Friends
The reason for such detailed response about the engine was to make matters some what clear to guys who want to venture into such things.
The thing which i want to stress here is if anyone does go for such engine modifications ,please bear in mind ..
The easiest thing would have been to fit the RTR 180's bore kit as its a direct fit for all fiero derivative engines(except rtr 160) albeit with slight modification to the combustion chamber.
I am no expert/tuner so yes i have taken a chance as i am trusting the lathe guy on the quality of the sleeve.You have an option as to choosing the piston and rings ,their brand that is.But the sleeve's choice is with the lathe guy.
If you opt for a bore kit ,then also it would be taking a chance ,because a perfect bore and piston kit is called a "FREAK KIT" . Obviously for a reason ,they are very rare.The not so good bore kits end up needing a re bore as early as 5000 kms.
Most of the time a re-bore when done properly to the original sleeve is much much better than replacing the bore with a bore kit.
I am sure you guys know very well as to how showrooms conn us .They always assume we know nothing and replace the whole damn thing .The head internals ,cam chain etc along with the bore kit.Then they bill us for 10,000 Rs.It has happened to a lot of xbhpians .

Thanks Anand for the information you have provided. It really helps prospect riders to understand what all mods they need to carry out on the engine to make it more powerful.

Though I would stick to the stock engine setup . Only mod I am planning is a Pulsar disc setup upfront & convert the bike to Full DC. Both possible only after rains


Any help on my issue of battery not charging when bike running at idle rpm.


Vishal

i know what's wrong...
what you have is a 5 amp battery, right??
since you have never done coil re-winding ever, your stock coil is made to pump up a 2.5 amp battery...
you are currently using the same setup to charge a 5 amp, so its not getting enough charge, as you don't use your auxiliary lamp now, so your current electricals acquire more current, hence battery is being used more...

less charge and more usage is making all these problems, honestly speaking your lucky to be on ac setup, the day you switch to dc, these revving cannot make your horn louder....
all you'll get is a dead battery in 2 days (personal experience)

the bad part is..
if you do rewind now, your bike won't increase its amps, it will just increase wattage, as more amps produced will be suppressed by your stock rr unit as it suppresses to 2.5 amps no matter you pump 16 amps into it...

all you can do now is
1
either swap to 2.5 amp batt and be happy with its performance

2
get your coil re-winded with rr unit changed...
so that battery gets enough juice as required...

everyone knows that the 1 part is pointless, and also you want to swap for dc, so its a good time to do so....

I've tested the stock rr and the ape rr with a re-winded coil many times with a multimeter, if you rewind you HAVE to change rr in order to charge the battery more....
or else amps pumping in the batt will never increase 2.5

ape rr now gives me 7 amps at higher revs...
however I'm still struggling with battery issues even with a 9 amp + Re winded coil + rr unit swap, thanks to the halo/hid combo in DC ...
if i use both together, i struggle to keep battery healthy...

i will get my coil re-winded again to at-least provide 15 amps at higher revs and 9 amps at normal rpms...
now i'm getting 3.5 to 4 amps at normal amps and 7-8 at higher
i hope you got my point...

i can help you when you want to get this done, just give me a call...
its not that difficult...



that's a fair deal..
quite reasonable....
good work my friend....

any engine breaking issues so far ??

AFAIK when Fiero was launched, it had 2 variants Kick start(KS) & Electric start(ES). The ES model had a 5amp battery as stock and KS 2.5amp. I had changed the regulator twice, but Atul scooters never asked me whether I have a ES or KS bike, so I thought it was the same for both (Will need to enquire on this). Also this problem has started lately, say from a week. I am using the 5amps from last 1.5yrs & at that time also the Aux lamp usage was quite low. So I am a little confused over here

So what do you suggest mate.

1) Should I convert my bike to full DC?
2) I am only planning to use a 55/60w bulb thats it & aux lamp sometimes
3) Say I am on a trip and middle of no where the battery dies , will I still be able to ride and reach the nearest village?
4) Rewind the coil+5amp battery+Ape rr. No DC setup. Will this setup help me use a 55/60w on AC??

