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**honda_vings** · 11-08-2010, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by ironman View Post

Frankly you're making very little sense here. The bike we are talking about can't be just any other bike from Honda. It's a bike which will hit not only India and Thailand but the international markets as well. So if it's priced just 20k more than a ZMR/R15, the price is not at all justified. The CBR 250 has got specs which will easily cost you a lot more than that. Just visit the Honda worldwide website and you'll know. The only reason it might come cheap is because it is going to be manufactured here.

But good point about how the FZ sells better than the unicorn because of it's better looks, despite a slightly higher price tag.

FYKI the specs of indian version are not yet disclosed .And according to the words of HMSI people in press ,the bike will hit directly R15 and ZMR the same way the FZ has hit all 150cc bikes in india and majority of pple will run towards d head and heart turner CBR instead of head turner R15 and ZMR .

Originally posted by satan69in View Post

i really did not understand what you wanna imply here..can you be more detailed ?

imply?..read the last 4 lines

Originally posted by s_and_m View Post

About the part in bold.. what do u mean? Should they hike up the price or reduce it?

Honda are using cheaper stuff and going for as much cost cutting as possible - just to keep the price in that area - esp for India. For e.g. the Overdrive guy in the video said that the Indian version will have Continental tires instead of IRC's - to cut down the price. And it is very important for Honda to keep it in that region coz India is a very price-sensitive market. The more optimal the looks/features/performance-to-price combination is, the better it will sell here. Case in point: FZ vs Unicorn.

Also, as far as i recall, there wasnt anything spectacular in the specs which should cost a bomb (The C-ABS is optional so the base model would be decently priced I think).

For a single cyl to match a twin cyl in performance (more specifically power/speeds, if not torque), one would have to make an engineering marvel for the single cyl and employ relatively primitive engineering concepts for the twin if the cubic capacity of both the engines is to be kept the same. Correct me if I am wrong.

den tell me how does R15(150cc) beats the hell out of p220cc and ZMR-225cc .nd yes R15 is a marvel of an engine and HONDA has the biggest R&D center and investments in R&d then Yamaha and Kawasaki .(No offence here).Also the higher the engine capacity/complexity ,the tougher is the refinement process .
The cost cutting is through power cutting not cheaper parts .A honda built in china is no different den the one built in India or Japan.This is what is called Internationally appreciated Brand.

**sheelpriye** · 11-08-2010, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

FYKI the specs of indian version are not yet disclosed .

For your viewing pleasure--
(do notice the Indian flag?)

Honda Worldwide | CBR250R

Honda (Has a link directing to the 250R global)

Aren't these pointers enough to validate that specs will be the same in India as will be Australia, Canada, US of A, Brazil and other countries?

**satan69in** · 11-08-2010, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

FYKI the specs of indian version are not yet disclosed .And according to the words of HMSI people in press ,the bike will hit directly R15 and ZMR the same way the FZ has hit all 150cc bikes in india and majority of pple will run towards d head and heart turner CBR instead of head turner R15 and ZMR .

imply?..read the last 4 lines

den tell me how does R15(150cc) beats the hell out of p220cc and ZMR-225cc .nd yes R15 is a marvel of an engine and HONDA has the biggest R&D center and investments in R&d then Yamaha and Kawasaki .(No offence here).Also the higher the engine capacity/complexity ,the tougher is the refinement process .
The cost cutting is through power cutting not cheaper parts .A honda built in china is no different den the one built in India or Japan.This is what is called Internationally appreciated Brand.

the cost of materials,labour,import prices etc etc vary from place to place...so when its building in India,its going to be cheaper here...

**s_and_m** · 11-08-2010, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

den tell me how does R15(150cc) beats the hell out of p220cc and ZMR-225cc .

