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**DukeDey** · 08-15-2013, 01:18 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by abhayshanu View Post

Correct. Also any conical air filter will have oil SEEN on it, stock replacement just don't let us see them. There is alot more pressure and because of that the oil is sucked up to the air filter where as the stock replacement one doesn't have that kind of suction so the oil doesn't reach the Air Filter.

The suction even if more should be for air, right? How would oil travel towards the filter because of extra suction?
I don't understand, engine oil and filter? How are they related.

Sent from my GT-I9100

**abhayshanu** · 08-15-2013, 01:44 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

The suction even if more should be for air, right? How would oil travel towards the filter because of extra suction?
I don't understand, engine oil and filter? How are they related.

Sent from my GT-I9100

I really don't know how to explain. Well I'll try. Because there is more air going in at a much higher rate, there is more suction and air pressure. So when you leave the accelerator the vacuum/air flow/suction is reversed and a little oil comes in due to it. WHY does the oil come is something which I really don't know much, but it does, well it did for my Pulsar.

**DukeDey** · 08-15-2013, 02:01 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by abhayshanu View Post

I really don't know how to explain. Well I'll try. Because there is more air going in at a much higher rate, there is more suction and air pressure. So when you leave the accelerator the vacuum/air flow/suction is reversed and a little oil comes in due to it. WHY does the oil come is something which I really don't know much, but it does, well it did for my Pulsar.

The oil would only come up if your piston rings have gone bad otherwise where is the path for the oil to reach the airbox?

Sent from my GT-I9100

**abhayshanu** · 08-15-2013, 02:44 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

The oil would only come up if your piston rings have gone bad otherwise where is the path for the oil to reach the airbox?

Sent from my GT-I9100

No no, AFAIK there is a oil outlet for spitting excess/waste oil. Well as I said it was for my pulsar. There was a proper opening in the crank which had a pipe which was connected to the air box. Since I removed the air box, the pipe is was just open and one day it just shot out at deceleration.

**psr** · 08-15-2013, 09:58 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by abhayshanu View Post

I really don't know how to explain. Well I'll try. Because there is more air going in at a much higher rate, there is more suction and air pressure. So when you leave the accelerator the vacuum/air flow/suction is reversed and a little oil comes in due to it. WHY does the oil come is something which I really don't know much, but it does, well it did for my Pulsar.

All Four stroke engines have Crank case breather, which is invariably routed to the clean air side of the Air Filter...This is to scavenge the pressure in the crank case...In cars there will be a PCV Valve(Positive Crankcase Ventilation) which will regulate this breathing and recycling of the crankcase fumes from blowby...In lower cc bikes the crank breather is connected to the airbox by a rubber tube without PCV .....hence some amount of oil will be seen in the airbox, depending on the condition of engine and routing...

Originally posted by DukeDey View Post

The oil would only come up if your piston rings have gone bad otherwise where is the path for the oil to reach the airbox?

Sent from my GT-I9100

Yes you are right...only if the rings are leaking more than normal will we see excess oil in an airbox....still Engine oil Will be Seen inside any 4 stroke airbox since Positive crank Case Ventilation for the engine is through the clean air side of air filter...the quantum will be based upon the health of the engine, and the PCV system in place...this is assuming that everything else is stock

**abhayshanu** · 08-15-2013, 11:38 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by psr View Post

All Four stroke engines have Crank case breather, which is invariably routed to the clean air side of the Air Filter...This is to scavenge the pressure in the crank case...In cars there will be a PCV Valve(Positive Crankcase Ventilation) which will regulate this breathing and recycling of the crankcase fumes from blowby...In lower cc bikes the crank breather is connected to the airbox by a rubber tube without PCV .....hence some amount of oil will be seen in the airbox, depending on the condition of engine and routing...

Yes you are right...only if the rings are leaking more than normal will we see excess oil in an airbox....still Engine oil Will be Seen inside any 4 stroke airbox since Positive crank Case Ventilation for the engine is through the clean air side of air filter...the quantum will be based upon the health of the engine, and the PCV system in place...this is assuming that everything else is stock

Thank you for explaining, I always wanted to know but no one could explain. All the mechs I asked just said the same thing, that it was needed but no one could tell me how and why.

