Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx



Hey Gixxer. Good to see you here after a long time. Nice to know the modding is still going on

That tacho looks gr8. Reminds me a lot of the one on FX fieros (the fiero variant I have came with Pricol make) Truly an analog tacho comes in handy to check the revs climbing. Plus, they are more robust than digital ones.

Some clearer pics please - I could not make out your earlier oil cooler mod. Are you still running it?

The bigger bend pipe size is nice and stands out now with the chroming.

How is the feedback on the RTR clutch mod? I guess the time lag for gear changes will be lesser because of the shorter cable travel and the 'pull' action of rtr compared to earlier 'push' action of fiero.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx


The bike is having fiero wiring harness,which has been modified to fit RTR 180 TCI.Tachometer addition was also a modification on the same harness. [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] is the electrical guy and he should be able to explain it in some detail.Basically as psr had told me,any bike which has a cdi can be modified to fit a tachometer.
Thanks man,yeah modifications will continue on her.

The tacho as you can see isn't that of a fx,but like you noticed ,it's very similar and it's a pricol unit too.Yeah,since you guys have had em since ages and they do seem to be having no probs.So analog ones do seem to be more robust and there are many shops which repair them cheaply as well.

Better pics will come once the Mediterranean like rainy ,winter weather improves. You can see the oil-cooler in the pic,if you look really closely.So yeah,oil-cooler is still there and working without any leaks,or any other oil circulation related issues.It's a simple modification and basically nothing more than a bolt-on job.It does it's job though.

Bend-pipe modification was needed and it's been months since this modification was done.This modification though,immediately makes the difference to be felt in performance.It slightly brought the bottom-end torque down,but made the top-end easy revving,with more engine refinement all through the revv range and the engine does breathe better.The other thing about this modification is that it solved the carb-blow out problem on starting the bike.Which was due to the narrow stock fiero bend-pipe,not being able to scavenge the exhaust quickly during valve over-lap, along with the mapping running on advance curve all the time.

About the RTR clutch modification,it really was something which was needed to be done.Like i had mentioned before,the original japanese FCC clutch plates which came with the bike,they can last as much as i lakh kms and the same was able to take the high compression,200cc modification for 14,000 kms.But sadly the chinese 200 buck one couldn't even handle the 200cc mod for even 1 km without slipping. Just go and check the RTR clutch springs,they will give you an idea as to how strong RTR clutch is.
RTR clutch mechanism is push type and fiero is pull type.
Abhi is running the same 200 buck clutch on his bike for about 8k kms and 6k kms of thos 8k have been with the RTR180 mod.So they can last that long,provided you replace the fiero clutch springs at every clutch plate change.Which is once again not such a big deal as the set of springs of the fiero costs just 80 bucks.

RTR clutch mechanism is vastly superior to that of the pull type of the fiero and now FCC is here in india itself from years manufacturing RTR clutch plates.Regarding the feel,i have always ridden my bikes with half-clutch set-up So the feel isn't much.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx


Awesome! Even I am a half-clutch fan myself. I prefer that setting any day Thanks for correcting me about the clutch push/pull action typo I mentioned earlier.
I have actually added another steel plate to the stock fiero clutch (as Vignesh had mentioned a long time back)
There are 2 reasons I went in for this mod -
1) because it is cheaper for me than investing in rtr's clutch right now (which I may go in for in future as pocket money permits)
2) because I converted to 180 cc too
The clutch needed to be reinforced because of the extra power coming down now because of the extra 30ccs.

Actually, all these mods have been carried out on a "needed to do" basis -
Reason I put a rtr kit is because my stock fiero one had come to bore after a decade. So, oil was entering the squish area. As I needed to rebore, I thought why not do 180 mod...
Then my clutch plates were on their way out after about 2 years. As I needed to change so I thought why not do clutch mod...
Now, running-is over, so was gonna share the news here anyway with all here as it has been an awesome upgrade.


It is because of your inputs gixxer, that I had put a larger GB sprocket and enjoyed higher top end on highways. It was one of my first forays into improving my bike. And now!
So, a lot of gratitude from my side to this forum, you, PSR, nano, vignesh and all who I learned a lot from.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

I am glad that the start you had, to modifications ,with the gb sprocket has brought you here today and no need to thank me bro. Thank Suzuki for the engine platform.

No need to do the RTR clutch mod really if you can manage with the 200 buck plates for at least 5k kms.

More details please!

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx


Yeah bro. I will manage now with the extra steel plate mod till I get more bucks and time for the rtr clutch swap. It's running fine so no rush The bite is good!

Details are the same with regards to the manner of conversion. I checked the conrod for up-down play and there was no movement.

