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  • The spark plugs in any Petrol driven ICE ,is identified by their Numbers.This number is unique to the specification of the plug.This includes details like the type of thread,length of thread,heat range,type of center electrode ,material of center electrode.,etc.,
    Spark-plugs technical information

    If you hadn't disturbed the ignition timing,then it is the High Compression and poor AFR leading to your present predicament.
    Last edited by psr; 10-19-2010, 10:26 AM.
    When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

    Comment


    • so the only thing needs to be done is...
      make the AFR Rich..

      and bore the head !!!

      of course make the timing retarted too.

      anything else ??
      Giving a lot to a fiero.
      Expecting a lot from a fiero.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NANOtechnology View Post
        so the only thing needs to be done is...
        make the AFR Rich..

        and bore the head !!!

        of course make the timing retarted too.

        anything else ??
        Yeah your bike is running super lean ,particularly if you consider the head is not altered.Once the head is matched with the bore you will loose some power.

        Yeah you can richen the a/f and ride the bike.But only if the plug turns black after the tuning.If it doesn't then it will be risky.

        The carb is tuned with a co2 machine and that they say is the best way to tune a carb.Otherwise when it's done by us ,it'll never be correct.Unless you know what you are doing.

        What happened to the used rtr180 head ? In my opinion ,you won't need a new head.Run this head till it's ok,the same money can be put on some other thing.If i remember correctly you had changed the cam and the timing chain.So wait till the cam is worn out,then you can go for a new head.
        Life begins, once you hit the power band !!

        Comment


        • @Nanotech

          When the engine's opened up,make sure they check the crankshaft's health and the connecting rod.
          Life begins, once you hit the power band !!

          Comment


          • Here's something for the carb tuners to keep in their mind.This is the pic of a piston which has melted after being exposed to serious heat because of a lean mixture and after the rattling sound heard.Obviously the engine did die a agonizing and painful death.
            Last edited by gixxer_junkie_m; 10-19-2010, 02:54 PM.
            Life begins, once you hit the power band !!

            Comment


            • omg...

              gixxer, tell me from where can i get the carb tuned the machine way ??

              besides, i can make the same mech work on my TIMING ...

              where can it be done, should i go to the ASS, won't they deny as my steed is modded and running with a p180 carb ??
              Giving a lot to a fiero.
              Expecting a lot from a fiero.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NANOtechnology View Post
                omg...

                gixxer, tell me from where can i get the carb tuned the machine way ??

                besides, i can make the same mech work on my TIMING ...

                where can it be done, should i go to the ASS, won't they deny as my steed is modded and running with a p180 carb ??
                The co machines are there at all the TVS dealerships .But it takes as much as half an hour to tune a single carb on a bike,so they almost never use it.What with the turnover and the number of of bikes to be serviced in a day. The best you can do is get the job done at vishal's mech and make sure that the plug is dark in color and then head to a TVS ass and get the carb tuned.That is ,if the personnel there know what they are doing ,which is another thing all together.

                I believe buddy that you were this close to a engine seizure when you ripped the bike and i do believe the sound you heard is the same rattling.If you had continued i am sure ,engine would have seized up.

                This is not something which happens to modified engines only folks.The same thing happens when setting's are wrong ,that's the reason why intelligent systems like fuel injection is replacing the carbs.

                Just go through the other ownership threads and you will know engine seizures do happen.

                Oh another thing ,when the engine seizes up,its not a calm and peaceful thing. It's more like hitting a brick wall !! ask the 2 strokers and they will tell you about gun slinger reflex in pulling the clutch in and as to why their fingers hover over the clutch lever all the time.
                Needless to say when engine seizes up it won't be a happy occasion for the crank and gearbox either.To put it shortly the engine and gearbox most of the time will be goners.

                This was a common thing which used to happen with rd350.At least for 4 strokers engine oil lubricating the engine constantly is something which minimizes it.
                Life begins, once you hit the power band !!

                Comment


                • Hey guyz i have ben reading all the threads and its damm interesting!! anyways did u guyz (F2 owners) experience this bomb sound like misfiring while cruising at a high speed(70kmph+) and then leaving the accelerator. as someone mentioned Preignition, is this misfiring because of this?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tintin708 View Post
                    Hey guyz i have ben reading all the threads and its damm interesting!! anyways did u guyz (F2 owners) experience this bomb sound like misfiring while cruising at a high speed(70kmph+) and then leaving the accelerator. as someone mentioned Preignition, is this misfiring because of this?
                    Oh yeah I had this problem within warranty period. This is due to a faulty SAI (Secondary Air Injection) unit. Get it replaced. It costed Rs.670 long long back.
                    Quench my thirst with gasoline!