**psr** · 08-15-2013, 12:08 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Here is a Diagrammatic representation to clear doubts if any.....since single cylinders of low cc do not have much blowby, the PCV valve is avoided and crankcase is ventilated without it...

**splus** · 08-15-2013, 12:48 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by psr View Post

All Four stroke engines have Crank case breather, which is invariably routed to the clean air side of the Air Filter...This is to scavenge the pressure in the crank case...In cars there will be a PCV Valve(Positive Crankcase Ventilation) which will regulate this breathing and recycling of the crankcase fumes from blowby...In lower cc bikes the crank breather is connected to the airbox by a rubber tube without PCV .....hence some amount of oil will be seen in the airbox, depending on the condition of engine and routing...

Yes you are right...only if the rings are leaking more than normal will we see excess oil in an airbox....still Engine oil Will be Seen inside any 4 stroke airbox since Positive crank Case Ventilation for the engine is through the clean air side of air filter...the quantum will be based upon the health of the engine, and the PCV system in place...this is assuming that everything else is stock

Ok, but how "bad" is it if some oil gets out into the filter?
Is little bit "ok", but if it's more then not?

And considering Duke's very strong engine braking, would this tend to happen more?

**splus** · 08-15-2013, 12:52 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by abhayshanu View Post

No no, AFAIK there is a oil outlet for spitting excess/waste oil. Well as I said it was for my pulsar. There was a proper opening in the crank which had a pipe which was connected to the air box. Since I removed the air box, the pipe is was just open and one day it just shot out at deceleration.

"One day it just shot out"?
What do you mean? Little bit or a lot?
Then what to do in this case?
I mean, basically - how bad is it if this happens?

**abhayshanu** · 08-15-2013, 12:58 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by splus View Post

"One day it just shot out"?
What do you mean? Little bit or a lot?
Then what to do in this case?
I mean, basically - how bad is it if this happens?

That was with my pulsar. The pipe just shot out. I was riding at around 120 in 5th and left the accelerator and there was a bigger than normal misfire with some oil on my right ankle. Ignored it and when reached home I saw that the rubber pipe was shot out. I don't really think that this would be a problem with stock bikes and stock air filter boxes. So you really dont need to worry. Once you go crazy modding then you would need to worry, but you wont.

**petrolhead_chn** · 08-15-2013, 01:00 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by abhayshanu View Post

Thank you for explaining, I always wanted to know but no one could explain. All the mechs I asked just said the same thing, that it was needed but no one could tell me how and why.

A classic example of typical practical experience ruling over theoretical knowledge, especially with local mechanics. No mechanic cares to explain or even think WHY?
Thanks to [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] for the illustration.

P.S. I had a similar experience on my car where the PCV valve was clogged with oil. Changing the valve restored the sweet idling back again. Whereas in bikes, the worst could be an air filter box full of oil I guess

plus drop in oil level needing a top up.

**splus** · 08-15-2013, 01:19 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by abhayshanu View Post

That was with my pulsar. The pipe just shot out. I was riding at around 120 in 5th and left the accelerator and there was a bigger than normal misfire with some oil on my right ankle. Ignored it and when reached home I saw that the rubber pipe was shot out. I don't really think that this would be a problem with stock bikes and stock air filter boxes. So you really dont need to worry. Once you go crazy modding then you would need to worry, but you wont.

OK, but could it happen with conical air filters?
Or even with stock replacement filters, such as BMC?

As I said, after Kiirus ECU remap I have a feeling the engine could benefit from some more air, especially in higher revs, so I'm thinking of getting another air filter.

I guess you guys will test the Pipercross in a few days, so we'll know more, if it's worth it or not...

**abhayshanu** · 08-15-2013, 01:25 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by petrolhead_chn View Post

A classic example of typical practical experience ruling over theoretical knowledge, especially with local mechanics. No mechanic cares to explain or even think WHY?
Thanks to @psr for the illustration.

P.S. I had a similar experience on my car where the PCV valve was clogged with oil. Changing the valve restored the sweet idling back again. Whereas in bikes, the worst could be an air filter box full of oil I guess

plus drop in oil level needing a top up.

