aware of @6th Gear even with the KIIRIUS remap the stock ECU doesnot allow the bike to go beyond 10,500 rpm though i would request the guys who have gone with the retune please clarify this.

The main challenge for KIIRIUS and RD is how to make the fuel map complementary with the sprocket mod in order to try and keep the acceleration as brute as possible without compromising of FE and load the engine too much due to changes with the sprocketing.


Hope this helps

Cheers,

Re: KTM 200 Duke


Yes, I remember your post, and also how you met with an accident on the Palm Beach Road after the remap. I did not get to ride much since last Saturday, as it hasn't stopped raining, and I am recovering from my leg pain.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Haha. Well, if there's an engine seizure then I'll swallow my part of responsibility and bear the consequences (cost). So, KTM, if you read this - there you go.
Regarding seizure - if I remember well there was some incident in Kerala (or not sure) a year ago or more, but if I remember well there was very little oil in the engine. They didn't say what the reason was for no oil...
And about engine seizures overseas - can you please post some links, I'd like to read about it?

I rode my Duke at 130-134 kmh for almost an hour last December (600 km ride from Blore to Goa, took me 12 hours), and engine was working like a butter. Smoother at 10k rpm than at 7-8k rpm. At any time it didn't feel stressed or close to its limit. Thanks to LC, at those speeds there was no overheating either.
So, I'm not really sure there would be problems with engine at higher rpms for longer times. Duke's engine is so rev happy, it really feels as if the rev limiter has been artificially set at much lower limit than what engine can bear.
And hey - PEAK power is at 10k rpm! What wisdom is to set a rev limiter at peak power point?? Usually the rpms are limited at 1.5-2k rpm higher than peak power. Duke 390 has its peak power at 9k rpm, 1k less than D200, but has a rev limiter set at same rpm.
The way I see it - injustice has been done to our Duke 200 and I am going to correct it!

Of course, at those speeds and at 10k rpm you wish to have Duke 390, have a reserve of power and ride at more relaxed rpms, but that's where all this rear sprocket story kicks in! Have a little more relaxed ride at high speeds with taller sprocket... BUT, anything less than 40-41T would make Duke much more tame, that's not an option.
With Kiirus ECU map we get little more power to play - a Duke with Kiirus ECU and 1-2T taller sprocket at the back would have the same pick up as Duke with stock ECU, but higher top speed.


Nice little program!
I just checked it, and entered stock Duke configuration, but the problem is that speeds are not accurate! At least about Duke 200... Something I also see from your screenshots.

The REAL figures are that with 43T sprocket Duke cuts off at 139 kmh at 10,500 rpm. That program shows speed of 131 kmh at 10,500 rpm for 43T sprocket.
Little bit of mathematics (11,700 / 10,500 * 139) and the cut off at 11,700 rpm would be at 154-155 kmh. 42T sprocket (which is what all newer Dukes have) would top at 158 kmh.

However, when I talked to Abhishek from Kiirus he was mentioning "11,500 - 11,700" figures. Now, it looks like things are not really exact, or maybe the top revs differ at different gears. But they have a video on their website of Duke 200 running Kiirus ECU on a dyno and topping at 149 kmh. That's an old Duke at 43T.
New Dukes have 42T, and new set of sprockets with chain can be bought at service centers.
I'd first try to find if there is 41T sprocket if possible and put that. Maybe even 40T could be an option...
So, again, little bit of mathematics (43T / 40T * 154 kmh) gives top theoretical speed of 165 kmh at 11,700 rpm with 40T sprocket. How's that? Not bad...

Now, back to reality - I'm yet to ride a road where I can ride 165 kmh safely. OK, I've seen roads that can handle those speeds, but not without crazy trucks spread out at all 3 lanes, changing lanes at random will...
So... 41T or 42T would do best. 42T sprocket would top at 158 kmh at 11,700 rpm, or 142 kmh at 10,500 rpm.

Some more details - Abhishek from Kiirus mentioned something about the top speed being limited regardless of ECU. He says it's not about rpms but about the top speed, and that from the feedback he got from different Dukes with his ECU some were able to achieve only max of 139 kmh, some 149 kmh, some 145 kmh. He says these figures vary on different bikes. Disconnecting the cord that gives the rotations of front wheel to console would remove that limit, but then the console wouldn't show the speed at all.
I am not really sure what to make out of this, sounds really unlikely that different bikes would have such a limit. I'm more inclined to believe those riders simply weren't able to achieve higher top speeds. That would explain that those "top speed limits" are different on different bikes. It probably matters how a bike was broken in during the run in period. Mine was redlined straight away and finished with run in in 200 km, and easily hits the rev limiter at 134 kmh at slightly more than 10k rpm (new KTM ECU map).


OK, another point - I watched that 165 kmh Duke video from Malaysia I posted, this time carefully, and I have to make a correction!
The guy says it's a stock sprocket but removed rev limiter. Well, that's not the case.

If you look at the tacho, he is never going more than 10,500 rpms. I think he even hits the rev limiter few times. However, the speeds he is doing are very high.
So it looks like he only has a different sprocket. The combination of rpms and speed he is going would put the sprocket size at around 37T. So, it looks like he has a stock ECU (or maybe a beefed up ECU like Kiirus that gives more power to be able to pull such a tall sprocket) but definitely has a tall sprocket, 37T matches his speed and revs.

