Let there be Light : Bike Lighting, HID etc

[abhijitkn]

Hi

^^^^ Awesome write up bro..I loved it. and you gave very usefull information to us.Thanks,Thanks a lot for this. Even i was planning to go for a 55/60 W bulb on my karizma.So which one will be the best according to you?

Hi Aneesh,

As mentioned by Pankaj better are the variants from Philips...best Philips Extreme..but check if it is compatible with Karizma.
One more qestion I saw your post on fixing 9Ah battery in Karizma. After installing the battery did you have to make any changes to the alternator? If not is there any problem in the charging of battery? Can I install it in my Fz-S (technically feasible)?

[Aneesh@4GHz]

Hi Aneesh,

As mentioned by Pankaj better are the variants from Philips...best Philips Extreme..but check if it is compatible with Karizma.
One more qestion I saw your post on fixing 9Ah battery in Karizma. After installing the battery did you have to make any changes to the alternator? If not is there any problem in the charging of battery? Can I install it in my Fz-S (technically feasible)?

Hi sir, Guess Philips Extreme is compatible,Many are using it. Coming to the battery,I don't do any other mods,everything is stock and its clearly mentioned in the battery manual that battery needs exactly 14.20 Volts for recharging,I had checked it with the amaron dealer ,My karizma produces 14.33V,which is enough for charging the battery.Not sure whether it will fit in FZ-S,Mainly the battery is 3.2Kg and tooks up a lot space.Whcih is your current battery?Hope these helps you.

[abhijitkn]

Still in dilemma...

You can have as many as connections till your battery and alternator can support, provided you should've enough gauge wires with relays to make sure that nothing under rated. I guess now you've used one switch to drive both the fogs with relay. If the relays are rated not less than 30A surely it can support 2 ballasts too. Ballasts will hardly take 6-8A at start up and later it will come to 3-3.5A so, 30A will be more than enough to drive even 2X55W HIDs. Any good toggle switch will do as its not powering the HIDs, its just driving the relay which is hardly 2W max. In my case, am using the engine kill switch to drive the spots so no extra switch is required.

Sorry for not replying for ur PM, some how I missed, hardly I miss any of the PMs though. BTW, what was your query?

Hi Sajit, Srini & Pankaj,

Thanks for the information. But I'm not interested in installing in HIDs into Micor-De.
I need some expert opinion & guidance since I'm getting mixed information.

What I Have:
I installed 2 Micro-De Fog Lamps on Fz-s which run on 55w Halogen lamps. I've used one switch to drive both the fogs with relay. The current battery is Amco 12V 5Ah. Now since after the installation I travelled almost 50-60 kms with only Fog Lamps on. I haven't faced any issues with the ignition yet. Only that when I use the fog lamps there is very little variation in the sounding of horn. I have LED tail lamps & turn indicators.
I asked the local mechanics they said battery discharging won't be an issue. But here many told me that it will discharge the battery eventually. But no one sounding confident too many if & buts.

What I want know:
1. So if I consider that if I go on longer tours & use only the fog Lamps for say 4-5 hrs. will it drain out the battery completely?
2. How I shall avoid the discharging of the battery?
3. Can I install higher Ah battery without changing the alternator of Fz as done by Aneesh on Karizma?
4. Can the addition of regulator avoid discharging?

Hi sir,

Hi Aneesh,
No Need to call me sir..

[Aneesh@4GHz]

Hi Aneesh,No Need to call me sir..

Oops,Okies.

[sajjt]

Hi Sajit, Srini & Pankaj,

Thanks for the information. But I'm not interested in installing in HIDs into Micor-De.
I need some expert opinion & guidance since I'm getting mixed information.

What I Have:
I installed 2 Micro-De Fog Lamps on Fz-s which run on 55w Halogen lamps. I've used one switch to drive both the fogs with relay. The current battery is Amco 12V 5Ah. Now since after the installation I travelled almost 50-60 kms with only Fog Lamps on. I haven't faced any issues with the ignition yet. Only that when I use the fog lamps there is very little variation in the sounding of horn. I have LED tail lamps & turn indicators.
I asked the local mechanics they said battery discharging won't be an issue. But here many told me that it will discharge the battery eventually. But no one sounding confident too many if & buts.