Unfortunately I would say that they dont KNOW why and dont have the ways to know why and how. Most mechs are guys who got into garages and started working there as teenagers. So they just learnt from their elders who themselves started the same way. So I would say more than 90% of mechs dont have theoretical knowledge in India.

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Originally posted by splus View Post

OK, but could it happen with conical air filters?
Or even with stock replacement filters, such as BMC?

As I said, after Kiirus ECU remap I have a feeling the engine could benefit from some more air, especially in higher revs, so I'm thinking of getting another air filter.

I guess you guys will test the Pipercross in a few days, so we'll know more, if it's worth it or not...

Conical yes, but as I said with crazy mods you need to worry, your bike is still stock(yes I know you have a remap). So dont really worry. But if you want safe good performance get a Stock Replacement air fitlers. Also before buying any air filter, run your bike without the air filter cap. Keep the Air Filter on, but just remove the cap and see if you see ANY performance gain, if not then it should be enough for you to understand that stock replacement air filters were and are designed for longer air filter life and marginal better air flow, thus marginal extra power.

**splus** · 08-15-2013, 01:49 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by chinmayakar View Post

Bingo!! Thats what I did first after getting off the phone. When Pipercross does not make it, where is this guy sourcing it from? Also, I am very sceptical when someone makes a claim too good to be true.

Anything that sounds too good to be true, I try to stay away from it. Lets see how genuine his claims are. Abhay Bro, I need you on Sunday, lets check this out.

I also checked with Joel yesterday. He has headwork and lots of other mods ready for the Duke 200. Also, he will be making FFE for Duke next month.

I trust him over others any day. Serge, can you please get in touch with Joel, he is in Bangalore, and check out what all he can do.

Very IMP: Any mods he recommends, get it done from him, in case you decide to get it done. He executes it very well, and dont tamper that setting from outside.

I would say lets hold on to our horses now, and lets not spend on upgrades now. Lets explore as of now.
I will be riding down to Bangalore may be this year end or start of next year only to get the mods done by Joel.

As of now I will hang on to the remap.

Thanks.
Can you PM me Joel's contact details and address?

I'll give him a call and visit him next week to see what his plans are in regard to Duke, but yes, I'll also for now just enjoy the ECU remap but I want to do something to give the engine more air.
Will try 40T sprocket as well. And put Philips bulb for stronger headlight.

Btw, I'm going to Blore only on Saturday, it's rainy, so top speed limiter check and MRA RNB windscreen impressions will have to wait 2 more days...

Originally posted by Syed Zakir Ahamed View Post

Dukers,
I am following this thread closely, and it's been a very long time, that I posted my last one.
@splus : Good to see some positive feedback after the ECU remap(My bad, I wasn't there at that time), Sprocket change & Air filter stuff.
I don't want to be a KABAB MEIN HADDI in this interesting topic, but I do have a query.
Do the Wheel Spin/Wobbling during the Panic Braking will effect the Rim/Fork of the Bike, as these days I am not getting that level of confidence while cornering.

Is the Compression check can be done as a general check?
How to check the status of the Clutch plates(Coz recently had Almost 300km ride with continues 120+)?

Appreciate your suggestions, as next week I have scheduled my 2nd Free Service.

I don't think wheel spin can cause any problems for rims or forks. No worries.
Warmer tires are better than colder, and dry road is better than wet.
I've heard few guys are able to do even 10 kmh faster corners on Duke than on R15 so everything should be OK unless you open the throttle too much when coming out of corner, which can cause the rear wheel to spin. Strong pick up and low rear weight, together with front seat being more forward than on most other bikes contributes to this more than the tires, IMO.

I don't think clutch plates should be affected by long high speed ride. No worries.

Depends more how you ride in traffic. Opening throttle strongly, and esp with half pressed clutch will affect the clutch plates the most.

**wallpapers123** · 08-15-2013, 02:06 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Guys a noob question again..
saw a youtube video yday of a kiirus ECU remapped duke 200..the guy was just revving with ease at standstill..and the RPM would shoot up to 10,000 RPM..
tried the same with my stock duke..it would just go till 7,000 ish RPM..is it normal..??
Trying a bit engine braking the last couple of days from 100 ish to 60 ish in 5th gear and the bike is feeling a bit smoother overall..
Is the above effect due to engine braking..??

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