Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

[sajjt]

yes, i have done full DC conversion and coil rewinding long time back, yes i am using the harness to route the wires to ape rr. i am using blue/white wires to route the coil output to ape rr and i have checked for continuity using multimeter, it is ok. i have also checked the continuity of wires with ground, it is not short to ground. the AC output of coil is 15 to 90 V. before connecting ape rr,, the battery voltage was 10.5 after connecting the ape rr and starting the bike instantly the battery voltage was clamped down to 9.3, after switching off the bike battery voltage returned to 10.5. then i rode for 1.5 hours and battery voltage is now permanently 9.3 volts.

Ok, blue/white striped wires were meant for batt coil by stock so that part is ok else, u wont get the 90V at the blue wires right?

Once u connect the RR voltage drops to 9.XX and once u switch off the engine, it returned to 10.5V means ur RR is under suspicion.I guess its getting shorted inside. Check the RR integrity first.

I guess,1.5hrs of drive should be a day drive with less drain of battery hence its maintaining the same volt.

[princesirohi]

Ok, blue/white striped wires were meant for batt coil by stock so that part is ok else, u wont get the 90V at the blue wires right? right, so that part is OK -- i guess.

Once u connect the RR voltage drops to 9.XX and once u switch off the engine, it returned to 10.5V means ur RR is under suspicion.I guess its getting shorted inside. Check the RR integrity first. but how to check rr unit, do you know any method? and this was i guess the last remaining ape rr (of old model- with 4 wires) in pune. i purchased it from stockist. AND THIS WAS A BRAND NEW RR. what to do? r u saying, buy a new rr??

I guess,1.5hrs of drive should be a day drive with less drain of battery hence its maintaining the same volt.

yes, it was a day time ride.

• i have one more suspicion, since ape rr shows weird voltage when not connected to battery, and at the time of connection, battery voltage had dropped to 10.5 volts, can it be the case that apre rr is not detecting a battery ?? but it still doesn't explain why it clamped battery voltage to 9.xx volt.?
• is it that due to battery discharging to 10.5 volts, battery had gone into deep discharge mode and when rr unit tried to charge it, something wrong happened inside battery, and it become faulty, like maybe 2 cells get shorted in battery or something like it.??
• i will try to get my battery charged and then connect and check?
• is there a way to check if ape rr is working fine?
• what do u suggest.

[Abhijeet Bhattacharjee]

• i have one more suspicion, since ape rr shows weird voltage when not connected to battery, and at the time of connection, battery voltage had dropped to 10.5 volts, can it be the case that apre rr is not detecting a battery ?? but it still doesn't explain why it clamped battery voltage to 9.xx volt.?
• is it that due to battery discharging to 10.5 volts, battery had gone into deep discharge mode and when rr unit tried to charge it, something wrong happened inside battery, and it become faulty, like maybe 2 cells get shorted in battery or something like it.??
• i will try to get my battery charged and then connect and check?
• is there a way to check if ape rr is working fine?
• what do u suggest.

to check, you can connect it to any <100V AC supply & connect its output end to a partially discharged 12V battery, that's what you can do.

[sajjt]

• i have one more suspicion, since ape rr shows weird voltage when not connected to battery, and at the time of connection, battery voltage had dropped to 10.5 volts, can it be the case that apre rr is not detecting a battery ?? but it still doesn't explain why it clamped battery voltage to 9.xx volt.?
• is it that due to battery discharging to 10.5 volts, battery had gone into deep discharge mode and when rr unit tried to charge it, something wrong happened inside battery, and it become faulty, like maybe 2 cells get shorted in battery or something like it.??
• i will try to get my battery charged and then connect and check?
• is there a way to check if ape rr is working fine?
• what do u suggest.

RR doesn't've any memory effect like on Nicd batteries. Low voltage will not push it into a no-batt mode. I strongly believe that there should be some internal shorting in the RR hence the voltage drop.

Hey, whats the charging rate?