One major difference here is the fact that I selected the rtr160 head. The main reason being that I wanted initial and midrange over top end.
I know you are a high-speed biased rider and so is your machine. Thus, you have the 180 head now I believe.
For me - I love torque down low in the revs and I knew that top end even with rtr160 head is not less if I needed it on the highway.
It is a known fact that the exhaust port in 160's head is smaller than 180. This restricts the top end by a little.
So, the rtr 180 exhaust also does not fit on the rtr 160 head exhaust port.
In fact, I believe even the cam profile of the 180 allows for more midrange. So those are clear advantages of 180 head over 160 head.

The 180 head is next to impossible to find in Bombay's junkyards as even nano realised. So the next best thing for me was the 160 head.
I didn't go in for a brand-new one as I was on a very tight budget. And as I know the junkyards since many years I got a good 160 engine itself.
I only bought the head with valves, tappet cover, cam, cylinder, chain tensioner and exhaust as I wanted to use my existing BS26 carb and wanted to retain my gearbox and crank with the old original engine no.

The obvious differences in fiero and rtr heads are that the camshaft is lighter and longer in rtrs. The rocker arms are of roller type and slightly lighter too. The piston also is almost the same weight even though bigger by few mms.

As I had sourced a rtr160 cylinder - I decided to put a 62.5mm piston in it - this is the stock one of rtr180 and also the second oversize of rtr160 (PSR and Gix - kindly correct me if I'm off with this calculation)
This was done to give me proper 177cc as the stock rtr180 rather than 175cc with the rtr160's stock 62mm piston

All the fears I had of a slow machine disappeared with that first ride (both after first kick as well as first oil change)
The bike is very quick and has a great pace - no doubt at all.
In stock gearing, the bike is definitely quicker in gear-to-gear acceleration than rtr180 but top-end won't match I feel.
The lack of 5th gear can be addressed with a bigger GB sprocket.
Power-to-weight ratio is bound to be better in converted fieros. Light chassis, 5 bhp more, 5 nm more, etc...

A few pics will follow soon...

I wanted to brainstorm with you about carb, jets, plugs, cdi, compression ratio, etc So, pls do bounce off some experiences of yours.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

I'll start off firstly with some of the misconceptions that you have, about the differences in RTR heads with regard to performance

For starters,my bike is also running on a RTR160 head.

RTR 180 has a bigger inlet valve,which means it has to have a slightly bigger port and that means more top-end bias than RTRE160? No,RTR 180 has intake manifold which is designed to increase flow rate by being funnel like,were as RTR 160 intake manifold is straight piple like.This continues into the port as well,meaning ,RTR 180 has a inlet port which is once again designed to increase mid-range.Were as RTR 160's inlet port is designed for top-end bias.

Coming to the head's cam.Both RTR 160 and 180 have the exact same cam and rocker arms.So there's no bias designed here in terms of their performance.

RTR 160's exhaust is a direct fit on that of the RTR180 head and vice versa.But the difference is in the bend-pipe diameter.RTR 180 has a bigger diameter bend-pipe.Which is 29.7mm if i am not mistaken.Stock fiero has a inner pipe diameter of 18mm.That is,there's a inner pipe within the stock silencers,which is there to put a air-gap between the inner and outer pipes,so that heat won't be that too high on the external bend-pipe. Now my bike is running on a single bend-pipe ,which has 32mm inner diameter.Hence it brought down the initial torque a bit,but freed up the top-end.

There's lot to things than just valve sizes when it comes to performance. RTR 160 is a short stroke engine and that by nature means it will be a high revving top-end biased engine config.

RTR 180 has the same combustion chamber size as that of the RTR 160 head.This increases the compression due to cc increase and this alone increases the bhp along with power increase due to increase in displacement.

What matters is the combination of all the things,right from the air filter to the exhaust's end-cap,when it comes to tune of a engine/dynamic compression.That is with regard to where and how the power is developed along with engine's bore-stroke config.So what we have done is a mix of lot of things.

You should have gone for a new RTR 180 bore kit instead of buying a used bore. Shreedutta had bought a engine and head as a whole unit from the junkyard.As he was convinced by the shrewd seller that it's switched right from a working bike as it is! As i had mentioned previously in a post about the RTR head of his running without oil for close to 15k kms!! Why? because the head came with pulsar rocker arm shafts!! and subsequently this supposedly new bore gave up as well! So he ended up re-boring the cylinder!! He had paid 5k for both head and cylinder set.But he could have paid 2.3k and gotten a brand new cylinder kit ,that too from a showroom itself! A used ,newish RTR head's price is 2.5k.So you do the math and see does it makes sense to buy a used bore?Even if you paid less for both head and bore as a combo.Still it would have been better to have bought a new RTR180 bore kit,which comes with better rings,lighter piston and coated piston skirts.