I know I am asking so many stupid questions.The next time you meet me, you are surely gonna kill me But your answers will give me a better idea on what to do and what not.

Thanks for answering all my queries.


Vishal

relax dude..
i am here to help as you helped me...

see the funda of ape rr is for DC ONLY
is you want to use ac only or say ac + dc, then ape rr is pointless as it converts every current to dc ...

if you use say a 55/60 bulb
halogen of course...

there are 2 things you need to know...

initially what happens is, that when you are on dc, your bike will pull entire power from battery only....

so it will glow to full intensity, even at startup...
if your bike's engine is off and then too you switch on the headlight the bulb again would glow to full intensity...

i have a 55w bulb halo in DC as high beam, it glows at full intensity whenever lighted, no matter if the engine of off or on...
what i know from readings is that it pulls say at least 4-5 amps from battery...

i think you should know this first...
amps means current, not voltage...

a 12 volt bulb can glow at 2 amps, or 5 amps or 7 amps... or 9 amps too...

it will pull only 12 volts, but ampere matters
a 35w bulb pulls 3 amps...
a 100w bulb might pull 9 amps
your battery provides 1.8 to 2 amps and your coil provides the remaining 2 amps hence in ac it lights only when the engine is started...
as the total current in started engine is 1.8to 2 (batt) +2 (coil)
enough to light a 35w bulb...

if you want to settle down with halogen only, then why do all this dc??

what you can do now is stay with current rr, and rewind..
so what will happen is that a 55w bulb will need say 5 amps, battery might provide 2 or even less, so no worries, you can generate the remaining amps with the coil itself...
you can even plonk a 100-120w bulb (if you can source) with a 2.5 amps battery and stock rr unit... if you coil can provide say a 7 amp at normal rpms through coil...
got it ??

but why are you going for a 55w bulb halo
why not hid mate??

a 35w hid gives a lot more light then a 120w halo, trust me...

i know i am confusing you, but if you are settling down for halo, then don't do the dc stuff.....
its not needed,

1 more thing I'll like to point...

I've used my 35w stock bulb in dc tor 3-4 days as i was constructing my headlight assembly and believe me the intensity is radically improved then ac...
the same bulb glows better in dc, say what your bulb glows a 7k rpm before on ac, now even glows like that when the engine is off...

if you install ape rr, the good part is that it never overcharges the battery, if your battery is charged, it would not even give 1 amp to the battery more to spoil it...

if everything is done correctly, you will never have to worry about the battery my friend...
even at highways in the middle of no where, as soon as your charging is good, you will never fall short of light...


i can get it done correctly for you, even i want to rectify my 9 amps charging as my current setting will charge a 6 amps battery nicely, still low for 9 amp...

don't kill me after reading all this

Hmmmm relaxed. You are to help me & that is why I am troubling you .

Ok. After reading all this and seeing your setup, I have no more doubts in my mind . I will convert both the Fiero's to DC and plonk in a 55/60w Halo.

You are right my friend that a 35w HID is more powerful than a 120w Halo, but personally, I dont like that white light throw and that is why I put up the aux lamp.

Now my hands are all itching as I want to get them dirty and get that coil rewinded and upgrade to a 55w Halo asap. But I dont think the rain gods will allow me to do this(not atleast till august). 31 longs days I cant wait

Can I come down to your place this sat for coil rewinding atleast?? Confirm and let me know. Also can you confirm the part number for ape rr, is it ED22158. I am attaching the pic, can you confirm if this is the correct 1.
Because I will need 2 for both Fiero's and will have to check with the dealer.

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/vishalj/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

Thanks for all the help man.