                    Comment


                    • There is a lot more than just the pre-ignition mess-up that haunt big-bore set-ups.
                      The cylinder head is the most important aspect to get the right state of tune. In a 4-stroke engine, the cylinder head is the biggest factor. Cams, piston, carb etc come to play later.
                      I always wonder whats this on xbhp that people emphasize so much on tuning a carb. 6 yrs ago when we used to discuss carbs, it was much better.
                      There is no magic in tuning a carb, and there is nothing hardcore about tuning a carb either. Its just a simple air screw that has to be turned. On a stock fiero/RTR/Pulsar BS series carb, all you need i 1.5 turns from closed and thats it.
                      There is no need of fiddling anything beyond that. There is no black magic or CO machine needed. All that matter after 30% of throttle is your main jet. Even pilot is no point.
                      And in this case, the problem is nothing with the carb. You guys are actually trying to diagnose a leg injury by eating tablets for stomach ache.
                      Take my clues and work on it. It will all work. set-up your cylinder head right.

                      Joel
                      sigpic
                      [email protected]

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Joel View Post
                        There is a lot more than just the pre-ignition mess-up that haunt big-bore set-ups.
                        The cylinder head is the most important aspect to get the right state of tune. In a 4-stroke engine, the cylinder head is the biggest factor. Cams, piston, carb etc come to play later.
                        I always wonder whats this on xbhp that people emphasize so much on tuning a carb. 6 yrs ago when we used to discuss carbs, it was much better.
                        There is no magic in tuning a carb, and there is nothing hardcore about tuning a carb either. Its just a simple air screw that has to be turned. On a stock fiero/RTR/Pulsar BS series carb, all you need i 1.5 turns from closed and thats it.
                        There is no need of fiddling anything beyond that. There is no black magic or CO machine needed. All that matter after 30% of throttle is your main jet. Even pilot is no point.
                        And in this case, the problem is nothing with the carb. You guys are actually trying to diagnose a leg injury by eating tablets for stomach ache.
                        Take my clues and work on it. It will all work. set-up your cylinder head right.

                        Joel
                        thanks joel for your inputs.

                        does getting the head right only includes MATCHING the head to the bore ??
                        shall i get porting also done, as it is i am removing my head anyways...

                        is my bike really really running lean ??

                        this is i found out over the internet







                        both of these are different spark plugs which are running LEAN



                        however in another search, i found out this..




                        doesn't it feel as if my spark plug is normal if we consider the pics ???
                        Giving a lot to a fiero.
                        Expecting a lot from a fiero.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NANOtechnology View Post
                          so the only thing needs to be done is...
                          make the AFR Rich..

                          and bore the head !!!

                          of course make the timing retarted too.

                          anything else ??

                          ================================================== ======

                          OMG! A lot has been going on since my last visit about 8 days ago. I had gone for Dashara break to my family farm towards the south-west of the country and have just returned (had gone without my Fiero). NANO bro... I'm sorry to hear about the incident. Must have felt really bad after the good start. I hope the trouble is nothing too serious. I'm also glad to see our very experienced senior members chip in their opinions. Made me think twice before the upgrade to a bigger bore. Hope everything falls in place and you can have a ton of advice for us potential upgraders. The forum has only been discussing this very serious matter since my last visit.
                          Cheers!!!

                          Comment


                          • i got my block it opened today.

                            the bad part is that i didn't take my camera as it was not planned that I'll get work done today.
                            i was just discussing the problem to a friend of mine and i thought why not ride at-least till the mech...

                            i rode very slowly (arr 20 kmph) at a distance of more than 15 kilometers and i reached well and calm, bike used to be harsh at times and smooth at times...

                            after reaching, i discussed the entire problem with the mech, he was scratching his head as he didn't understand anything what i explained, i went to him because he knows how to open and close the stuff well and does know to adjust timing..

                            he was very busy so i opened basic stuff like tank seat and similar stuff..
                            strangely i had been facing some battery issue before this problem as after fixing the high beam relay i forgot to float the ground wire, so i worked on my electricals until that time.
                            part by part i first got the head cover opened, checked the tappets, were all very fine and new.
                            got the head opened, the best part is that there's NO sign of anything hitting on it.
                            checked the valves, they too are very very fine.
                            it doesn't seem that ANYTHING was hitting it at all.

