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  • Originally posted by MSN1 View Post
    I believe lean or rich burning is something related to the carb settings, moreover to the best of my knowledge in terms of engine 100 cc is a lean burn engine where 250cc and above which are not.
    Madhu, Lean burn engine is totally different; it is not lean tuning.

    Comment


    • Recently came to know that my bike(ZMA) has a lean burn engine, but actually dont know what a lean burn engine is(btw my bikes AFR is set at rich) so when searching for it came to know that the Enfield & GS150R are also lean burn bikes, and hence you being an owner, wanted to enquire whether you knew its technical meaning and what diferentiates it from other engines and also wanted to know if it'll harm the engine if we set it at a richer setting than stock.
      Motorcycling Experience:
      2000 ~ 2017 Y2K Kinetic Zoom (Disposed at 15k)
      2011 ~ 2015 Hero Honda Karizma R (Sold at 56.5k)
      2013 ~ 2014 Bajaj Discover 100 4G (Sold at 16.5k)
      2015 ~ 2017 TVS Wego (Totaled at 18k)
      2015 - Bajaj Pulsar 220F (Currently 31k) < Garage Queen!
      2017 - Bajaj CT100B (Currently 21k) < 'Golden Quadrilateral' Runner!

      The Ride was Good, but Life is short, spend it Wisely!
      Adios Comrades!
      A.P. 2018

      Comment


      • By wikipedia, a lean burn engine is one in which the air-fuel mixture is heavily biased towards air than fuel i.e. the combustion charge has a lot more air than fuel.

        So, from what I could gather....These engines tolerate higher compression ratios and pollute less but require a different cat-con compared to conventional engines (not sure what conventional refers to).

        Well, I dont recall the GS having a higher compression than others in its class. But I do know that the exhaust of the GS is considerably more expensive than others. 10000 bucks when i had it replaced...which could imply a non-conventional cat-con setup.

        @ashwinprakas: Im guessing it wont hurt setting the AFR richer in this engine, anymore than in other engines.
        Last edited by 2strokerama; 12-02-2011, 01:07 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 2strokerama View Post
          By wikipedia, a lean burn engine is one in which the air-fuel mixture is heavily biased towards air than fuel i.e. the combustion charge has a lot more air than fuel.

          So, from what I could gather....These engines tolerate higher compression ratios and pollute less but require a different cat-con compared to conventional engines (not sure what conventional refers to).

          Well, I dont recall the GS having a higher compression than others in its class. But I do know that the exhaust of the GS is considerably more expensive than others. 10000 bucks when i had it replaced...which could imply a non-conventional cat-con setup.

          @ashwinprakas: Im guessing it wont hurt setting the AFR richer in this engine, anymore than in other engines.
          Saw the wikipedia page bro, but it doesnt explain why the engine doesnt heatup like normal ones. And about the exhaust part, is there by any chance the exhausts are what makes the engines lean burn???
          Motorcycling Experience:
          2000 ~ 2017 Y2K Kinetic Zoom (Disposed at 15k)
          2011 ~ 2015 Hero Honda Karizma R (Sold at 56.5k)
          2013 ~ 2014 Bajaj Discover 100 4G (Sold at 16.5k)
          2015 ~ 2017 TVS Wego (Totaled at 18k)
          2015 - Bajaj Pulsar 220F (Currently 31k) < Garage Queen!
          2017 - Bajaj CT100B (Currently 21k) < 'Golden Quadrilateral' Runner!

          The Ride was Good, but Life is short, spend it Wisely!
          Adios Comrades!
          A.P. 2018

          Comment


          • ^^^ Liquid cooling for the heat? Its related to the combustion, not the exhaust, as far as I can tell but Im no expert.

            Where did you get this info from, that our engines are lean burn? Post a link to the source.

            Anyway, from a practical POV, it doesnt matter to us as long as our engines breathe in and breathe out properly.

            Comment


            • @DSN: Congrats!
              Did you get your GS from Simran's Suzuki Panvel? Do your regular servicing at Simran's SC. They are pretty good. Bikes are serviced with attention to critical areas and they don't loot customers like Thane SC
              anything that can go wrong will surely go wrong at the wrong time and the wrong place

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 2strokerama View Post
                ^^^ Liquid cooling for the heat? Its related to the combustion, not the exhaust, as far as I can tell but Im no expert.

                Where did you get this info from, that our engines are lean burn? Post a link to the source.