Vishal

yes dude, this is right.
it should have only 4 wires...
2 gray, 1 black and 1 yellow...

i thought i was coming down there this Saturday to take my keys as well as get my clutch spring problem sorted, its alright you come....

even I'll get my coil re-winded to pump up 16 amps, i suggest you too do the same...
16 amps will be more than enough for installing an airplane headlight
if we can source an airplane aux lamp

let me check that coil guy will be there on Saturday or not...
I'll keep you informed...

by the way hid comes in yellow too...
mine is not white, but golden, its 4300k, 5000k is white
you can find a 3000k which will be yellow...

just a suggestion if color is a problem.

No the engine's fine and is humming like a bee since the engine modification job has been done.
The thing is that .I had this modification in mind for a long time and when the engine needed to be opened up to investigate the oil drinking issue. I took the opportunity to get the conversion done.

good,
how much have you ridden with this engine??
and how much did you ride before conversion??

i never wanted to upgrade my engine to be honest, but my block was damaged, so i had to bore it....
but I'm very happy for doing it

the coil guy will be there on Saturday....
he's a maniac, so i hope he doesn't do some drama or delay unnecessarily..

we'll buy 19 gauge wire from outside,
and then rush to him..
i know a mech nearby who can remove our coils
or i think even he can remove, but he doesn't have space to keep our opened bikes, many times it has happened that the traffic people have impounded opened up bikes too from there...

its in thane by the way...

are you getting both of your fiero's
if yes
HOW ???

Dude, do you think I should also go for 19 gauge wire?? I think 12 gauge will be more than enough for me, because I am only going to use a 55/60w Halo and not HID's & sometimes the aux lamp .

What you said about the HID is right, but personally I dont like it (Why I dont know??) I have the Ape RR also with me,so no worries on that.

Looks I am tied up with work tomorrow(sat) as dad is going out of town & hence I need to be there at the office.

You can come down to my place and get your work done,I will come later to your place. Else I can give you 2 coils(spare) and you can get it rewinded for me and I can then pick it up from you. Wiring can be done over the phone.

What do you suggest??

Also was planning to leave my bike at the mech & get the disc kit installed.

Hope it does not rain tomorrow.


Vishal

My bike had done 24,000 kms before the modification was done and i've completed 1600 kms since.The reason for such low usage was that it was my dream bike and used it some what heavily in collage days.Once i moved here i had other work horses .Dad's kinetic honda(sold) and mostly cousin's rx 135 which was kept here with me and was the main work horse till recent.
I pampered my bike a lot and believe it or not ,i wouldn't take it out if it had rained(still avoid doing that).So mostly i'd use it for daily short rides to gym , on weekends and for touring.Even the local studio staff knew my bike ,as whenever a reel was given for developing it always had a few pictures of my bike.
Friends, indulge me for a bit here.Why this kind of love for the fiero? well ,it has to do with the engineering of the bike .I mean in city's stop and go traffic it feels like any other modern day 125 cc bike ,as it lacks the whiplash like SNAP! right off the throttle which modern day exhaust-tech blah blah blah bikes have. But take it out of the city and give it some free stretch of tarmac or a race track!! its a different animal all together!! the engine seems to change its character!! from a docile bike to that of an race thoroughbred!!!! why?? its because of the crankshaft/fly-wheel and the engine's nature.Suddenly engine seems to revv freely and it begs you to open the throttle wide and unleash its full power!It was the same with the cbz classic too because it had a heavy crank too .Now a days the crank's are lightened to give that snappy feel in low speeds but the bikes run out of breath in higher revvs once they hit open roads or tracks.
The same feel of the crank and engine's smooth power delivery made the fiero such a popular bike among racers and tuners.I mean when pulsar came along the supposedly" all knowing magazine journos" said the fiero might win on dirt tracks and rallies but the "mighty pulsar " would show a clean pair of hooves to the fiero on a race track! Boy were they made to eat their own words !! Starting from the day of its release to the present day the fiero and its derivatives have dominated all kind of racing .Some times even winning in up to 250 cc category too on tuned bikes!! Hence such respect for it even today from any road side mechanic to the illegal drag racer,because they know the bike's capability .
The magazines were biased heavily towards the bajaj products most probably because they knew nothing about racing or maybe because the editors were in bed with bajaj!So the bike never got its due in the magazines albeit in a grudging manner when they had no option but to admit the results of track tests data which were staring at them in their faces.
I still have the "track test " of the bikes done by overdrive for the first time by an indian magazine and in it the stock fiero ridden by racer was estimated to hit speeds in excess of 118 kmph.They were using laser based heavy equipments at that time to measure the speeds and the racers were asked to go easy as the track was wet and they didn't want to crash the bikes with the costly equipments strapped on.
The fiero is truly a legend of indian motor sports and thanks mainly to passionate racers/tuners like Joel Joe and others who have made sure the bike got its due .