In fact, if memory serves me well, someone from Malaysia has posted in this or team-bhp Duke 200 thread a year ago or so, saying he has put 37T on his Duke!! Could be the same guy...

Anyway, I'll do some tests soon, and we'll know. I have 43T sprocket, but I will look if it is possible to find 40 or 41T. If not then I'll go for 42T. I'll be doing some longer trips in a few months, and more relaxed engine with higher speeds would be handy.


UPDATE: I just got an email from Kiirus, saying they will be in Bangalore on Monday and Tuesday, tuning mostly cars and Dukes. Here's a post from their FB page:

BANGALORE WORKSHOP TUNING DATES : Mon -Tue 5/6.
Location : HOTEL PRATIK Comfort Inn. 168, 36th 'A' cross, 18th Main, 4th T Block, Jayanagar. & GEAR-Up, Car accessories etc across the same block.


Contact Person :
KISHOR BHANUSHALI : 09892141430
DHARMESH : 08898756363
(hindi preferred, English speakers...take it easy


Schedule for Tune : We reach and start work from 3 pm on-wards on Monday and work until and through the night to accommodate all while we are there. So just call or walkin' as per your schedule, Mon-Tue.

Price for KTM Duke 200 : 8500/-

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OK, here's dyno video of Duke 200 with Kiirus ECU maxing it in every gear.

3rd - 88 kmh
4th - 109 kmh
5th - 130 kmh
6th - 149 kmh

That is older Duke with 43T rear sprocket.

Newer Dukes with 42T should max at following speeds:

3rd - 90 kmh
4th - 111 kmh
5th - 133 kmh
6th - 152 kmh


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ElFuuWG1RU

Re: KTM 200 Duke

splus: Nice observation and calculations there. The speeds at the gearing commander site are apparently actual speeds and not speedo indicated.
I dont remember where I read the 'European seizure' angle, but will try to dig it up.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

[MENTION=18379]splus[/MENTION] : Good Info Bro. The workshop will be conducted on Weekdays . I doubt, whether I can make it to the venue or not. Well, you will be posting the review any ways. I will try max to be there(if so, I will send you my Phone no.).

Re: KTM 200 Duke

So, I've officially had it with the MRF tyres. I was riding "enthusiastically" late last night, went into a right hander on medium-high lean at around 40 kph, 2nd gear. Nailed the trottle mid corner just as I was starting to pull the bike upright and had a MASSIVE wheelspin. Managed to somehow balance it with some front brake and steering input and miraculously (literally have no idea how I saved it) avoided a fall. I stopped by the roadside and walked back to examine the surface. There was no dust/dirt/water/oil on the road either.

Edit : around 4000km old tires with plenty of tread left, so it's not because of degradation either.

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Nice observations but the thing is gearing commander is giving you actual achievable speeds whereas in real life the speedo readings are dependant on a lot of factors like direction of wind, front tire wear which will severely hamper the reading of true speed vs. indicated speed. The rpm displayed on your bike is also not accurate as manufacturers are allowed to show a maximum reading error of 5 - 10 %. I will disagree on one thing though.. You continue riding your bike on the redline or close red line throughout and it is bound to eat up consumable parts easily and sooner than indicated life.. The idea behind having a good bike with lesser ownership costs is to modulate the throttle regardless of whether it is Liquid Cooled or Air Cooled.. that way you are pacing the engine and not pushing it too much. Agreed LC engines have far better heat dissipation than Air Cooled engines but that doesnot mean one can just keep it on the redline all the time. You cannot beat the rules of thermodynamics mate.

If you can't source out the rear sprocket going for the front sprocket mod will also yield you the same results. If you see the graph and the details mentioned with either of the sprocket mods the results will be more or less similar. I still have my doubts whether the KIIRIUS tune allows you to go beyond 10,500 rpm on 6th gear. Hence, would request all the riders who have gone for the ECU remap... with proper safety gears on and on an empty stretch try it out in the name of science and see if on 6th gear you can go beyond 10,500 rpm and put my doubts to rest. Please be safe guys, i don't want anyone to get hurt just to clear out my doubts..


Probably going for a windshield like this will increase the top end and also protect the rider from windblast beyond 100 kmph:



Pic 1: KTM DUke 200 with a custom windshield.

Agreed though to some it may look tard ugly.. but some times form and functionality become more important than looks especially for highway runs..

MRA Windhields http://www.mra.de/unternehmen/ueber-uns manufactures one shown as above and the official importers in india are

JV Pro Moto:
Address:
Goregaon - West, Mumbai, Maharashtra, India 400062
Phone: +91 - 9619866133
+91 - 9619866144
+91 - 9619703590
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.jvpromoto.com

Please do share mate.. i will also learn something new from this


Cheers,

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Just a small correction Shv18, the figures given out by the Gearing Commander are not actual achievable speeds but the maximum theoretical speeds achievable. As you have mentioned a lot of factors come into play and there is a big difference in the theoretical speeds and true speeds achieved. One of the biggest factor is transmission losses. The other factors such as wind resistance, rolling resistance, barometric pressure, wet weight, weight of the rider, etc, also play very significant role in the difference between theoretical speeds and true speeds.