Ask me whatever you wanna know about the carb,cdi etc and i'll try and give you whatever i have learnt so far as a working set-up.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx



Oh! You are running too on a rtr160 head? Whatta rockin surprise
And you are right - we have done a mix of lot of things LOL

How has your experience been with the bs29? Is there any drop in pick up? That big carb will surely improve top end.

Thing is - I'm finding a lot of difference in suzuki and tvs wiring for fieros.
One is dc and the latter is ac. So, tci mod for me won't be possible. If it can be done - do shed some light.

Regarding compression query - the stock fiero and both rtrs CR is the same.
Have you considered raising the CR by 0.5?
Thing is if we are at 9.5:1 - then by precisely raising it to 10:1 - will there be knocking?

Truly, your practical experience will be very helpful in these areas

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

BS29 is a very good addition to this modification.It does increase the top-end.But stock 26mm carb is good enough and with some jetting done,there won't be much difference between the two.This is because 29mm carb doesn't reduce initial or mid-range by much in comparison,meaning this engine can take even bigger carb.I have another BS29 with me and i intend to bore it out as future mod.I had tried doing the same with the stock carb and ruined it . So now i have some idea as to what not to do.
Did you do jetting?

I am more than happy with the compression that is there.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx



Hey yes. After some trial and error, my mech n I achieved good jetting. It's amazing how the right nos can extend top end etc. So now I'm in no rush to fit bs29 as this is just fine When budgeting improves, I might get one though to experience that carb's power.

Here, I was thinking that my old original 150 piston would be of usha make. Imagine my pleasant surprise to see the one I had was made by Escorts. It was printed on the bottom. Interesting!

Regarding the oil cooler addition - there are 2 oil gallery bolts underneath the block on the right hand side. So is the one on the top the outlet for oil cooler? And the one on the bottom the inlet/return to the oil sump? You said you have added oil cooler to the factory provisions. Are these 2 the ones you mentioned? Suzuki definitely planned ahead

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Trying to attach a pic here for reference...

Finally it did attach - but cannot flip it around

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

Yeah those are the provisions for the oil-cooler and yeah we can thank suzuki for thinking ahead.Escorts piston? Depending on the batches ,of even the same model,parts manufacturer might vary i guess.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

Oh ok. Cool. I have added some text for better understanding. Is that how it is?


And bro. I'm guessing now you have a 180cc cylinder right. Earlier you had a 200cc setup. I think you have changed your bore. It's been long so can't recall.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

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Hi gixxer,
Sorry was not much active due to frequent travelling to Native for some other personal works and not too mention continuous raining here.
I found out that the Diagnostic connector has hidden behind the battery compartment and connector burnt due to acid leakage from old battery.new wiring harness costs 2k+ and 15 days waiting which is out of budget.other connctions too messed up wrt starter relay snd other things.
So i am trying to source connector if its available in JC road, or to check in shivaji nagar for old wiring harness(to restore the wiring to stock) since most of fi owners switching to carb setup.
Got the service manual for Apache 160-EFi need to solve the wiring problems first.does the mechanic you mentioned in old post(satish) works on electrical issues or any other mechanic in our locality?
Thanks,
Raman

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

Yeah bro,the one at the front is the oil-pump outlet to the oil-cooler and the bottom one behind it is the oil's return back to the sump from the oil-cooler. The pic is correct. Yes, previously i had the 200cc bore and that's when i had installed the oil-cooler.I ran it in the 200cc mode for 14k kms and changed over to the RTR 180 bore-kit.The 200cc bore is still in the same condition as it was when it was new.It has usha piston kit with rings and most probably the sleeve is from a ZMA.Mech is of the opinion that it's good enough for about 70k kms,if oil is changed at every 2k interval without fail and no less a grade than 20w40.But it was running on super high compression and i didn't want to take that chance for that long.So i got a new RTR180 bore kit and this set-up is fine enough for me. Weather's been awful and i understand if you weren't able to get much done in these days because of it. Why don't you try car and automobile garages?They all run on Fi and they might give you an idea as to which connector can be suitable.Other than that,you can head to bajaj,or yamaha showrooms and find out if their connector fits.In jc road too,you better remove that connector first and then try and get a similar one from any 4 wheeler spares dealer. The mechanic satish i mentioned about,he does electrical works,but i don't think he has any idea of FI bikes.So if you can get a connector first,he might then be able to remove the remote lock etc and make the wiring stock.Provided you have a wiring diagram of the FI bike. [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] might be able to help you out here.

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

Hi gixxer,
As you said first i will remove the coupler and then check if its available in JC road four/two wheeler shop.remote lock has been removed by has been removed by prev owner but left some unwanted wires.i will share wiring tomorrow.
Thanks,
Raman

Re: Fiero/FieroF2/FieroFx

Hi Gixxer,
i will try to source connector today also attached pic of wiring for Ignition and charging.