dude...
let me correct you...

19 gauge wire is thicker than 20 gauge wire, but slimmer than 18 guage wire...

the order is from slim to thick as
22<21<20<19<18<17<16<15<14<13<12...

i think stock wire is 22 gauge...
19 gauge is thicker than 22, but 12 gauge will be almost a centimeter thick


this is the stock





and this is the coil with 19 gauge wire...





see the wire is a bit thicker, not too much and its better in quality then the stock wire too...

don't worry, 19 gauge is tried and tested for DC conversion, not Hid's particularly..
so as you want DC, stay with what experts suggest...

if you notice the coil again, you'll see a black think on top and the wire harness escaping out...
the black thing on top is the pulse generator...
the wiring harness gives proper wires to your kick starter, and other stuff...
all these things are attached to the wiring of the coil, if you do source a similar coil, from where will you source the pulse generator and the rubber cork which escapes out the wire...
got my point?


if you notice a yellow pole out of 8 poles, this is the current generating pole which lights the spark plug only...
hence when you kick, the magnet rotates and this thing generates current to spark the plug and eventually start the bike
also pulse generator (black thing on top) gets its connection from this yellow pole, so other stator coil available in junk will not be a direct fit...

the copper wire in stock (22 gauge) is not that good, and neither properly winded, if you see the last leg of pic 1 you'll know how poorly it has been wound by the tvs guys...

BELIEVE ME MY FRIEND, ALL YOU'LL DO IS IMPROVE..
so you don't have to worry about keeping a coil stock...

we're just replacing the copper thing to a better quality and slightly thicker copper to provide good amps,
everything will be okay, trust me...


maybe all this information will make you a bit relaxed, i hope...

by the way, a 35w hid and a 35w halo needs SAME current, so the wire will provide same to hid as well as halo, it doesn't make a difference..
both are DC
both are 35w

so that pulls out the question that you need a 19 gauge wire for hid, and a non 19 for halo...
it needs same...



very well said my friend...
its true
this bike is the most agile 150cc bike i've ever ridden, you can literally throw this bike in corners and hold ground firmly...

during my ride at lonavala, a twisty and hilly region in maharashtra, I've scraped my foot-pegs to the ground at wet roads, during rain on this bike,
i couldn't do it with any other bike as comfortably.

regarding other acceleration things, i have a good thing to tell,
I've sorted my clutch spring problem and bike leaves the ground like a rocket...
now i can feel that engine boring performance to the fullest...

i have to struggle to keep the front wheel on the ground at first gear...

this is the only bike out there which is not only trouble free and maintenance free but even after almost a decade, never disappoints....

hats off to tvs/suzuki to produce such a marvel of an equipment to us 150cc class masses.....

They had initially over tightened the chain so I had to go back after riding a few kms.

I have learned a valuable lesson and will Never again to go for the opening of the engine without all necessary preparations and all the spare parts in hand.

gixxer junkie m

do post the Fiero test track records for us to see. Yes the fiero has been great so far ... just hope we continue to get the spares. I got so frustrated searching for the spares that I felt the need to dump it and go for the New GS150R. But I guess from now on I will try to stock-up on the spares.