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Re: KTM 200 Duke
hi, Guys, anyone taken a bike in PUNE without the police verification document?
hi, Guys, anyone taken a bike in PUNE without the police verification document?
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
Same here bro. Tried some Stunts and ended up falling. My handle bar got misaligned but not much noticeable. I think both 390 @ 200 handle bars are same. Just the Bar ends are extra in that. That you can add by your own. I will post an update today once I go to the svc center.Originally posted by Xzibit Roll View PostHad a small accident within two months from the first one.
Somehow the rear tire slipped pretty bad on an unused railway track and I fell. The handling seems off now because the handlebar is bent. So my question is- can I get 390's handlebar fitted on my 200?
The bar end sliders of the 390 would then fit too and protect the levers and the grips too in future.
Sent from my GT-S7562 using xBhp Connect mobile appKTM Lover,
ZakComment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
Umm, guys, is this aforementioned FFE street legal? Joel?Last edited by dishayu; 09-25-2013, 05:17 PM.Bajaj Pulsar 150 : 2004-2005
Honda Dio : 2005-2012
KTM 200 Duke : 2012-
Aprilia RSV4 APRC ABS : 2014-Comment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
The freeflow exhaust is legal only if:
1. You do not remove the catalytic converter
2. Do not cross legal noise limits
Even if you do adhere to the above, the legality is subject to the subjectivity of the police, because they are usually not aware of the legality and catch you if the bike/car makes more noise than it normally would.Comment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
I inquired about the putting the bar end sliders on 200's handlebar during my last visit to svc a few days back. I was told that they can not be put directly and the whole handlebar needs to be replaced. Wasn't sure if this was correct so asked here. BTW which stuntOriginally posted by Syed Zakir Ahamed View Post
were you trying to do?
Sent from my GT-S7562 using xBhp Connect mobile appComment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
No need of changing the entire Handle bar. They just need to make a hole in the Grip.Originally posted by Xzibit Roll View PostI inquired about the putting the bar end sliders on 200's handlebar during my last visit to svc a few days back. I was told that they can not be put directly and the whole handlebar needs to be replaced. Wasn't sure if this was correct so asked here. BTW which stunt were you trying to do?
Sent from my GT-S7562 using xBhp Connect mobile app
Checkout this video.
BTW, I tried wheelie. I crashed bcoz I didn't noticed the parked car. To avoid hitting it, I turned my bike which made me to loose balance.
KTM Lover,
ZakComment
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CONTROL YOUR RIGHT WRIST AS YOU HAVE MILES TO GO BEFORE YOU SLEEP..Comment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
I see, so what is the legal noise limit for the bikes anyway ? and how to check it when u get a FFE installed. There is no shortage of extremely noisy stuff on the road in India.. how does it make sense from the Government's pov to target our lovely bikes that with the FFE make slightly more noise than they do in stock form. That's unfair u know.Originally posted by lonewolf121 View PostComment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
Hi Chethan, I got RD piggy back ECU installed on my bike yesterday. Right now I am using 43 teeth sprocket+RD piggy back ECU. I did 40 kms since then both in city traffic and open highways. My initial impression is bottom end and mid range is very strong. i.e. upto 100-105, after that progress was slow compared to the stock Duke.
It was evident that RD is tuned for city riding. It is tuned for rideability in the city.
What is your view on this? Is it possible to create a map that would retain the bottom end and mid range of the stock but bump up the top end. Is it possible for you to create or get such map created so that we can try here?
The rev limiter seems to have been moved up from 10500 rpm, some where near 11000 rpm. Awaiting your reply.Comment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
Well, here is a link to ministry of environment and forests' website: Specific InformationOriginally posted by broken87 View Post
And as for the measuring of sound when putting in the FFE, nobody has ever done it i think. As for the government and its mysterious ways of working: The less spoken about it the better. If you go for a FFE, keep a keen eye out for "mama" log and upshift and lower throttle before you get into their hearing range.Comment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
Vbox is the most accurate way to test the 0-60, 0-100 figs this is what we use to test our cars. Arguably the most accurate data logger. Waiting to set up a cig lighter on my duke to set up the vbox to be able to test this on my bike will be doing this once i finalize my tune and will let the results speakOriginally posted by splus View Post
About the wire removal i ll send you a youtube video on how to remove it trust me its easy... Just need to find time to hold a cam and record it while i remove the wires.Originally posted by splus View Post@Chethan Shivakumar - I tried to take out that small speed limiter blue-white wire out of the socket, but it's a nightmare. No problems in removing a socket out, after few tries it's an easy job, just couple of seconds. But to remove individual wires is really, really difficult. I haven't managed to do it, and instead only ended up with my blinkers not working any more. It's just some loose contact somewhere, which I'll fix, but it's a hassle nevertheless.
I'm tempted to just cut the blue-white wire. What did you say was the negative effect of it? That the mileage calculation doesn't work any more? Is that all?
What about the second blue-white wire, would it be better to remove it as well, and leave only the wires for headlight and blinkers?
