Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

[sajjt]

i have to change my BCU since it is malfunctioning. kindly read my earlier posts. yesterday i spoke to rahuldevnath, he was saying that even APE RR is prone to failures and it did fail on some xbhpians like shreeni etc.

this indicates that my earlier theory was right. APE RR is made for deisel vehicle which runs at lower RPM, whereas petrol engined bikes run at almost double RPM, this means voltage produced in bikes may be just double of what is produced in the stator of APE.

also the frequency (Hz) of voltage produced in pulsar is f=N.P/120, means 80 to 666 Hz varrying from 1200 RPM to 10000 RPM. In APE it will be maximum 333 Hz at 5000 RPM for 8 pole stator or 166 Hz for 4 pole stator.

this means not only is APE RR designed for lower input AC voltages but lower frequency also.

applying higher voltage means SCR's or thyristors in RR may reach thier breakdown region and

applying higher frequencies means SCR's or thyristors in RR may not get sufficient recovery time in each cycle of operation to function properly.

and to make the things worse we will rewind our pulsar stator in the way described in the thread, then max voltage will be doubled and it may reach 180 volts at around 9000-10000 RPM, whereas normal stock stator lighting and charging coil output is upto 90 volts.

i may be wrong, but based on the data available it seems that i am thinking in the right direction.

i found a website on internet which sells custom RR's at 49 $ but they charge 100 $ to ship to india.

guys can anyone give me wiring diagram of pulsar 150 UG4?

Dude, to be honest its all ur fault for being with a mess. We've warned u many times not to use parralel charging system but u ignored and now the end result is a total loss and left alone with a total mess.

I dont want to provoke u in a mess but thats the fact, I would've ignored ur post just bcz of the sharp postings u made last time.But after getting ur pm I just cant ignore it anymore. Afterall we all r at ur help and thats the meaning of this forum, so no hurt feelings.

First of all let me clarify one thing, APE RR is a very robust one will withstand even with a 10K rpm. Am very sure about it, even though neither of us will touch that rpm at any case except some testings. None of the RR failed if u connect it properly provided if its an OEM. Forget about SHreeni's case as its a fake Delhi make, cant give results with a duplicate one. Am running with a RR almost an year and nothing happened till date so is the case of others like Dr. as I don't remember names of the beneficiaries.

U dont need the stock RR anymore once u've the APE RR as its capable of filling ur batt very liberally.Even if ur batt is flat, u'll get the juice from the coils once u route it
thru the RR to power an HID. Believe me thats my experience with a flat batt for 3-4 days. So u'll not be left in darkness even if ur batt is dead.

Now rebuild the electricals as in the stock condition and the DC conversion except the parallel charging. THats what we follows.

Hope this will take less time to recover from the mess.

[princesirohi]

thank you very much for your reply dear.

Dude, to be honest its all ur fault for being with a mess. We've warned u many times not to use parralel charging system but u ignored and now the end result is a total loss and left alone with a total mess.


ya i remember you have warned me not to try parallel charging as nobody has done it, but i don't regret it as i have a tendency to --listen to all, study the facts and take decision on my own. i usually try a lot of things which others don't do, sometimes i succeed sometimes not. but i learn a lot of things in that process. and that is how new things/places are invented. though i m no inventer just a learner.


I dont want to provoke u in a mess but thats the fact, I would've ignored ur post just bcz of the sharp postings u made last time.But after getting ur pm I just cant ignore it anymore. Afterall we all r at ur help and thats the meaning of this forum, so no hurt feelings.



thank you very much dude. And sorry for those sharp postings, which i should not have made. but everybody looses temper sometimes. sorry for that. i can only request you to forgive and forget. and thank you very much coz i really wanted to discuss with you.



First of all let me clarify one thing, APE RR is a very robust one will withstand even with a 10K rpm. Am very sure about it, even though neither of us will touch that rpm at any case except some testings.


Actually i regularly ride my bike at 8000 RPM as 90% of my riding is on highway.


None of the RR failed if u connect it properly provided if its an OEM. Forget about SHreeni's case as its a fake Delhi make, cant give results with a duplicate one. Am running with a RR almost an year and nothing happened till date so is the case of others like Dr. as I don't remember names of the beneficiaries.


ya, his ID was Drvmtm, Just for the sake of my clarity, can you confirm that non of the OEM APE RR failed with rewounded stator as per your information?