What I want know:
1. So if I consider that if I go on longer tours & use only the fog Lamps for say 4-5 hrs. will it drain out the battery completely?
2. How I shall avoid the discharging of the battery?
3. Can I install higher Ah battery without changing the alternator of Fz as done by Aneesh on Karizma?
4. Can the addition of regulator avoid discharging?

Hi Abhi, (I guess thats ur pet name)

As we discussed earlier, HID will consume less power than the halos provided the comparisons are on the assumption that its a 55W halo. Halogens will take a min of 5A for each bulb consistently but once you switch to HID it will take only 3-3.5A depends on the brand you have invested. Considering the fact that your bike is having a 7AH battery it will run out in no time if the rpm levels are low. Its a fact and you have to accept it. R15 which is having a robust alternator, facing the battery issues if 2 HIDs were used on low rpms admitting that its having only 3.5AH battery.

Technically speaking you'll face battery issues but if you use the lights judiciously, it can be tackled with ease. Always use the aux lamps when the rpm levels are above 3K as this is considered to be the optimum charging level starts. I guess you need these aux while cruising on high ways where the rpms will be above the safe line and thats why you haven't faced any till now. But using HIDs instead of Halos it will ease the load on the battery bcz of its low consumption but again, if you have a habit of switching on the HIDs every now and then, it will reduce the battery backup as well as the life span of HID too.

Of course you can always swap the battery with a bigger one, if you can find some extra space for the bigger reservoir and no alterations required on chargers as the stock RR is capable of handling even a 14AH.

There's no regulator or such thing which will reduce the consumption, its purely depends on the load you are exerting on the battery in your case. The stock RR has got diodes which will take care of self discharging.

You can even consider rewinding the stator coils if the coils can take a bit more thicker gauge wire and am not sure on this idea as I haven't seen any FZ stator coils physically.

[abhijitkn]

Thanks a lot

Hi Sajit,
Thanks a lot for the reply.

Hi Abhi, (I guess thats ur pet name)
Technically speaking you'll face battery issues but if you use the lights judiciously, it can be tackled with ease. Always use the aux lamps when the rpm levels are above 3K as this is considered to be the optimum charging level starts.

Ok. I'll definitely try this. But little sceptical since I will face the fog conditions in ghats where the RPM may be low (not that low but...) & my both the fog lamps will always be on.

But using HIDs instead of Halos it will ease the load on the battery bcz of its low consumption but again, if you have a habit of switching on the HIDs every now and then, it will reduce the battery backup as well as the life span of HID too.

Ok...there goes the option of HID, since I'll be switching it on & off where my HID headlamp is not sufficient. Also after switching over to HID it will be difficult to install Halogens back in the Fog Lamps. So little risky.

Of course you can always swap the battery with a bigger one, if you can find some extra space for the bigger reservoir and no alterations required on chargers as the stock RR is capable of handling even a 14AH.

My battery is 5Ah not 7Ah. Do you think installing bigger battery (9Ah) will solve the issue, though I'm not sure if I can put it inside the battery casing.

The stock RR has got diodes which will take care of self discharging.

What RR stands for?

You can even consider rewinding the stator coils if the coils can take a bit more thicker gauge wire and am not sure on this idea as I haven't seen any FZ stator coils physically.

May be this is not a good option if the bigger battery solves the issue, since it will void the warrenty of my bike.
Can you please PM me your number so that I can discuss few things offline?

[sajjt]

I had done this 3 years back on my bike TVS Victor GLX and running a 60/55 watts bulb without any problem

3 years back I did one thing
Took round Omni/Ambassador reflector of lumax,fitted a 45/40 watts incandescant bulb of Omni Philips make from Maruti Authorized service centers
I took a Pulsar headlight dome and round headlight rim
Fitted the Omni headlight in it with clips,put the 45/40 watts bulb in it

Without any modifications to wirings,I fitted it to my bike.TVS Victor GLX/GX Apache 150/RTR has got 90 watts coil for kick start and 100-120 watts for electric start
TVS bikes coils generates 50 watts for headlights around 2300 rpm according to technical specifications of master ignition the OEM suppliers of magneto and coils for TVS

Hence when I tested this 45/40 watts bulb it was amazingly bright that a 35/35 watts halogen bulb plus the reflector for Omni is damn good.I think that even if a 35/35 watts bulb will give amazing light with Ambassador/Omni/Mahindra Jeep reflectors