                            i checked the valve recesses, they are made very very smooth, i could easily rub my finger over that curvy surface, there's NO sign of sharp edges.

                            i didn't remove the piston though, all i did was take the head to the nearest BORE guy.
                            as VISHAL is out of town, i couldn't get it done from the same bore uncle who made my valve recesses.

                            so i grabbed the head, and that aluminum gasket (instead of the block) to the bore guy to match the head to the gasket (block).
                            now a strange thing happened.
                            that bore guy was saying that my HEAD CANNOT BE INCREASED TO MATCH THE BLOCK....
                            he told me that first of all the head is 1 piece...
                            normally other heads have a sleeve kind of a thing, which can be altered, besides in my case even if the head is EXPANDED, there would be a problem of valve's placement.
                            it won't fit in well.

                            he showed me a couple of heads on which it could be done (sleeved ones) and convinced me that my head is different and this process cannot be done...

                            i did tell him that one of my friends have done it (gixxer) who's using a karizma's piston..

                            but he wasn't confident and i didn't push him.
                            i went to a different bore guy later even he said the same thing..

                            so i thought that maybe I'll buy a new head itself as being without a ride has become a pain now, besides Vishal is out of town, even when he does come we have this problem of he being busy on weekdays and i an busy on weekends, so i though to cut the crap and finish it off once and for all as i have already opened the stuff.

                            i went to TVS, sadly the head wasn't available at that moment, and the worst part is that it doesn't come standalone, we get the head, the head cover, the valves, springs, timing sprocket, cam-shaft, bearings, tappets, and everything else...
                            it costs over 7000 and if i do want it I'll have to wait till Monday as they will order it for me.

                            most of my stuff is new, so i don't wish to spend soo much un-necessarily, just the camshaft costs somewhere about 1500 bucks.

                            so i went to another mech to ask for a solution, he was more knowledgble and has done similar stuff before, he said the same thing that this head cannot be expanded, it should have had a sleeve (damm all have wrong ideas), he asked me to increase the number of gaskets...

                            so i went back to TVS, grabbed 2 gaskets (block ones), and it was late in the night to do it, so i didn't rush things, kept the bike there and came back home....

                            the mech will work on the bike tomorrow, in the morning.

                            now i need very honest answers on what i am going to ask ahead....

                            what should i do ??
                            i know that Vishal's bore guy CAN do it, but i can't go there all by myself atleast now, and that will take a lot of time ....

                            should i do the thing of just increasing the number of gaskets for now and then when Vishal comes, go to the bore guy and get it sorted with porting too ??

                            shall i grab my OLD BLOCK AND PISTON tomorrow morning as again a temporary setup until Vishal arrives and then get this thing sorted ??

                            any other recommendation and solution ????

                            please let me know before morning...
                            Giving a lot to a fiero.
                            Expecting a lot from a fiero.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NANOtechnology View Post
                              i got my block it opened today.

                              the bad part is that i didn't take my camera as it was not planned that I'll get work done today.
                              i was just discussing the problem to a friend of mine and i thought why not ride at-least till the mech...

                              i rode very slowly (arr 20 kmph) at a distance of more than 15 kilometers and i reached well and calm, bike used to be harsh at times and smooth at times...

                              after reaching, i discussed the entire problem with the mech, he was scratching his head as he didn't understand anything what i explained, i went to him because he knows how to open and close the stuff well and does know to adjust timing..

                              he was very busy so i opened basic stuff like tank seat and similar stuff..
                              strangely i had been facing some battery issue before this problem as after fixing the high beam relay i forgot to float the ground wire, so i worked on my electricals until that time.
                              part by part i first got the head cover opened, checked the tappets, were all very fine and new.
                              got the head opened, the best part is that there's NO sign of anything hitting on it.
                              checked the valves, they too are very very fine.
                              it doesn't seem that ANYTHING was hitting it at all.

                              i checked the valve recesses, they are made very very smooth, i could easily rub my finger over that curvy surface, there's NO sign of sharp edges.

                              i didn't remove the piston though, all i did was take the head to the nearest BORE guy.
                              as VISHAL is out of town, i couldn't get it done from the same bore uncle who made my valve recesses.

                              so i grabbed the head, and that aluminum gasket (instead of the block) to the bore guy to match the head to the gasket (block).
                              now a strange thing happened.
                              that bore guy was saying that my HEAD CANNOT BE INCREASED TO MATCH THE BLOCK....
                              he told me that first of all the head is 1 piece...
                              normally other heads have a sleeve kind of a thing, which can be altered, besides in my case even if the head is EXPANDED, there would be a problem of valve's placement.
                              it won't fit in well.