Congratulations for the RD ECU piggyback! It's great you're doing a lot of tests and making a perfect map!
I visited RD last Dec when they were supposed to launch their piggyback (I was waiting for it for months), but their map still wasn't ready. Additionally, their map was based on the old KTM ECU map, which worked badly with my new KTM ECU map (this probably explains the varying experiences with RD with different Dukes). And their map was only boosting the top end.
So I had a talk with them, Duke is not a race bike that needs only a strong top end, but a street bike where we need mostly strong lows and mids. The stock top end is strong anyway. So we started to create a map together there and then, all in one afternoon. I ended up doing some 5 test runs with experimental maps, and came to a map which had much stronger mids with very good top end up to 12,800 rpm. At the end it was an OK map, but the lows were still low. I asked the RD guy to try to increase the lows as much as possible, but then the revs got jerky with lows only slightly stronger.
The RD guy said it was difficult/impossible to boost the lows any more because the piggyback ECU gets the signal from the stock ECU, which gives lower power signals in bottom end. The way the piggyback ECU works is it only modifies the signals it gets from the main ECU. So, the ECU is like a prism that comes before the piggyback ECU unit. If the power signal that ECU gives is too low then the piggyback ECU can't boost the signal too much.
What piggyback ECU unit is doing is basically modifying the ECU power curve. You can't create a whole new power delivery curve as you can do in a stand alone ECU, but it only modify the power curve of the main ECU.
That's why the same piggyback map won't work the same with different ECU maps. (BTW, I'd be REALLY curious to check the Kiirus ECU with RD piggyback attached and an appropriate RD map, that would have much stronger lows and mids!)
That's one thing that made me reconsider my decision (I was going to go for an RD over the Kiirus initially) - ECU on its own can be mapped to have a perfect map, whatever you wish. A piggyback has to modify the existing main ECU map (and if it's a stock KTM ECU map then it has low power in bottom end, so it can't increase it much).
RD guys, while being a really nice guys, seemed more interested in cars than bikes, and preferred to only sell their piggyback ECU without really developing any maps for it. The piggyback ECU is a great device with total of 4 maps and possibility to shift between them easily according to a need, but without a proper map it's useless.
And I wasn't really willing to hook the piggyback to a computer and start developing maps myself...
But Chethan, you're doing a great service to all potential RD buyers by developing a perfect map for RD piggyback unit!!! IF you're willing to share your map(s)...
I will go to Bangalore and Goa in November. Chethan, if you're OK we could meet up then and test our bikes then. And even test the combination of Kiirus ECU together with RD piggyback...
Chethan, some time ago you said you preferred the 40T sprocket over 42T or 43T. Right now, you seem to be in favour of 42T.
Can you please explain why?
I should go to Pondy in next several days or beginning of next week, and I was thinking of changing the sprocket to either 40T or 42T.
I have tried only 43T, but it's easy to notice that 43T is too short, especially for my Kiirus ECU. I'm pretty sure the acceleration is slower with 43T than with 42T. It's becoming little irritating to see the revs go up very fast, but not the speed. But not really sure if the acceleration would be faster with 40T over 42T... On stock Duke 42T would most probably have faster acceleration. But not sure about 40T vs 42T on Kiirus/RD or FFE Duke.
That's why I'm still thinking whether to put the 40T. If not then for sure I'll go for 42T. 41T would probably be the best, but not sure it's available...
Buddy you have answered your question in your post
1. Chethan, some time ago you said you preferred the 40T sprocket over 42T or 43T. Right now, you seem to be in favour of 42T.
Can you please explain why?
Ans in your post: Duke is not a race bike that needs only a strong top end, but a street bike where we need mostly strong lows and mids.
This is the reason i said 42T as 43T really not required as it kills the fun faster and 40T spoils the duke in city characteristics. I am chasing the same goal as your's, that is why i tuning my bike to do a really quick 120 and reach 140 that's enough for me not looking at crazy high top speeds like 160-165 as i dont have the roads nor am i willing to risk my life with these Indian roads and MRF tyres. IF i had the D390 in hand that's a different ball game all together its one of the safest bike to try high speeds with the best in class ABS system and glue like Metz tyres.
About the piggy back your almost spot on its hard to work your way out like a remap that's exactly what i said in my post earlier i am yet to find a guy who can remap the ECU to my liking not to the global liking. Not saying Kiirus remap is not to my liking I simply didnt chose it as i had no option to get what i want or chose my numbers. A piggy back works on varying the numbers(voltage signals for the stock ECU) and making the ECU feel its running rich or lean and shifting to a different sub map within the base map than the prescribed map for that load point. For example: Lets say i make changes in the 3-5k RPM range to make the ECU run a little rich and in the stock map its a little leaner. So the ECU gets a signal that the bike is running leaner than the stock so pumps more gas and there by the map is shifted to what was supposed to be for a 5-6K RPM. This is not exactly how it happens but just trying to explain stuff here. Its hard to explain this logic you get a hang of it when you start tuning.