It does so on the corners. Not on straight lines. And is pure engineering, and it has nothing to do with cubic capacity or number of cylinders. But what is the point that u r trying to make here? Which particular point in my post do u disagree with?
BTW, R15 = 17PS, P220 = 21PS, ZMR=17.8PS. "R15 beats the hell out of..." Where is the hell beaten out? I'm sorry but what's ur point again?

nd yes R15 is a marvel of an engine and HONDA has the biggest R&D center and investments in R&d then Yamaha and Kawasaki .(No offence here).

I agree.

Also the higher the engine capacity/complexity ,the tougher is the refinement process .
The cost cutting is through power cutting not cheaper parts .A honda built in china is no different den the one built in India or Japan.This is what is called Internationally appreciated Brand.

I didnt get u thr. Please tell me how cutting power makes for lower costs. Is the bike getting developed / built in China? I thought it was Thailand. I could be wrong.
And dude, just because something is Chinese doesn't necessarily imply it's quality would be shitty. It just means it is cheaper to get it made there as compared to Japan. I believe that when it comes to Honda, quality is one thing that DOES NOT take a hit. I mean really.. they sell good stuff!

Comments in-line in bold. Also, I was saying in my previous post that one can't compare the power delivery of a twin with a single cyl of the same capacity. Again, am I wrong here?

**ironman** · 11-08-2010, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by sheelpriye View Post

For your viewing pleasure--
(do notice the Indian flag?)

Honda Worldwide | CBR250R

Honda (Has a link directing to the 250R global)

Aren't these pointers enough to validate that specs will be the same in India as will be Australia, Canada, US of A, Brazil and other countries?

.

@honda_vings: Again. The bike we are talking about is a 250cc buddy. It doesn't necessarily have to compete directly with the R15 and ZMR which have different specs. Only in terms of sales, maybe yes, but not in terms of performance. That's why i mentioned the specs and not the price as a base. Hence, the specs have the right to pull the price tag towards the higher end.

**ironman** · 11-08-2010, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

den tell me how does R15(150cc) beats the hell out of p220cc and ZMR-225cc .nd yes R15 is a marvel of an engine and HONDA has the biggest R&D center and investments in R&d then Yamaha and Kawasaki .(No offence here).Also the higher the engine capacity/complexity ,the tougher is the refinement process .
The cost cutting is through power cutting not cheaper parts .A honda built in china is no different den the one built in India or Japan.This is what is called Internationally appreciated Brand.

R15 has more technology than the P220(obviously, I'm being a little stupid there). But i doubt the R15 can beat the 'Hell' out of ZMR! They're close i terms of performance. But on the track the R15 wins.
It's not necessary that with higher capacity, the refinement process gets tougher. Take your example itself. The P220 has an engine which is decades less refined than the R15 despite the P220 having higher capacity.
Also, you don't necessarily have to compromise on power to make it cheaper. Cheaper parts can be made to bring the overall price of a product down. Again, take the P220 and the R15 as the examples. The P220 is powerful but has cheaper parts and hence costs less unlike the R15 which has more refined, and hence expensive parts but costs more than the P220. You seem to be contradicting yourself there

**shv18** · 11-08-2010, 06:14 PM

Currently a proud FZ owner, i am really impressed by the initial reports that have come out regarding CBR 250 R.

i was really leaning towards a kwacker as my next bike,but CBR seems to fit the bill of touring and having a more refined mill... this new bike will change the whole ball game in India whenever it hits the shores. however, price being the primary factor, if it is in the same range as kwacker, i am not sure how enthu the indian market would be receiving this new entrant.

**honda_vings** · 11-08-2010, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by sheelpriye View Post

For your viewing pleasure--
(do notice the Indian flag?)

Honda Worldwide | CBR250R

Honda (Has a link directing to the 250R global)

Aren't these pointers enough to validate that specs will be the same in India as will be Australia, Canada, US of A, Brazil and other countries?

Those specs are not necessarily the same that may come in indian model .Indian customers have varied needs .they need city ,tourer ,sports tool ,reliability ,cheap price all in one bike .Hence the specs cannot be our base for debate since they are not yet disclosed for indian model.