Actually i was thinking of rewinding stator and using APE RR as you have earlier suggested. but yesterday i discussed with rahuldevnath and he said even APE RR have failed, so this doubt came in my mind. i m in a mess, i forgit shreeni's RR was not original, any other failures as far as you know?

U dont need the stock RR anymore once u've the APE RR as its capable of filling ur batt very liberally.Even if ur batt is flat, u'll get the juice from the coils once u route it
thru the RR to power an HID. Believe me thats my experience with a flat batt for 3-4 days. So u'll not be left in darkness even if ur batt is dead.

Now rebuild the electricals as in the stock condition and the DC conversion except the parallel charging. THats what we follows.

Hope this will take less time to recover from the mess.

ya lets hope so. these 4 months i was riding with HID and parallel charging, i enjoyed my HID so much, now i can't think of riding without HID, i was searching for a solution so desperately. i will be waiting for your reply anxiously.

[drvmtm]

go with oem ape rr and rewinding with a 19 gauge coil.as of the bcu,see if the console and other meters are working without the bcu or not.afaik it only controls the switch gears.if that is the case ,then just replace the switch gears with the older model switch s (DJ 201024 AND DJ201012).it should solve the problem if the bcu only controls the switches.

if not then the only way to go for circuit change to dc ug 4 systems.that will be costly.

the bcu is diff in ac and dc models.

you are forgetting one basic funda about diesel and petrol engine difference in pulsar and ape.
ape uses a 12 pole stator coil which is winded by 24 awg wire.per pole wire is no less then 15-17 feet.
in pulsar we have a 7 pole stator which we rewind with 19 awg wire with you can maxx out 12 feet per pole with great difficulty.

now you can see the more wire produces more voltage as the number of turns are more.less turns less voltage.
in a diesel engine the rpm is less so more turns per pole of the wire is there to get a desired output.
in pulsar we rpm is high hence the turns per pole of the wire is less, so its balancing there.

i found out with a properly winded coil ape OEM rr can pump out 8+ amps when on load.my coil is winded with 19 gauge,but working on a 18 gauge coil to see i can pump out more from the electrical s or not.the rr is quite robust.
if you use two rr,again this will happen

[princesirohi]

@ drvmtm: in a way your logic is also correct, provided the information you have of APE stator is correct, which i assume is correct.

i will think over it in teh weekend and probably do rewinding next week.

btw i m not going from UG3 to UG2 w.r.t. BCU and switches. i will anyway replace BCU, the question was whether i can put UG4 BCU?

now i will use the same UG3 BCU.

[drvmtm]

@ drvmtm: in a way your logic is also correct, provided the information you have of APE stator is correct, which i assume is correct.

i will think over it in teh weekend and probably do rewinding next week.

btw i m not going from UG3 to UG2 w.r.t. BCU and switches. i will anyway replace BCU, the question was whether i can put UG4 BCU?

now i will use the same UG3 BCU.

no you cant put ac bcu on dc bcu vice versa,not possible.
you cant put ape rr+coilrewinding in ug 3 models with bcu

[abhijeet080808]

and to make the things worse we will rewind our pulsar stator in the way described in the thread, then max voltage will be doubled and it may reach 180 volts at around 9000-10000 RPM, whereas normal stock stator lighting and charging coil output is upto 90 volts.

My rewinded coil gave out only about 90-100V. It is because we have just used thicker wires, not doubled the total number of windings. Regarding the frequency theory, while it may have logic, it has been practically proved to work just fine. Don't you think practical observations are more reliable then theory?

What you did in the spirit of experiment is fine, we all have had our share of failure. Now just do it the right way.

[Shreeni0403]

Good to learn on own but should also learn from others experience rather than implementing all on ourself. This is my opinion.

Anyways, I think the UG4 BCU can be used if you convert your bike to all DC. Thou am not sure. I think if u can source UG4 wiring diagram with the UG3's you will be able to conclude in a much better way.