In the meantime I contacted a person named Shrikant Chavan in Pune who fitted a Bajaj scooter regulator of 60 watts to run a 60/55 watts halogen bulb

Basically TVS alternator generates 50 watts for headlight but the regulator/Rectifier unit cuts off wattage above 35 watts to the bulb
So according to Shrikant,what he did was he disconnected the wires which were going from rectifier to the headlight.
He added the scooter regulator of 60 W rating in between alternator and the wires connecting the bulb.
This scooter regulator is nothing but is a capacitor based device which gets charged and provides current to the bulb and since its rating is high,I can use a 60/55 watts bulb
Also a LML regulator of 96 watts can be fitted if I want a 100/90 bulb but since my coil generates 50 watts for headlight hence i decided not to go for 96 W regulator since it will put lot of load on my other electrical system and my battery is just 2.5 AH and there is no space for big battery like 5 AH

In Maruti Omni round headlight reflector,One can put a H4 P45T style halogen bulb and I got one Philips 60/55 watts premium bulb(Philips claim to give 30% extra light with this bulb)
If you want to go for the new H4 P43t Bulb,instead of maruti Omni you can go for the new Bullet classic 350/500 headlight,remove the reflector from the assembly and fit it to the Pulsar headlight rim
By doing this you can go for Philips Xtreme Power which gives 80% bright light as compared to mormal 60/55 watts bulb.

But my suggestion is that in 60/55 watts bulb dont go for Osram Nightbreaker bulb though it claims to give 90% bright light 10% more than Philips Xtreme power.It is waste of money.It costs 900 rupees plus you will not be able to see roads properly in rainy nights.
Philips Xtreme Power scores over nightbreaker here

HENCE I DONT NEED A HID.It is costly plus battery consuming plus it is totally illegal to use it directly in headlight.You need a projector like P220 for a HID.

But I have sticked to Philips/Bosch 60/55 watts bulb and sometimes xtreme power.Basically light from these bulbs are equivalent to sunlight around evening time(Say around 4:00 pm to 5:30 pm).This type of light is pleasant for night riding.

Please note that this is only for Kick Start TVS bikes only.Not for self start bikes of any make.

So if you have a older TVS bike having incandescant bulb, you can go for a 45/40 watts halogen bulb from Halonix(Ask for Caliber/Bullet 45/40 Halogen bulb) without any modification.
First check your bulb and check this halogen bulb and check whether it fits properly.
For rest other TVS bikes,you can go for Omni headlight fitting in pulsar round dome and 45/40 watts halonix P45T H4 bulb
For 60/55 watts you need to do scooter regulator kind of work
But this is only for TVS bikes only because so far I know Honda,Hero Honda,Suzuki,Yamaha dont provide that much powerful alternator coil for kick start bikes.

Phew........... What a lo......ng write up I got a feeling of being overtaken

Nice work mate and true to any TVS steeds as they were always been strong in electricals since of TVS Suzuki. I used to add a 55W aux lamp on the handle bar when we go for touring and it never affects the headlamp performance in higher rpms.

Omni/Gysy or Amby domes are the favorite assys for the HL mods as this with a good 55W halo will be a perfect combo which can even compete with a modern MFR FF HLs.

One moment, you can even go for a 55W without any modifications as the stator coils are stronger to support it. And there's nothing to do with a regulator as the regulator just shunts by shorting when the voltage rises above 14V across the coils. Current limiting is for the battery's health and there's nothing to do with the lighting current. AFIAK. So I dont think that there's a need of RR swap. I never used any for the extra 55W Aux lamp for my old Samurai and it was glowing like a plasma tube higher rpms along with the head lamp. I've even upgraded my battery from 2.5AH to 5AH when I've upgraded my horns to Stebel Air horns and it was charging like charm with the stock condition.

The reason is that Nightbreaker gives white light just like a HID and since it is white in color hence you have problem of water droplets shining and causing glare.
Basically yellowish white color or light is useful for visibility in fog and rainy conditions.White light is totally useless for night driving

Its not the problem with glares from water droplets, blame it on the CT, ONB has got a white tinge approx 6K which is not ideal for bad weather like fogs and rains. Always choose CTs between 4-4.4 ( near to daylight and this is why the standard headlamps are coming in this CT)and max 5K is the max useable range in all weathers but not adequate for fogs and rains where an aux lamp is highly recommended.