Originally posted by s_and_m View Post

Comments in-line in bold. Also, I was saying in my previous post that one can't compare the power delivery of a twin with a single cyl of the same capacity. Again, am I wrong here?

its not necessary that a twin cylinder is always better then single cylinder .It simply depends on the technologies that undergo into the engine.e.g. top speed of 150cc R15 is 150kmph and that of ninja is less then 170kmph .A 200cc single cylinder R15 can easily beat ninja 250r .Ninja definitely have two cylinder but no special engineering to squeeze all the juice out of the engine.So there is a possibility of single cylinder outperforming twin cylinder.

Originally posted by ironman View Post

.

@honda_vings: Again. The bike we are talking about is a 250cc buddy. It doesn't necessarily have to compete directly with the R15 and ZMR which have different specs. Only in terms of sales, maybe yes, but not in terms of performance. That's why i mentioned the specs and not the price as a base. Hence, the specs have the right to pull the price tag towards the higher end.

Read above for answers

Originally posted by ironman View Post

R15 has more technology than the P220(obviously, I'm being a little stupid there). But i doubt the R15 can beat the 'Hell' out of ZMR! They're close i terms of performance. But on the track the R15 wins.
It's not necessary that with higher capacity, the refinement process gets tougher. Take your example itself. The P220 has an engine which is decades less refined than the R15 despite the P220 having higher capacity.
Also, you don't necessarily have to compromise on power to make it cheaper. Cheaper parts can be made to bring the overall price of a product down. Again, take the P220 and the R15 as the examples. The P220 is powerful but has cheaper parts and hence costs less unlike the R15 which has more refined, and hence expensive parts but costs more than the P220. You seem to be contradicting yourself there

not me but u r contradicting urself .220cc of pulsar is decades less refined then 150cc of R15 .That's wht i said,the bigger the engine the lesser refined it will be using similar engineering.

**Hyperion** · 11-08-2010, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

its not necessary that a twin cylinder is always better then single cylinder .It simply depends on the technologies that undergo into the engine.e.g. top speed of 150cc R15 is 150kmph and that of ninja is less then 170kmph .A 200cc single cylinder R15 can easily beat ninja 250r .Ninja definitely have two cylinder but no special engineering to squeeze all the juice out of the engine.So there is a possibility of single cylinder outperforming twin cylinder.

A 200 cc R15 will easily do what in that case? 200 kph? And 250cc single cylinder R15? 200+ kph?

Do you know the 0-100 times of the Ninja and the R15?
Do you actually know the top whack of the Ninja?
Have you ridden either?

**riot** · 11-08-2010, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

Those specs are not necessarily the same that may come in indian model .Indian customers have varied needs .they need city ,tourer ,sports tool ,reliability ,cheap price all in one bike .Hence the specs cannot be our base for debate since they are not yet disclosed for indian model.

its not necessary that a twin cylinder is always better then single cylinder .It simply depends on the technologies that undergo into the engine.e.g. top speed of 150cc R15 is 150kmph and that of ninja is less then 170kmph .A 200cc single cylinder R15 can easily beat ninja 250r .Ninja definitely have two cylinder but no special engineering to squeeze all the juice out of the engine.So there is a possibility of single cylinder outperforming twin cylinder.

Read above for answers

not me but u r contradicting urself .220cc of pulsar is decades less refined then 150cc of R15 .That's wht i said,the bigger the engine the lesser refined it will be using similar engineering.

No offence, but Looking at all ur posts all i can say is u dont have any info regarding anything buddy. Better keep urself updated with correct information. Ur in Xbhp, here you will find a ton of threads with unlimited knowlege. Read those threads and get urself updated correctly.

As they say, half knowledge is worser than having no knowledge at all.

I hope you will take whatever i said positively.