Yes, get ur battery fully charged and check for its voltage is holding for some time. If its self depleting then replace it first. I think u've fried the battery before DC conv with the new harness IIRC.

U can check the diodes integrity with a DMM as usual, I've seen the auto electricians used to test the RR out wires. Check for the reverse continuity I think the issue is with the rectification, as the shunting takes place there bcz the voltage is getting reduced to 9.XX irrespective of the rpms right? Another option is to get help from a fellow member who'd done the DC conv already and swap the RR many may not agree though

Last but not the least: Have u disconnected the stock RR or still with the parallel charging?

to check, you can connect it to any <100V AC supply & connect its output end to a partially discharged 12V battery, that's what you can do.

How will u get 100V AC? from a transformer? Then the RR will blow it in no time due to the shunting effect.

[Abhijeet Bhattacharjee]

How will u get 100V AC? from a transformer? Then the RR will blow it in no time due to the shunting effect.

I was thinking of a transformer... But stator output is around 100V at 6k RPM... Never-mind, sorry for having posted wrong method!!

[shoeb2015]

How will u get 100V AC? from a transformer? Then the RR will blow it in no time due to the shunting effect.[/QUOTE]

How can shunting effect can blow a RR by using transformer ?Pls throw some light.

[princesirohi]

background: as many of you are aware, my bike was running a 35w HID with DC conversion, coil rewinding and APE RR unit.

2 weeks back something bad happened and blew !! BCU, RH & LH switch, speedometer and APE RR unit.

now the problem was - i had done coil rewinding and APE RR stuff myself, but the HID installation and DC conversion was done by a mechanic in nanapeth, now this nanapeth mechanic was sceptical of my using APE RR and always use to say that it is bad and should not be done, however i was pretty convinced of the setup based on experiences of some experienced DIY guys here and based on my own knowledge.

so when suddenly this problem happened, i went to him and he checked and said that all the above mentioned things went kaput, then i went to my regular mechanic and he checked and confirmed and all these things were replaced by that HID mechanic, the system ran perfectly for a day then blew !! again. the HID mechanic said LH switch is faulty, then i went to my mechanic, he replaced switch, but nothing happened, then replaced BCU again nothing happened, then he checked the wiring thoroughly for an hour or so and came up with a wire that was cut in two somehow, joined it and everything was fine, rode it for a day happily thanking him and agian blew -- this time i first went to my regular mechanic, he checked and said BCU burnt again, again went to HID mechanic he also confirmed. i came back, depressed. both me and my regular mechanic were so depressed, he said throw away the HID and revert to original, but that was also not an option since stator is changed now. we sat and discussed till around 11 PM and decided that this time we will change BCU and APE RR and entire wiring harness, because things are getting short every now and then so its better to replace wiring also. he also offered that i pay him next month and only if it works fine, otherwise not, for which i really appreciate his own dedication to see the bike running perfectly.now the next question was since DC conversion was not done by us, so how to tackle that. on saturday fortunately i saw pavanchirmade online on fb, discussed these things in detail with him, tried to understand how it is done. a friendly chat with him boosted my morale. and on sunday, me and my mechanic replaced the wiring and BCU and now it is running perfectly again, though we couldn't get RR on sunday so now my bike is running purely on battery. i am not using HID till sunday.

now what i want to discuss is that, although in this thread you can find everything about coil rewinding and APE RR along with HID installation, the DC conversion for UG3 via BCU bypass is still not explained clearly.

pavan, the method you have suggested me has some flaws, maybe due to the fact that you have done your DC conversion long ago and have forgot a few things by now or may be your method is different but it has some shortcomings--

• in your method the battery power reaches the yellow wire through red/yellow wire of wiring harness. now the yellow wire is AC input wire of BCU, so even when ignition is off, your BCU recieves DC power continuasly through yellow wire. this is dangerous.
• if there is a continuos supply of DC voltage at yellow wire, BCU is not bypassed and starter will not work.

the correct method: we need need to give power to the yellow wire through ignition switch, so that when ignition is off, no power is going into BCU, for this connect the brown wire of ignition switch to yellow wire of BCU through a switch or relay, when this switch is off - no DC voltage is applied to BCU and starter functions properly, to switch on the headlight, switch should be toggled to ON position.

guys give your feedback.