Yellow bulbs are typically used as an "all weather" bulb. The yellow/amber color makes it significantly easier for on-coming traffic to see you in bad weather. The color is toward the warmer end of the visible light spectrum and has a longer wavelength which does not diffract as much as cooler colors therefore causing less eye strain. I used to swap my headlamp bulbs with an "all weather bulb" which has got a yellow tinge during rainy seasons before I switched to HID.

White light is good for normal weather where you will get more visibility, can see the sign boards and other boards very much clearly on this CT.

Just do one experiment
In a dark room(Completely dark) place a black color object which is significant in size.First put a yellow light(night lamp) and try to visualize that black object in the room with a yellow light.You will find that your eyes are not strained.
Secondly just take a white light LED torch which gives light almost similar color like a HID but very low wattage.Try to visualize that black color object.
I bet that the black object will appear whitish in color and you will have problems in visualizing that object and it will cause too much strain on your eyes

So just imagine that you are travelling on a dark/poor illuminated road and a person wearing all black/any animal like bufallo comes in between of road,You will have difficulties in visualizing that with a HID.
Plus our roads are black in color hence inspite of too much light from HID,you will not be able to visualize potholes on road.I have not used a HID but I am making some conclusions based on my experiments in dark room.

Maybe HID users can tell more about their experiences during night time riding.

Nice thought but I would say the light sources have to be in identical wattage else the comparo will not give a balanced result. Luminance of a night lamp and LED are not comparable, so consider with the same lum light source to do this.

Well, using HID with the right kind of CT is a pleasure to ride with but most of the cases many are not even heard of the CT factor and will eventually falling into the sugar coated words of the accessory shop owner and go for the 6K CT just for the bling factor by compromising the vital role of the head lamp ie; visibility= safety.

Its a fact that there no head lamp bulb which will offer an all weather effect as of today. Each head lamp is designed to perform a specific time of usage, so it will be either for normal weather or for exteme weather conditions or even just for bling factors like the CTs from 7-12K. And thats why the manufacturers have classifieds bulbs into head lamps and auxiliary lamps.

Whereas with a normal 60/55 watts bulb due to to max yellow light,Road visibility is very good and in Ghat areas during night time,I can even visualize areas from 500 meters to 1 kms(in case of Philips Xtreme power).
I have rode my bike many times in Tamhini Ghat,Varandha Ghat,Khandala Ghat,Mahabaleshwar Ghat and almost every Ghat in Sahyadris and since I have 60/55 watts my most of driving in these areas was around 10 pm during night time.No problem with this light anytime.I have travelled in these ghats many times during night and it gives amazing illumination almost twice to that of a P-220 projector lamp.I have checked it with my friends P-220 hence telling you.

Dude, P220 is also using the same rated bulb which is also 55W and its got better optics, and there by giving more visibility than the conventional head lamp assys. Projectors will offer better beam spread in a very controlled manner through the projector lens whereas on your bike its scattering all over and hence the feeling of outrun. I guess this is the reason you have exaggerated a bit on the output of your ride as its a fact that it cant be over performed by a puny 60W alternator against a meaty 200W power house. Else, how about the high beam comparison of these two?

[luvurbike]

Hey guys I have a query.... If I install 55w HID kit (including 55w ballast) and then after sometime I switch to 35w HID, do I have to change ballast also??
In short, will a 55w ballast be good to use with 35w HID bulb???

[sajjt]

Hi Sajit,
Thanks a lot for the reply.

Ok. I'll definitely try this. But little sceptical since I will face the fog conditions in ghats where the RPM may be low (not that low but...) & my both the fog lamps will always be on.

You got a 5AH battery, so the chances of frying the battery are high on using 2X55W lamps. To be precise, you've got a under size battery to take the load.

Here's my calc:

You've got HID - 35W
Aux Lamp 55X2
Console+Tail and others will come approx=20W
So the total load will be 35+110+20=165W and all these have to drive from a puny 5AH battery

165W/12V=13.75A/hr, so ideal battery size you will require is more than 14AH battery, lets say 20AH as a safe limit. No, am not trying to persuade to change the battery to 20AH, but this is the load you are exerting on your small battery Expecting too much from a puny battery

Moral: Use the lights judiciously according to the demand and do not overload the battery. Consider reducing it to one so that you'll get more back than now.

I hope now you've got an idea what I meant earlier.