                Anyway, from a practical POV, it doesnt matter to us as long as our engines breathe in and breathe out properly.
                Sarin bro aka kb100, when we met last week said that my bike was lean burn, I just took that for granted cause it didnt stand out at that time, but recently I've got very curious about it, when searching the web it shows infos on trucks and cars no bikes, but when I searched xbhp(site:xbhp.com: lean burn engine) all the search results had three things in common..Enfield..Karizma... and GS150R.
                Motorcycling Experience:
                2000 ~ 2017 Y2K Kinetic Zoom (Disposed at 15k)
                2011 ~ 2015 Hero Honda Karizma R (Sold at 56.5k)
                2013 ~ 2014 Bajaj Discover 100 4G (Sold at 16.5k)
                2015 ~ 2017 TVS Wego (Totaled at 18k)
                2015 - Bajaj Pulsar 220F (Currently 31k) < Garage Queen!
                2017 - Bajaj CT100B (Currently 21k) < 'Golden Quadrilateral' Runner!

                The Ride was Good, but Life is short, spend it Wisely!
                Adios Comrades!
                A.P. 2018

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 2strokerama View Post
                  the exhaust of the GS is considerably more expensive than others. 10000 bucks when i had it replaced...which could imply a non-conventional cat-con setup.
                  CatCon is one of the most frequently stolen parts of vehicles. The catalytes in chemical reactions are often least reactive metals, Gold, platinum etc. And our
                  GS might be having platinum. We had a chemistry researcher among us to explain it better.
                  His absence only proves, he's busy.
                  These days extracting such metals from discarded Mo-Bos is NEWS.
                  Last edited by SparKot; 12-02-2011, 11:45 AM.
                  There is no honest path to prosperity - KoKa
                  Useful Resources Over Internet

                  Comment


                  • @Ashwinprakas

                    Lean Burn Engine

                    Basically, engines which can operate in very lean air / fuel mixture are called "Lean Burn Engines". Japanese car makers, heading by Toyota, are the leaders in this technology.
                    Apparently, the leaner air / fuel mixture, the more frugal the engine is. But there are two reasons prevent conventional engines from operating in lean air / fuel mixture:


                    If the mixture is too lean, the engine will fail to combust.
                    Naturally, lower fuel concentration leads to less output.
                    .
                    Lean burn engines avoid these problems by adopting a highly efficient mixing process. They use special shape pistons, with intake manifolds located and angled matching the pistons, the intake air will generate swirl inside the combustion chamber. Swirl leads to more complete mixing of fuel and air, thus largely reduce the badly-mixed fuel particles, which will not be burnt in conventional engines. This enables more complete burning, not only reduces pollutant, but also allow the fuel / air ratio to be lowered from 1 : 14 to 1 : 25 without altering output.
                    Today, Lean Burn technology has evolved into Direct Injection, which is basically the former added with direct fuel injection. Toyota, Mitsubishi and Nissan all concentrate in DI engines development.
                    Source- AutoZine Technical School - Engine



                    What is a lean-burn engine?

                    Lean-burn means pretty much what it says. It is a lean amount of fuel supplied to and burned in an engine's combustion chamber. Normal air-to-fuel ratio is on the order of 15:1 (15 parts air to 1 part fuel). True lean-burn can go as high as 23:1.

                    Lean-burn engines (both gasoline and diesel) enjoy higher fuel economy and cleaner emissions than conventionally tuned engines. By nature they use less fuel and emit fewer unburned hydrocarbons and greenhouse gases while producing equivalent power of a like-sized "normal" combustion engine. They achieve lean-burn status by employing higher combustion chamber compression ratios (higher cylinder pressure), significant air intake swirl and precise lean-metered direct fuel injection.
                    The downfall of lean-burn technology is increased exhaust NOx emissions (due to higher heat and cylinder pressure) and a somewhat narrower RPM power-band (due to slower burn rates of lean mixtures). Vehicles that use these types of engines require more complex catalytic converters and are often limited to light duty uses (passenger vehicles versus commercial trucks).

                    What is a Lean-Burn Engine - How does Lean-Burn Technology work



                    Lean Burn Engine
                    What it is:
                    A lean burn engine is designed to operate with a very lean air-fuel ratio during light load conditions. Most modern gasoline engines are controlled to run at a chemically correct (stoichiometric) air fuel ratio (about 14.7:1) to make the three-way catalyst operate at high efficiency, reducing tail-pipe emissions. Lean burn engines mix more air with the fuel when full power is not needed, resulting in better fuel economy. Air/fuel ratio in lean burn engines can be as high as 22:1. When full power is needed, such as during acceleration or hill climbing, a lean burn engine reverts to a stoichiometric (14.7:1) ratio or richer.

