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**rakeshchn** · 09-10-2018, 05:28 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Regarding cold starts and in general any starts for this bike I have learned a technique which mostly works for me (i can start with second kick or second button press usually). You have to open the throttle slightly JUST immediately after the kick or button press. The timing is important, if throttle is open before the kick it seems doesnt work. My previous bike didnt need any throttle input to start which should be ideally the case.

**RebellionRiderRTR** · 09-11-2018, 12:56 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by rakeshchn View Post

Regarding cold starts and in general any starts for this bike I have learned a technique which mostly works for me (i can start with second kick or second button press usually). You have to open the throttle slightly JUST immediately after the kick or button press. The timing is important, if throttle is open before the kick it seems doesnt work. My previous bike didnt need any throttle input to start which should be ideally the case.

Kinda tricky as u speak, i am not having any issues with the self or kick as of now with cold starts. But Noted.

**rakeshchn** · 09-19-2018, 01:27 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Guys, regarding mileage I am getting confusing results after repeated tests. I am using reserve to reserve method and filling about 2 ltrs of petrol for a test. All variables like riding style, traffic condition, petrol pump etc. are kept constant. Some times I get 35 Kmpl and other times 43Kmpl (these figures remain almost exact when I get them). But what I am noticing is when I get 35 Kmpl the fuel level indicator in speedo has 2 bars remaining when hitting reserve, and when I get 43 it has one bar. Wanted to know your observation...Do you usually ride some kms with fuel level indicator in one bar before hitting reserve or you hit reserve when having 2 bars?

**RebellionRiderRTR** · 09-20-2018, 10:51 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by rakeshchn View Post

Guys, regarding mileage I am getting confusing results after repeated tests. I am using reserve to reserve method and filling about 2 ltrs of petrol for a test. All variables like riding style, traffic condition, petrol pump etc. are kept constant. Some times I get 35 Kmpl and other times 43Kmpl (these figures remain almost exact when I get them). But what I am noticing is when I get 35 Kmpl the fuel level indicator in speedo has 2 bars remaining when hitting reserve, and when I get 43 it has one bar. Wanted to know your observation...Do you usually ride some kms with fuel level indicator in one bar before hitting reserve or you hit reserve when having 2 bars?

My experience is mostly with 2 bars when i get into reserve. Other than bike if you place bike in any inclined position and petrol indicator doesnt catch it sometimes. Mostly my reserve will be in 2 bars and low fuel warning at 1 bar.

**satish!** · 09-20-2018, 11:06 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

What is the reserve capacity? 2.5 liters right?

**RebellionRiderRTR** · 09-20-2018, 11:28 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by satish! View Post

What is the reserve capacity? 2.5 liters right?

Yes, as company claims but i differ as my reserve to low warning symbol is 1 litre and from low warning it is 0.5 lit. This observation is totally my personal experience. I need to take time to get total clarification on it.

**ashwinprakas** · 09-20-2018, 11:36 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by rakeshchn View Post

Regarding cold starts and in general any starts for this bike I have learned a technique which mostly works for me (i can start with second kick or second button press usually). You have to open the throttle slightly JUST immediately after the kick or button press. The timing is important, if throttle is open before the kick it seems doesnt work. My previous bike didnt need any throttle input to start which should be ideally the case.

You can start with the first press itself, just don't leave the button until the motor fires up, it helps to keep the throttle slightly open while starting after an extended break i.e overnight. And you need not worry too much about load on starter motor or battery as these things are designed to handle much worse. The thing about open throttles is that at times it triggers the TPS so do be cautious.

I would suggest you not depend on the kick-starter unless you really need it as it is present as a fail safe and not as a primary means of starting the motor, plus having to change a kicker oil seal prematurely defeats the purpose of having a self starter in the first place considering reliability.

Originally posted by rakeshchn View Post

Guys, regarding mileage I am getting confusing results after repeated tests. I am using reserve to reserve method and filling about 2 ltrs of petrol for a test. All variables like riding style, traffic condition, petrol pump etc. are kept constant. Some times I get 35 Kmpl and other times 43Kmpl (these figures remain almost exact when I get them). But what I am noticing is when I get 35 Kmpl the fuel level indicator in speedo has 2 bars remaining when hitting reserve, and when I get 43 it has one bar. Wanted to know your observation...Do you usually ride some kms with fuel level indicator in one bar before hitting reserve or you hit reserve when having 2 bars?

Thumb rule is to let it be as long as all consumables are in check and there is no smoke or oil residue because no matter how hard you try you cannot contain all variables. Plus straining the motor Indian style to get more FE actually results in a FE drop as the motor is designed to work its best at peak RPM's and fuel consumption depends on your right wrist.