Ok...there goes the option of HID, since I'll be switching it on & off where my HID headlamp is not sufficient. Also after switching over to HID it will be difficult to install Halogens back in the Fog Lamps. So little risky.

My battery is 5Ah not 7Ah. Do you think installing bigger battery (9Ah) will solve the issue, though I'm not sure if I can put it inside the battery casing.

Putting 3 HIDs on a 5AH battery is beyond imagination, thank God you've dropped the idea

I guess there's very limited scope for a battery upgrade.

What RR stands for?

RR means regulator rectifier unit which controls the voltage within the safe limits ie; 14.5V max and then it rectifies it to DC to charge the battery as the battery will take only DC.

May be this is not a good option if the bigger battery solves the issue, since it will void the warrenty of my bike.
Can you please PM me your number so that I can discuss few things offline?

Its just a suggestion and you should not tamper the warranty at any cost as it may cost a bomb if some thing turns out wrong.

YOu've got a PM.

[abhijeet080808]

165W/12V=13.75A/hr, so ideal battery size you will require is more than 14AH battery, lets say 20AH as a safe limit. No, am not trying to persuade to change the battery to 20AH, but this is the load you are exerting on your small battery Expecting too much from a puny battery

I guess its more of a problem with the stator coil itself. Even if he gets a higher capacity battery, it will only extend the range a bit more! At the end, this is not a sustainable solution.

[abhijitkn]

Little Correction

Hi Sajit,

Little correction I'm not going to use HID when I'm going to operate the Fog Lamps. I switch off the HID & use Fog Lamp only.

You got a 5AH battery, so the chances of frying the battery are high on using 2X55W lamps. To be precise, you've got a under size battery to take the load.
Here's my calc:
You've got HID - 35W
Aux Lamp 55X2
Console+Tail and others will come approx=20W
So the total load will be 35+110+20=165W and all these have to drive from a puny 5AH battery

So it becomes less than 130W since I have LED tail lamp & indicators. I know it is not the best but saving of odd 40W will be better?

165W/12V=13.75A/hr, so ideal battery size you will require is more than 14AH battery, lets say 20AH as a safe limit. No, am not trying to persuade to change the battery to 20AH, but this is the load you are exerting on your small battery Expecting too much from a puny battery

Again, then it will become 10.8Ah or less than that.

Moral: Use the lights judiciously according to the demand and do not overload the battery. Consider reducing it to one so that you'll get more back than now.
I hope now you've got an idea what I meant earlier.

Reducing to one may not serve the purpose since it has tempered glass & if use only one then it might not serve the purpose. Anyway I'll work on your suggestion of RPM this week end drive & see. Yep I'm not using fog lamps when there is sufficient light available or when the HID headlamp is enough, I' use them only when it is difficult to see with headlamp.

Putting 3 HIDs on a 5AH battery is beyond imagination, thank God you've dropped the idea
I guess there's very limited scope for a battery upgrade.

That is obvious. But again I'm not going to operate the HID Headlamp when I'm going to use Fog Lamps. But anyway installing HIDs in fog lamps is out of question, at least for now.

RR means regulator rectifier unit which controls the voltage within the safe limits ie; 14.5V max and then it rectifies it to DC to charge the battery as the battery will take only DC.

Thanks will discuss in detail...

YOu've got a PM.

Thanks you'll have a call tonight.

[BikerKid]

http://youtu.be/OJ-5JumrMzU

found this nice video showing hid's light colour at diff temp

[sajjt]

I guess its more of a problem with the stator coil itself. Even if he gets a higher capacity battery, it will only extend the range a bit more! At the end, this is not a sustainable solution.

Hi Abhi, long time

Currently he's running with a 5AH battery with this load, so the charging rates should be higher to take care of frying the battery, so I guess there's a scope for battery upgradation to 9AH if there is space and it will definitely give more back than now.That should be almost double of the present backup. What say? But finding extra slot for a 9AH will be a pain as it may affect the looks badly.

[NANOtechnology]

Saj, you should be given a reward or something dude.

what would newbies like me would have done, if legends like you, and others didn't help us !!

[sajjt]

Saj, you should be given a reward or something dude.

what would newbies like me would have done, if legends like you, and others didn't help us !!

Hi Bro,

Here's my bank A/c # XXXXXXXXX for the reward.

Am sure then you'd've done it earlier as you cant sit tight once some thing in ur mind.

Itching for another mod?