[/LIST]
RR doesn't've any memory effect like on Nicd batteries. Low voltage will not push it into a no-batt mode. I strongly believe that there should be some internal shorting in the RR hence the voltage drop.

Hey, whats the charging rate?

Yes, get ur battery fully charged and check for its voltage is holding for some time. If its self depleting then replace it first. I think u've fried the battery before DC conv with the new harness IIRC.

U can check the diodes integrity with a DMM as usual, I've seen the auto electricians used to test the RR out wires. Check for the reverse continuity I think the issue is with the rectification, as the shunting takes place there bcz the voltage is getting reduced to 9.XX irrespective of the rpms right? Another option is to get help from a fellow member who'd done the DC conv already and swap the RR many may not agree though

Last but not the least: Have u disconnected the stock RR or still with the parallel charging?



How will u get 100V AC? from a transformer? Then the RR will blow it in no time due to the shunting effect.

no yaar, there is no parallel charging system on my bike. i dumped that idea long ago. it was just during experimentation. now its just coil rewinding and ape rr.

today, i checked the ape rr output, it was showing 0 volts output in open ckt. i.e. not connected to battery. but along with multimeter connection if i touch ape rr output wire with one hand and keep my other hand at bike ground it was showing 0.14 volts- weird isn't it. then i checked charging current and it too was zero (0 amps). so ape rr is faulty again.

but why did this happen-

• manufacturing defect ?
• because of connecting to a deeply discharged battery??

anyway, again checked the AC output of stator coil, it was ok.

then i connected the ape rr, which was there in my bike when BCU blew first time. and voila it was showing 12 to 18.xx volts in open ckt condition. i didn't checked the charging current for fear of getting it burnt due to heavy load. i have not checked this ape rr before changing it - thinking that since BCU, meter and both LH & RH switches went blew- there is no chance that rr could have survived it.

• so, is this ape rr ok ??
• if yes, then what caused BCU failure and subsequent failure of meter and switches.??

tommorrow i will first check and get my battery charged.

sajjt, what do u say?

[sajjt]

today, i checked the ape rr output, it was showing 0 volts output in open ckt. i.e. not connected to battery. but along with multimeter connection if i touch ape rr output wire with one hand and keep my other hand at bike ground it was showing 0.14 volts- weird isn't it. then i checked charging current and it too was zero (0 amps). so ape rr is faulty again.

but why did this happen-

• manufacturing defect ?
• because of connecting to a deeply discharged battery??

It could be a manufacturing defect which u can claim for a replacement very next day. They will replace it without much hesitation in normal case, provided u've'nt mentioned that its for bike modding

Haven't heard of such things like a fully depleted battery will make any issues. After all how can it harm to a RR?

anyway, again checked the AC output of stator coil, it was ok.

then i connected the ape rr, which was there in my bike when BCU blew first time. and voila it was showing 12 to 18.xx volts in open ckt condition. i didn't checked the charging current for fear of getting it burnt due to heavy load. i have not checked this ape rr before changing it - thinking that since BCU, meter and both LH & RH switches went blew- there is no chance that rr could have survived it.

• so, is this ape rr ok ??
• if yes, then what caused BCU failure and subsequent failure of meter and switches.??

tommorrow i will first check and get my battery charged.

sajjt, what do u say?

Again its under suspicion on open circuit voltages, in normal cases it won't go beyond 5-6V which shows the regulation is not correct may be this is the reason it blew most of the electricals last time.

U can cross check it by connect that RR to the battery not more than 2-3 secs once the motor is running @ 2K and check the voltage. If the voltage is steady on14V range, its fine for the time being and check for the voltages on higher rpms and current as well with the same procedure. (Do not connect the AC inputs while the motor is running, fiddle with +ve output only) If its crossing the safe level dismantle it and head for APE spares and negotiate with them for a free replacement.