Do go through this if you find the time, this is a quote from an informative thread I started on Tbhp;

Issues faced in general.

We’ve all experienced a hick-up once in a while, some of them are disconcerting and require attention whereas the majority of concerns are baseless and a result of our misinformation, so to clear those here are a few pointers, but before moving on to them you must realize that your motorcycle is a machine with numerous moving components that get affected by numerous factors internal and external, so a blip here and there like the below are no reason for panic;

a. Cold Starting: We’ve all heard tales of motorcycles starting in the first go but for the majority of us that is a hit and miss scenario, at times the motorcycle fires up in the first thumb/kick but at times it takes several turns to fire the motorcycle up, which is quite normal as a stock motorcycle is tuned to run fine within a ‘range’ of atmospheric conditions which as far as India Is concerned is a pretty wide one.

A few misconceptions surrounding this area is the use of the choke and kick-starter. You are expected to only use the choke sparingly due the chances of ‘bore wash’ happening, a scenario where a richer AF mixture can wash away the cylinder lubrication and result in premature wear and tear, so only use the Choke If the motorcycle is absolutely refusing to start otherwise. Concerns regarding battery load is pointless, because a motorcycle battery should ideally be replaced once every 3 years and within this service limit the battery would have no issues pulling several cranks of the starter before actually facing considerable drains, this has been confirmed with a multi-meter, plus it is common sense to load the battery in the convenience and safety of your garage than to end up stranded in less ideal situations.

Now comes the use of the kicks-starter, some motorcyclists believe that the first start of the day should be done only using the kick-starter, now this is absolute baseless. And as for a matter of fact the kick-starter is just a fail-safe on motorcycles with a self-starter, which is why it should only be used if the self-starter is unable to start the motorcycle, as otherwise it runs the risk of the kicker seal wearing down which makes a good percent of the having a self-starter in the first place pointless, then the next matter of concern is that kicker mechanisms on some modern motorcycles are not made to take on such daily abuse, so on these motorcycles it is just a matter of time before you break the kick-starter and run the risk of it not being functional when you might actually require it.

b. Engine Noise: Unless you hear anything ungodly there is no reason for panic, all components have a predetermined service life and clearance ‘ranges’, and as long as replacements and adjustments are made in a timely manner there is no reason to be alarmed over slight changes to engine note, that ideally you won’t even notice with a good helmet on.

c. Vibrations: Same follows, especially in the case of single cylinder motorcycles, even with counter-balancers being present. As long as all fasteners are periodically inspected and replaced as per recommended intervals all is fine.

d. Throttle response: Same thing, slight fluctuations are common and more prominent in the case of carburetted motorcycles, and for the record a stock carburettor on a stock motorcycle should not be fiddled with unless it is completely dismantled and overhauled as too much fiddling would cause premature wear. The idle speed should be adjusted when cold so that the rev’s doesn’t drop below the operating range of the auto-decompressor which ideally is below the 1.1k mark, when the temperature goes up it is fine for the idle to go up and in some occasions when extremely hot almost close to the 2k mark which again is normal and adjusting the idle speed on a very hot motorcycle would only result in idling issues when cold, so leave the idle screw alone. Plus it is common-sense to not let a motorcycle idle for long especially air-cooled motorcycles so its engines off when halting for extended periods.

e. Fuel Efficiency: As long as all consumables have been replaced in a timely manner the fuel efficiency of a motorcycle is dependent on the rider and riding conditions, and fiddling with the carburettor would only result in premature wear and component failure. So if you’re not satisfied with the fuel efficiency and there’s no smoke coming out of the tail pipe then most likely you chose the wrong motorcycle.

f. General Rattling: Again, unless you can hear it while riding with a good helmet on, it is best to ignore it, as panels tend to rattle eventually which is inevitable and measures such as double-sided taping, reassembling fairing etc. would only give you limited peace and is not worth the time, money or effort considering the whole scheme of things.

Now at times in spite of timely maintenance (provided that actually happens), there would still be issues, now these are things that require your undivided attention, if components fail within the warranty period then you can get them changed under warranty and if the motorcycle is out of warranty then better to go for a complete part replacement than make-shift overhauls as the latter is the prime cause for recurring issues. Now an untimely component failure is something that is exceptionally rare these days so if you do face anything it would be best to think back on what you might’ve missed which could’ve resulted in the failure than jumping the gun to blame the manufacturer, there are exceptions in this case as at times fault can be with the manufacturer and in which case you should reach out via the former channels to ensure redressal all the while ensuring that you maintain a record of all transactions, such issues usually show up within the warranty period especially if the product in question is new, which would ideally mean that the issue would be resolved with the least possible inconvenience to the rider.