The reason at least i am unable to get more out on the low end 500 - 2.5k RPM is i have a feeling the stock map is so aggressive in this area that the piggy back can do very little about changing this the more you change the more slow it feels than stock this is my observation. I just have to try leaning it out and advancing the ignition and see how it acts. This is a risky affair without a wideband o2 kit as your not sure if your running too lean and ending up getting a knocking noise.
I wont say RD ECU's are the best in the market but its was the easy access for me to test and see hence chose it. Any day i will opt for a remap than piggy back. But wait there is a catch to this unless you know exactly what your doing remap will be slower than stock reason its not just the base map that matters its the sub map that requires a lot of logic n permutation and combination to be applied and tested with a wideband o2 sensor to get where your leaning and running rich which means a lot of testing, time and gas bills or Dyno bills. So its relatively a safe bet to play with a piggy back coz your stock ECU is still in place to take care of those submaps and you really dont have to worry about blowing up your valves.
Tuning as such is a very tempting and interesting part makes you feel to try a new map in the middle of the night. There are so many days i have just got an instant idea on a map and taken the bike out for a spin at 12-2AM in the morning :P
The Stock ECU gets signals from the piggy back its not the otherway like you mentioned. The signal is tweaked in the piggy back and sent to the ECU to beleive those numbers and think its coming from the sensors.
Few easier things you can try with the stock ECU with no RD ECU, no remap is
* Adding an extra pressure plate to the clutch unit and stronger tension springs. This should boost your initials and power across all power bands atleast by 5-10% is my guess haven't got the time to try this as we can't get spares out of the SVC. And my work is getting really taxing with a lot of deadlines in place for the year end.
* A perfectly designed FFE will definitely boost your entire power band capabilities but i don't like the harsh noise of those
Nov sure buddy don't be surprised if you see me with the D390 by then
Congrats on your RD ECU... hmmm i dont know what map is in your ECU if you can share the image of your fuel trim and ignition trim i ll be able to say why your top end is kinda choking. The main reason could be by what your saying is the ignition is way too advanced around 30's and fueling is below 25. So in RD piggy back 25 is the base stock numbers in both fueling and ignition. when ur at 100- 105 i am assuming your in the range of 7-9k RPM so try to progressively change the numbers from 5k RPM to 26-27 your should feel your bike revving up much quicker without any choking effect. And buddy try not to run too lean on top ends coz your at a risk of losing your head gasket or piston ring top crown. Running rich doesn't harm that much but running lean without proper datalog of AFR numbers from a wideband will get you in a lot of trouble.Originally posted by chinmayakar View Post
@NY:17 and @chinmayakar Here is one of my map which i felt is good for city in Bangalore sea level. Take into consideration that your in Mumbai and close to sea level and might need some alteration in the fueling based on what you feel.
This map is used by me for a good 200 odd kms in city and felt has a beefy mid range slightly better low and rev happy top end than stock you should be able to do 145-150 with ease in Mumbai due to low sea level.. i was able to do 142kph with a lot of wind drag and higher sea level in Bangalore. And thrash many stock D200 numerous times in city. Do feel free to drop me a PM or drop your cell number in case you want help on these numbers. Keep your rev limiter to 12k RPM launch rpm at 1500. Another note please don't try to play with the ignition numbers too much either keep it the way i have kept or stock 25 for this map. Its always advisable to start with fueling numbers only and not touch the ignition numbers if your not aware of how it impacts.
Dont know if i had shared my bike pic here so here it is.
Last edited by Chethan Shivakumar; 09-27-2013, 02:56 AM.Cheers,
ChethanComment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
Best stickering job I have seen so far on a Duke. Thats a nice Vtec in the background. Thanks for the map. Will try it out.Comment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
Thanks buddy !!! yea try the map and let me know once u load the map to the RD let the bike ideal for a couple of mins then take it for a slow spin in moderate riding style then load it this just that the ECU copes to the changes you put in and also during your moderate riding style itself you ll be able to judge how your bike is doing.. IF in case you feel the fueling is rich try to reduce the numbers in which ever RPM range you feel so...Originally posted by chinmayakar View PostCheers,
ChethanComment
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Re: KTM 200 Duke
Chethan, we got to test RD piggy back ECU today again. Nilesh is The Tuner in our Team and Abhay is the Test Rider (Our Stig).
Jokes apart, Nilesh worked on the Fuelling and Timing parameters in the RD map, and it turned out to be very good. Nilesh, please share your experience here. The RD piggy back ecu is installed on Amit's bike with 42 teeth sprocket.
After tuning the parameters Abhay, Anish and Me had drag couple of times. Anish was riding Amit's bike with RD ECU, while Abhay's bike was installed with Kiirus ECU + FFE.
Nilesh did an impressive job due to which Amits bike was able to beat Abhays bike during all the runs. Needless to say I was last all the time on a stock bike with 43 teeth sprocket.
We shall continue testing and update this thread. Nilesh, Abhay, Anish, Amit please chip in, in case I missed anything.Comment
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