                    How it works:
                    A very lean mixture of air and gasoline will not ignite as easily as a stoichiometric mixture when a spark is introduced. Several methods can be employed to achieve lean burn, including high temperature, high turbulence and stratification (high concentration of fuel vapor near the spark plug). Lean burn engines are often designed with high intake swirl to increase turbulence. Direct injection is one way to provide stratification. Since more air is taken in, the throttle plate can be opened wider for a given power, and losses associated with pumping are reduced. Lean operation also results in higher combustion efficiency and lower heat losses for better fuel economy. Note: Current three-way catalysts are designed to optimise NOx reduction at close to stoichiometric ratio. Lean burn engines generally cannot meet strict NOx emissions standards using three-way catalyst; additional NOx controls are necessary.

                    Customer benefit:
                    Better fuel efficiency without sacrificing engine power.

                    Industry status:
                    Under development.

                    NEW TECH: Lean Burn Engine


                    Lean burn
                    Lean burn is an internal combustion of lean air-fuel mixtures. It happens at very high air-fuel ratios (up to 65:1), so the mixture has considerably less amount of fuel in comparison to stoichiometric combustion ratio (14.6:1 for petrol).

                    The engines designed for lean burning can employ higher compression ratios and thus provide better performance, efficient fuel use and low exhaust emissions than those found in conventional petrol engines. Ultra lean mixtures with very high air-fuel ratios can only be achieved by Direct Injection engines.

                    The main drawback of lean burning is the large amount of NOx being generated, so a complex catalytic converter system is required. Lean burn engines do not work well with modern 3-way catalytic converters, which require a balance of pollutants at the exhaust port in order to carry out both oxidation and reduction reactions, so most modern engines run at or near the stoichiometric point.

                    Engines: Lean burn


                    All these pages just point to statement already discussed here in previous posts.
                    In today's world, quotes don't matter. Quotas do!

                    Comment


                    • That explains Lean-Burn.

                      Why is it associated with bikes like Karizma and Enfield. Or, only lean burn could get them sold?

                      Ahh, now I think I get where that ZMA comes from.
                      There is no honest path to prosperity - KoKa
                      Useful Resources Over Internet

                      Comment


                      • for front suspension.....change the fork oil every 12-13k kms....and also check that the fork bolts are not over tightened!!!!
                        sigpic


                        My Saddlesore Log : The 1st Successful Saddlesore in World on a GS150R

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post
                          when I searched xbhp(site:xbhp.com: lean burn engine) all the search results had three things in common..Enfield..Karizma... and GS150R.

                          Do not believe all that you hear about tappet noise, self engine tuning, engine oils, JASO MA2 specifications, cleaning non O-ring chain, necessity to reach 4K or higher rpm to shift up to higher gear (the tachometer of almost all bikes are show pieces; not showing correct engine rpm) etc. etc. Actually, riding in higher gears without straining the engine gives better FE.
                          Some are claiming that a specific brand of oil is giving extraordinary speed, engine smoothness and increase in FE, which is doubtful and needs to be proved.

                          Comment


                          • Mileage

                            Originally posted by vishnukmd View Post
                            Actually, riding in higher gears without straining the engine gives better FE.
                            Some are claiming that a specific brand of oil is giving extraordinary speed, engine smoothness and increase in FE, which is doubtful and needs to be proved.
                            Vishnu :
                            In the poll, yours is the only name figuring in the 60+ category

                            So, your comments will be viewed more seriously. Please tell us, whether we can get 60+ mileage if we drive in top gear in 4000rpm

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by vishnukmd View Post
                              Do not believe all that you hear about tappet noise, self engine tuning, engine oils, JASO MA2 specifications, cleaning non O-ring chain, necessity to reach 4K or higher rpm to shift up to higher gear (the tachometer of almost all bikes are show pieces; not showing correct engine rpm) etc. etc. Actually, riding in higher gears without straining the engine gives better FE.
                              Vishnu I am an advocate of self engine tuning. Don't hurt my feelings

                              The suzuki guys never did a good job of tuning the engine before I myself did it as per the guide on this thread. Now I specifically tell them not to touch the carb and disturb the settings.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rajeshbw View Post
                                Vishnu :
                                In the poll, yours is the only name figuring in the 60+ category

                                So, your comments will be viewed more seriously. Please tell us, whether we can get 60+ mileage if we drive in top gear in 4000rpm
                                I too have got 60+ twice in highway riding...
                                But my city avg is 55+ ..
                                I'm shifting in the range of 3k to 4k randomly depending on the traffic conditions..
                                We can ride in top gear at 3k itself w/o any trouble...

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