How can shunting effect can blow a RR by using transformer ?Pls throw some light.

The regulator within the RR stabilizes the voltages to safe range (12-14) by shorting in a fast pace, which will excert too much of load to the secondary coils on the transformer will heat up instantly and eventually it will blew.

I was thinking of a transformer... But stator output is around 100V at 6k RPM... Never-mind, sorry for having posted wrong method!!

Don't worry, it happens at times Way to go man, u r still far behind me in troubling others

But did u notice that others updating from our wrong statements which is more beneficial than a tough jargons

[princesirohi]

[/LIST]
It could be a manufacturing defect which u can claim for a replacement very next day. They will replace it without much hesitation in normal case, provided u've'nt mentioned that its for bike modding

no, i haven't told them anything, they probably think i am some mechanic or owner of an auto rickshaw but they will not replace it coz -

• there is no warranty on electronic parts
• i have cut all the couplers of ape rr to connect it.

so i dont think i can get a replacement.



Haven't heard of such things like a fully depleted battery will make any issues. After all how can it harm to a RR?

if the battery is deeply discharged, the rr will try to charge it and draw heavy current, and in the process, if it eats more than it can chew, it will blow. afterall lower the battery voltage, more the charging current of ape rr. isn't it?


Again its under suspicion on open circuit voltages, in normal cases it won't go beyond 5-6V which shows the regulation is not correct may be this is the reason it blew most of the electricals last time.

what !! but someone told me it shows upto 18.xx volts in open ckt. dont remember who. and what is the logic in it showing only 5-6 v in open ckt. ??

one more thing- is it harmful to check the ape rr open ckt voltage??

U can cross check it by connect that RR to the battery not more than 2-3 secs once the motor is running @ 2K and check the voltage. If the voltage is steady on14V range, its fine for the time being and check for the voltages on higher rpms and current as well with the same procedure. (Do not connect the AC inputs while the motor is running, fiddle with +ve output only) If its crossing the safe level dismantle it and head for APE spares and negotiate with them for a free replacement.

couldn't get you man...dont connect the AC input to rr then how will it give output??

and does anybody have wiring diagram of ape (the new one with rr unit having 6 wires) coz the ape rr i purchased was the last piece in entire pune.

[gmagesh14]

and does anybody have wiring diagram of ape (the new one with rr unit having 6 wires) coz the ape rr i purchased was the last piece in entire pune.

Princesirohi:::
Don't consider the new APE RR additional two wires, they are used for ammeter pupose in some autos...

You need to take the APE RR's two Grey wire to two ends of the Coil , yellow wire to battery +ve & black wire to battery -ve. I think you're much clear about this.

I did this in my Suzuki GS150r and succeeded in conversion..

Just a one step,You'll surely do it and try to trouble shoot the reason for the problem.

For checking the RR's open circuit voltage I'd purchased a 230v/12v transormer and connected it to RR's Grey wires., First it showed around 1volt and then it very gradually increased to around 2.5 - 3volts... So APE RR will give wierd output when not connected to battey.

[sajjt]

there is no warranty on electronic parts
i have cut all the couplers of ape rr to connect it

Did they say so? I got a replacement once from them for one of my friends. Even the local shops will do that if ur return it without delay.

Thats obvious, no one can give u a replacement once u tamper it.

if the battery is deeply discharged, the rr will try to charge it and draw heavy current, and in the process, if it eats more than it can chew, it will blow. afterall lower the battery voltage, more the charging current of ape rr. isn't it?

Battery will receive what ever u give till it top it up risking its life span. APE RR will pump max 20A AFAIK, beyond this limit it will block the excess current. But how can a 8 pole alternator pump to blow 20A rated RR?

what !! but someone told me it shows upto 18.xx volts in open ckt. dont remember who. and what is the logic in it showing only 5-6 v in open ckt. ??

one more thing- is it harmful to check the ape rr open ckt voltage??

When I tried with open ckt, it gave weired readings like 5-6v max, I've even tried to short the terminal to the body to test the current strength, but its too weak to give a good spark.