**Binoy** · 11-08-2010, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

its not necessary that a twin cylinder is always better then single cylinder .It simply depends on the technologies that undergo into the engine.e.g. top speed of 150cc R15 is 150kmph and that of ninja is less then 170kmph .A 200cc single cylinder R15 can easily beat ninja 250r .Ninja definitely have two cylinder but no special engineering to squeeze all the juice out of the engine.So there is a possibility of single cylinder outperforming twin cylinder.

can't actually get your calculations...

and top speed of R15 is 150kmph...LOL...

if you get a 150 on the oddo of R15 in the stock form its time to replace the speedo buddy...

**satyenpoojary** · 11-08-2010, 07:36 PM

Top Speed <> Acceleration <> Power <> Performance

PS: a 200CC R15 can do 235.98KMPH and give 198KMPL..

lol
The CBR wont be a scortcher for sure! its a more relaxed mobike... let the damn bike come in the first place before pitching it against a Ninja, 220, R15, Splendour and KTM vapourware!

PS: A few posts ago, sheel quoted someone who had ridden the CBR on the track, he himself said that its a fun bike but not as agile on the tracks like the R15!

That doesnt imply anything on the state of refinement either of them has
Arent the 600s more agile than the 1000's on tracks too? Has that got anything to do with performance 'alone'? Why dont we compare a 500CC Royal Enfield with the same benchmark then on tracks?

A single cylinder 200CC r15 is a figment of imagination, and hence it can easily thrash every other bike with every other manufacturer.... lets compare reality shall we?

**nagoo** · 11-08-2010, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by riot View Post

No offence, but Looking at all ur posts all i can say is u dont have any info regarding anything buddy. Better keep urself updated with correct information. Ur in Xbhp, here you will find a ton of threads with unlimited knowlege. Read those threads and get urself updated correctly.

As they say, half knowledge is worser than having no knowledge at all.

I hope you will take whatever i said positively.

Originally posted by Binoy View Post

can't actually get your calculations...

and top speed of R15 is 150kmph...LOL...

if you get a 150 on the oddo of R15 in the stock form its time to replace the speedo buddy...

Back to the Topic Plz

On the other side ... it will be better for Honda to launch this bike ASAP .. time is money and if they wait till April .. i think other players may also jump in to the same wagon .. as honda planning.

There is strong possibility of Bajaj,TVS and to some extent even Yamaha might launch ~250CC bikes with lil more or less price range of honda by that time

**payeng** · 11-08-2010, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

den tell me how does R15(150cc) beats the hell out of p220cc and ZMR-225cc .

Only on the twisties of a race track the R15 has the edge.. due to its superior and modern chassis, suspension and liquid cooled engine. Kudos to the R15 for that.

the R15 is left behind on straights by the P220 (not sure about the ZMR).

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

Also the higher the engine capacity/complexity ,the tougher is the refinement process .

Try riding a "complex" inline - 4 cylinder engine

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

The cost cutting is through power cutting not cheaper parts .A honda built in china is no different den the one built in India or Japan. This is what is called Internationally appreciated Brand.

So which "Made in China" Honda have you ridden?

Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

its not necessary that a twin cylinder is always better then single cylinder.It simply depends on the technologies that undergo into the engine.e.g. top speed of 150cc R15 is 150kmph and that of ninja is less then 170kmph.

Try revving the single cylinder R15 to 13,000 RPM, to know the difference it and the Ninja 250R.

Who said the Top speed of the R15 is 150 Kmph and the Ninja 250R is 170 Kmph..??

A 200cc single cylinder R15 can easily beat ninja 250r .Ninja definitely have two cylinder but no special engineering to squeeze all the juice out of the engine.So there is a possibility of single cylinder outperforming twin cylinder.

"No special engineering": Try taking apart the Ninja250R to see what's it's made up of.

**honda_vings** · 11-08-2010, 08:24 PM

ok one last word guyz and lets close this mess and open new space for new interesting areas of discussion on CBR .
Well There is a limit for every engine depending on its cc.And R15 is very close to its limits while there is a significant gap between actual ninja performance and what a well-squeezed out twin-inline cylinder can actally do .

Announcement

Honda CBR250R Launched in India at 1.43 ex showroom Delhi

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