All being said and done, do note that minor inconveniences would pop up on brand new motorcycles with odometer readings below the 10,000 km’s mark which actually is normal as most motorcycles being mass produced in India it takes some running for some parts to bed-in at times, so don’t be worried just because the motorcycles runs rough for the first couple of thousands, which in other words the technician politely tells you that issues would go away as you complete more services when in fact there is no magic going on during regular servicing other than consumables being inspected and replaced. And while we’re on consumables please be aware that certain consumables may give up any time without warning, hence better to carry spares even in spite of timely replacement, for components such as Control Cables etc, as such components would not be replaced under warranty for obvious reasons.

**rakeshchn** · 09-20-2018, 05:03 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

[MENTION=37035]ashwinprakas[/MENTION] I am a regular reader of Team BHP forums & have already read your thread in T-BHP. Its a good one, very comprehensive.
Regarding mileage I get your point, but when we buy a bike we do fair bit of research on expected mileage and given current fuel prices its an important decision point. For RTR 160 4v ARAI claimed mileage is 60 and I saw this video of bike on a test machine giving 63 https://youtu.be/dyMbrsoh4kA
Real world riding conditions I expected 40+ thats why so concerned about the 35 kmpl

**Purnakalik** · 09-20-2018, 07:48 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by rakeshchn View Post

[MENTION=37035]ashwinprakas[/MENTION] I am a regular reader of Team BHP forums & have already read your thread in T-BHP. Its a good one, very comprehensive.
Regarding mileage I get your point, but when we buy a bike we do fair bit of research on expected mileage and given current fuel prices its an important decision point. For RTR 160 4v ARAI claimed mileage is 60 and I saw this video of bike on a test machine giving 63 https://youtu.be/dyMbrsoh4kA
Real world riding conditions I expected 40+ thats why so concerned about the 35 kmpl

The video was of a bike tested inside a service center on a machine not in real life condition.
There's so many factors in real life like drag, weather and temperature, friction, road conditions, tyre pressure, speed, acceleration, deceleration, gear shifts and it's efficiency and a whole lot more.
Moreover the person riding the bike is riding the bike at a constant speed of around 50 and in the last gear which is conducive for getting the best mileage.
That test is useful to check if in the ideal conditions the bike performs as intended which won't help much in the real world.

**ashwinprakas** · 09-20-2018, 07:49 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by rakeshchn View Post

@ashwinprakas I am a regular reader of Team BHP forums & have already read your thread in T-BHP. Its a good one, very comprehensive.
Regarding mileage I get your point, but when we buy a bike we do fair bit of research on expected mileage and given current fuel prices its an important decision point. For RTR 160 4v ARAI claimed mileage is 60 and I saw this video of bike on a test machine giving 63 https://youtu.be/dyMbrsoh4kA
Real world riding conditions I expected 40+ thats why so concerned about the 35 kmpl

Okay, lets diagnose the issue.

Did you inspect the spark plug? Is there soot on the exhaust tip? Is there smoke at high revs?

If yes, then you're running rich and you need to re-tune your carburetor.

But fact of the matter is that since your motorcycle is stock and all consumables are presumably in good condition then you would not notice anything odd with the spark-plug or any soot at the exhaust tip or any smoke at high revs.

So then what could be the cause?

Faulty ignition? If so you would've already reported bogging at lower revs, which isn't the case, so what next?

Incorrect tappet clearances? Unlikely on a new motorcycle but even if that were the case you would've noticed it by now, so then what?

Everything seems to be in order and the only thing that offers tweak-ability is the AFR screw, so what if we tune it?

Well the issue with messing with the AFR screw is that the idle circuit has very minimal impact on overall performance and fuel efficiency, and if you dial it too lean then you run the inconvenience of hesitant cold starts, idle rising and sticking when hot, motorcycle stalling at times etc. Plus if you keep on messing with it then you end up wearing out the AFR cavity after which you'll have to get the whole carburetor replaced.

So is it worth it? Nope, if you go by logic.

So then what about the test shown in the video?

It is absolutely bogus, the people conducting the test are not knowledgeable or credible and what they have managed to do with such tests is negate the multitude of variables that come into play when riding in our specific climatic and road conditions.

My CT100B has an ARAI claimed 89.5 Kmpl, on the highways at wide open throttle for under 2 weeks on the GQ ride I did get a FE of over 60Kmpl, but now I commute from Pothencode to East Fort and back via Sreekaryam daily and the FE I get is in the ballpark of 40~50 Kmpl and it doesn't bother me because I service my own motorcycle and know that everything is in check which translates to the fact that the FE that I'm receiving is the optimum FE attainable in the said conditions, no two ways about it.