OT- Btw if I had a Pulsar, I would remove and throw away BCU on day 1

[pavanchirmade]

+1 to what shreeni said..I too want to get rid of this moronic device. Any idea what all needs to be changed?The BCU keeps malfunctioning. This is my 2nd BCU and it has failed too!I like the digitial speedometer and that too is connected to the BCU. so what to do about that?

[Shreeni0403]

+1 to what shreeni said..I too want to get rid of this moronic device. Any idea what all needs to be changed?The BCU keeps malfunctioning. This is my 2nd BCU and it has failed too!I like the digitial speedometer and that too is connected to the BCU. so what to do about that?

Shifting to the UG2's speedo + switch gears will be piece of cake.
No clue about retaining digital speedo of Pulsar without mods.

[sajjt]

thank you very much for your reply dear.
ya i remember you have warned me not to try parallel charging as nobody has done it, but i don't regret it as i have a tendency to --listen to all, study the facts and take decision on my own. i usually try a lot of things which others don't do, sometimes i succeed sometimes not. but i learn a lot of things in that process. and that is how new things/places are invented. though i m no inventer just a learner.

ya, his ID was Drvmtm, Just for the sake of my clarity, can you confirm that non of the OEM APE RR failed with rewounded stator as per your information?

Actually i was thinking of rewinding stator and using APE RR as you have earlier suggested. but yesterday i discussed with rahuldevnath and he said even APE RR have failed, so this doubt came in my mind. i m in a mess, i forgit shreeni's RR was not original, any other failures as far as you know?

ya lets hope so. these 4 months i was riding with HID and parallel charging, i enjoyed my HID so much, now i can't think of riding without HID, i was searching for a solution so desperately. i will be waiting for your reply anxiously.

Dude there's nothing wrong in trying in a diff way and as u said may be thats how things might've invented. But I still dont understand why do u want a parallel system once u've a good charging system in hand just for a 35W HID. Certain designs are very clear and strictly followed just like a parallel charging. U cant compare with a tapping from the stock rr light out routed thru a bridge rectifier as there's no extra regulator to interfere.

I'vent come across with any case of failure of APE RR with a re-winded coil so far eventhough very little takers are here to vouch.

i forgit shreeni's RR was not original this clarifies


Yeah, Drvmtm(Dr. Vivek) one of the APE RR XBHpian whom I know, I was referring others who opted for APE RR for DC conversion.

Yes HID creates addiction U can go back to old Halo once u pampered with this magic tube even if others may curse u bcz of the glares

Why confusion? Stick to stock BCU/harness with APE RR and see the diff.

Dr. is right, u cant simply swap the BCU without wiring harness change, its like pouring diesel instead of petrol in ur bike.

go with oem ape rr and rewinding with a 19 gauge coil.as of the bcu,see if the console and other meters are working without the bcu or not.afaik it only controls the switch gears.if that is the case ,then just replace the switch gears with the older model switch s (DJ 201024 AND DJ201012).it should solve the problem if the bcu only controls the switches.

if not then the only way to go for circuit change to dc ug 4 systems.that will be costly.

the bcu is diff in ac and dc models.

you are forgetting one basic funda about diesel and petrol engine difference in pulsar and ape.
ape uses a 12 pole stator coil which is winded by 24 awg wire.per pole wire is no less then 15-17 feet.
in pulsar we have a 7 pole stator which we rewind with 19 awg wire with you can maxx out 12 feet per pole with great difficulty.

now you can see the more wire produces more voltage as the number of turns are more.less turns less voltage.
in a diesel engine the rpm is less so more turns per pole of the wire is there to get a desired output.
in pulsar we rpm is high hence the turns per pole of the wire is less, so its balancing there.

i found out with a properly winded coil ape OEM rr can pump out 8+ amps when on load.my coil is winded with 19 gauge,but working on a 18 gauge coil to see i can pump out more from the electrical s or not.the rr is quite robust.
if you use two rr,again this will happen

Oh man, u r a walking Britanica dude in these part nos.

I just love the comparison statement in stator windings. Hey from where the **** u got all these?

Fellow at SVC said that APE RR is capable of 20A but I believe that its capable of doing more than that may be atleast a 30A due to diode capacity.