I think it won't hurt badly. if it can, I would've gone for a couple of times to APE SVC for fresh pieces in the initial days

I guess the battery volt will trigger the regulator function in APE RR.

U can cross check it by connect that RR to the battery not more than 2-3 secs once the motor is running @ 2K and check the voltage. If the voltage is steady on14V range, its fine for the time being and check for the voltages on higher rpms and current as well with the same procedure. (Do not connect the AC inputs while the motor is running, fiddle with +ve output only) If its crossing the safe level dismantle it and head for APE spares and negotiate with them for a free replacement.

couldn't get you man...dont connect the AC input to rr then how will it give output??

There's some confusion in reading my post what I meant is, connect the AC terminals before u start the engine to avoid surge which is not advisable to fiddle with.

Hope this clarifies what I meant.

[princesirohi]

Did they say so? I got a replacement once from them for one of my friends. Even the local shops will do that if ur return it without delay.

Thats obvious, no one can give u a replacement once u tamper it.


Battery will receive what ever u give till it top it up risking its life span. APE RR will pump max 20A AFAIK, beyond this limit it will block the excess current. But how can a 8 pole alternator pump to blow 20A rated RR?

don't know, but then why did APE RR fail ?

When I tried with open ckt, it gave weired readings like 5-6v max, I've even tried to short the terminal to the body to test the current strength, but its too weak to give a good spark.

I think it won't hurt badly. if it can, I would've gone for a couple of times to APE SVC for fresh pieces in the initial days

even i had accidently shorted the RR unit output wire through ammeter to battery negative in my last RR, and till now, i suspected that - that ape rr failed because of that. and now you are saying you have also done it but ur rr didn't fail, SO WHAT IS THE REASON MY 2 APE RR'S FAILED IN LESS THAN A WEEK.???

I THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE COIL OR WHAT??

I guess the battery volt will trigger the regulator function in APE RR.



There's some confusion in reading my post what I meant is, connect the AC terminals before u start the engine to avoid surge which is not advisable to fiddle with.

Hope this clarifies what I meant.

Ya ... got it now

so what do u think is the reason for my 2 ape rr's failure... one after other??

today i got my battery charged up at a shop, so battery seems to be fine.

[sajjt]

so what do u think is the reason for my 2 ape rr's failure... one after other??

today i got my battery charged up at a shop, so battery seems to be fine.

There's no chance in wrong with coil and routing the wires from coil to RR is also good. Remaining is routing or DC through stock harness.

U r using a a new harness right? Can u give some details of the wiring from RR to electricals step by step including which wire u've chosen for routing DC to switch assy etc.

I don't've a BCU version to cross check, its better to identify the wire colour codes with someone who's done DC conv on UG3 before u go for a new RR.

[princesirohi]

There's no chance in wrong with coil and routing the wires from coil to RR is also good. Remaining is routing or DC through stock harness.

U r using a a new harness right? Can u give some details of the wiring from RR to electricals step by step including which wire u've chosen for routing DC to switch assy etc.

I don't've a BCU version to cross check, its better to identify the wire colour codes with someone who's done DC conv on UG3 before u go for a new RR.

ok, so coil seems alright even to me.

DC conversion is simple.

• ape rr output wire is connected to white wire - which goes to battery through fuse. this white wire was earlier the DC wire used to charge the battery.
• now in UG3 only headlight and pilot lamps used to run on AC. for this the BCU used to input AC through a yellow wire from old rr unit. this yellow wire is now connected to brown wire (from ignition switch) through an external switch. so instead of AC we are feeding DC to BCU headlight part. the additional switch is used to disconnect at starting so that starter can work
• thats it.

the thing is bike runs fine with all electrical equipments running fine, when ape rr is disconnected and everything runs on pure battery alone. when i connected ape rr output to white wire then ape rr failed.

[Above_All]

@ princesirohi is it possible for you to open the dead ape rr ? if so please post its pics & details what you found inside it .