Hope I've got the message through to you, if the FE is bothering you then that just means you did not do adequate research before purchase and ended up buying the wrong motorcycle and no amounts of fiddling with it is going to make a considerable difference without adversely impacting reliability, hard but true.

The reason mechanics don't tell you this is due the possibility of it denting the prospect of them making money taking advantage of your gullibility.

Cheers,
A.P.

**#bpk** · 09-20-2018, 08:16 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

Okay, lets diagnose the issue.

Did you inspect the spark plug? Is there soot on the exhaust tip? Is there smoke at high revs?

If yes, then you're running rich and you need to re-tune your carburetor.

But fact of the matter is that since your motorcycle is stock and all consumables are presumably in good condition then you would not notice anything odd with the spark-plug or any soot at the exhaust tip or any smoke at high revs.

So then what could be the cause?

Faulty ignition? If so you would've already reported bogging at lower revs, which isn't the case, so what next?

Incorrect tappet clearances? Unlikely on a new motorcycle but even if that were the case you would've noticed it by now, so then what?

Everything seems to be in order and the only thing that offers tweak-ability is the AFR screw, so what if we tune it?

Well the issue with messing with the AFR screw is that the idle circuit has very minimal impact on overall performance and fuel efficiency, and if you dial it too lean then you run the inconvenience of hesitant cold starts, idle rising and sticking when hot, motorcycle stalling at times etc. Plus if you keep on messing with it then you end up wearing out the AFR cavity after which you'll have to get the whole carburetor replaced.

So is it worth it? Nope, if you go by logic.

So then what about the test shown in the video?

It is absolutely bogus, the people conducting the test are not knowledgeable or credible and what they have managed to do with such tests is negate the multitude of variables that come into play when riding in our specific climatic and road conditions.

My CT100B has an ARAI claimed 89.5 Kmpl, on the highways at wide open throttle for under 2 weeks on the GQ ride I did get a FE of over 60Kmpl, but now I commute from Pothencode to East Fort and back via Sreekaryam daily and the FE I get is in the ballpark of 40~50 Kmpl and it doesn't bother me because I service my own motorcycle and know that everything is in check which translates to the fact that the FE that I'm receiving is the optimum FE attainable in the said conditions, no two ways about it.

Hope I've got the message through to you, if the FE is bothering you then that just means you did not do adequate research before purchase and ended up buying the wrong motorcycle and no amounts of fiddling with it is going to make a considerable difference without adversely impacting reliability, hard but true.

The reason mechanics don't tell you this is due the possibility of it denting the prospect of them making money taking advantage of your gullibility.

Cheers,
A.P.

But it should return atleast 45kmpl, since it has highest compression ratio among air cooled motorcycles. Higher compression ratio = higher performance + higher mileage.

**ashwinprakas** · 09-20-2018, 08:23 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by #bpk View Post

But it should return atleast 45kmpl, since it has highest compression ratio among air cooled motorcycles. Higher compression ratio = higher performance + higher mileage.

Not exactly.

Higher compression ratio means more susceptible to the aforementioned variables when it comes to real life conditions.

**#bpk** · 09-20-2018, 08:40 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

Not exactly.

Higher compression ratio means more susceptible to the aforementioned variables when it comes to real life conditions.

See this

**ashwinprakas** · 09-20-2018, 11:15 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by #bpk View Post

See this

I don't know where to start, anyways I would suggest you start reading from reliable sources that present facts rather than opinions.

Food for thought would be to compare the R15 and the RTR160 4V, if going by the higher CR= More Power + More FE then how come the R15 is expected to return only 35~40 Kmpl compared to the RTR160 4V which is expected to return 60 Kmpl when the former is a Liquid Cooled, Fuel Injector motor whereas the latter is an Air Cooled, Carburetted motorcycle?

**#bpk** · 09-20-2018, 11:39 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 160 4V Ownership Experience

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

I don't know where to start, anyways I would suggest you start reading from reliable sources that present facts rather than opinions.

Food for thought would be to compare the R15 and the RTR160 4V, if going by the higher CR= More Power + More FE then how come the R15 is expected to return only 35~40 Kmpl compared to the RTR160 4V which is expected to return 60 Kmpl when the former is a Liquid Cooled, Fuel Injector motor whereas the latter is an Air Cooled, Carburetted motorcycle?

See R 15 v3 mileage testing videos in YouTube, it has even higher CR than v2. 160 4v should give atleast 45kmpl, since it has thinner tyres than Japanese 150cc streetfighters.

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