                              he showed me a couple of heads on which it could be done (sleeved ones) and convinced me that my head is different and this process cannot be done...

                              i did tell him that one of my friends have done it (gixxer) who's using a karizma's piston..

                              but he wasn't confident and i didn't push him.
                              i went to a different bore guy later even he said the same thing..

                              so i thought that maybe I'll buy a new head itself as being without a ride has become a pain now, besides Vishal is out of town, even when he does come we have this problem of he being busy on weekdays and i an busy on weekends, so i though to cut the crap and finish it off once and for all as i have already opened the stuff.

                              i went to TVS, sadly the head wasn't available at that moment, and the worst part is that it doesn't come standalone, we get the head, the head cover, the valves, springs, timing sprocket, cam-shaft, bearings, tappets, and everything else...
                              it costs over 7000 and if i do want it I'll have to wait till Monday as they will order it for me.

                              most of my stuff is new, so i don't wish to spend soo much un-necessarily, just the camshaft costs somewhere about 1500 bucks.

                              so i went to another mech to ask for a solution, he was more knowledgble and has done similar stuff before, he said the same thing that this head cannot be expanded, it should have had a sleeve (damm all have wrong ideas), he asked me to increase the number of gaskets...

                              so i went back to TVS, grabbed 2 gaskets (block ones), and it was late in the night to do it, so i didn't rush things, kept the bike there and came back home....

                              the mech will work on the bike tomorrow, in the morning.

                              now i need very honest answers on what i am going to ask ahead....

                              what should i do ??
                              i know that Vishal's bore guy CAN do it, but i can't go there all by myself atleast now, and that will take a lot of time ....

                              should i do the thing of just increasing the number of gaskets for now and then when Vishal comes, go to the bore guy and get it sorted with porting too ??

                              shall i grab my OLD BLOCK AND PISTON tomorrow morning as again a temporary setup until Vishal arrives and then get this thing sorted ??

                              any other recommendation and solution ????

                              please let me know before morning...
                              ================================================== ====

                              NANO bro ... the increased gasket solution seems like a good way to go right now. Since you said nothing is wrong with the components, just do that and wait for Vishal to come back. That's all I can say from a layman's point of view. Don't rush into things. Any luck with old used 180 Heads at the salvage yard? That could be the ultimate sloution at a throw-away price. In the mean time you could check your bike for any other defects.
                              Keep your hopes up!!! cheers!!! ... sometimes there is nothing better to do except be patient.

                              Comment


                              • @Nanotech

                                Originally posted by gixxer_junkie_m View Post
                                What's the case with nanotech's bike is ,that since the head is 57 mm wide and the new bore kit is 62.5 mm wide .So this is the reason for very high compression.Once the head is made to match the 62.5 mm bore ,then the compression should come down a bit and i believe that will cool things a bit further.

                                In my bike's case the whole thing was taken care off by the lathe ,that is they even increased the squish area around the valves a bit to decrease compression.As my bike's head is heavily ported.
                                Originally posted by gixxer_junkie_m View Post
                                @Nanotech

                                Yeah you can richen the a/f ratio yourself but you have to keep checking the plug while you are doing it to make sure the plug turns dark/black.

                                Forget the new head buddy ,no need to buy it .Nothing would have happened that's not repairable .

                                Richen the a/f ASAP



                                The richening of the carb is just a temporary measure,a first aid you might say .It's like putting a band-aid over a wound which needs 20 stitches.The main issue is the ignition timing and a lean carb has made it worse .But tuning the carb now will only save the engine from serious damage.What it need's is expert attention.

                                I suggest you get the ignition timing set at a mech who understands what's advance and retard timings are and how to set it.If timing is not set properly,what can i say ,you already know the result.
                                For anyone who hasn't got the patience to read the posts from the previous pages ,regarding what is being suggested by us and what the diagnosis has been.The above posts are mine and i hope it clears up things.

                                All this confusion and problems would have never happened if nanotech had gotten the head matched when the 180 upgrade was done.

                                Those who have been following this thread ,will clearly remember that i had suggested the engine-head work from the very first day as being mandatory.
                                Last edited by gixxer_junkie_m; 10-22-2010, 04:14 PM.
                                Life begins, once you hit the power band !!

                                Comment

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