[princesirohi]

i have given my stator for coil rewinding.....i will get it in 3-4 days.

no you cant put ac bcu on dc bcu vice versa,not possible.
you cant put ape rr+coilrewinding in ug 3 models with bcu

correction......i am going to do the same...APE RR + Coil rewinding in UG3 model with BCU.

and my bike was Running it like that only UG3 bike converted to DC.

right sajjit.

[drvmtm]

Oh man, u r a walking Britanica dude in these part nos.

I just love the comparison statement in stator windings. Hey from where the **** u got all these?

Fellow at SVC said that APE RR is capable of 20A but I believe that its capable of doing more than that may be atleast a 30A due to diode capacity.

hehe.sajjit.i thank you for youur praise..well i got a chance to meet and see the gem of a 3 wheller piaggio ape s electricals first hand.the service engineer was more then happy to show me every thing when he heard my credentials,a doc,a biker,a gear head,a xbhpian.yes he was amazed and we talked for hours.this guy was really good.he brought a p 220 just after few days he met me.he is trying to throw off some boringness from his life,midlife crisis you know!
see here is the picture of the stator.yes the rr is able to handle upto 30 amps but the person said if the stator kept under 15 amps @14 volt properly,it will never fail.he added,he till date never changed a rr of manufacturing defect or failure.only changes done if the system is shorted by a created prob.
also mate.i am leaning towords round headlamp unit.

Yfrog Image : yfrog.com/0azrx1rj
also looking for a good cheap low beam projector,will fit just side of it.what say mate?

[sajjt]

hehe.sajjit.i thank you for youur praise..well i got a chance to meet and see the gem of a 3 wheller piaggio ape s electricals first hand.the service engineer was more then happy to show me every thing when he heard my credentials,a doc,a biker,a gear head,a xbhpian.yes he was amazed and we talked for hours.this guy was really good.he brought a p 220 just after few days he met me.he is trying to throw off some boringness from his life,midlife crisis you know!
see here is the picture of the stator.yes the rr is able to handle upto 30 amps but the person said if the stator kept under 15 amps @14 volt properly,it will never fail.he added,he till date never changed a rr of manufacturing defect or failure.only changes done if the system is shorted by a created prob.
also mate.i am leaning towords round headlamp unit.

Yfrog Image : yfrog.com/0azrx1rj
also looking for a good cheap low beam projector,will fit just side of it.what say mate?

Nice pics, did he show the coil to get a pic of the coil guage?

Round HL is very nice looking, go for a look on the APE Truck sealed beam. Its worth to see that. Err.. what projector and HL assy side by side? Wont look good and compliment each other unless there should be some size and design similarities. Better u fix the lens below the HL assy so that it wont take much space too.

[drvmtm]

i will look out for ape seal beam as you already told me.
how about this idea.

if you watch our desi bikes closely they are having the round headlamp mounted too high.i am looking for a low slung look and will mount the headlamp low like its shown in the picture.as my bike is ug 2 ,the console is already a bit lower then ug1 and classic models.so the space between mudguard and light will decrease and cant put the projector below it,can cause less space even crashing into the mudguard.so as you alredy using spot lamps i was thinking to mount them on the side.see the pic for reference.

and about the ape s coil,yes i saw it first hand,it was winded by a 24 or 23 awg wire,soo much space left for rewinding.but forgot to take a picture.

[sajjt]

i will look out for ape seal beam as you already told me.
how about this idea.

if you watch our desi bikes closely they are having the round headlamp mounted too high.i am looking for a low slung look and will mount the headlamp low like its shown in the picture.as my bike is ug 2 ,the console is already a bit lower then ug1 and classic models.so the space between mudguard and light will decrease and cant put the projector below it,can cause less space even crashing into the mudguard.so as you alredy using spot lamps i was thinking to mount them on the side.see the pic for reference.

and about the ape s coil,yes i saw it first hand,it was winded by a 24 or 23 awg wire,soo much space left for rewinding.but forgot to take a picture.

I like the needle type LED turn lights most but in our country it wont last. Yeah twin pods r always sexy only thing is how to blend each other ie; a projector and a sealed beam parallel.

Am thinking to change my spots with some other good one just below the fairing, but need some time to calculate the fork travel depth and fabricating a bracket.