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**rreneav1987** · 06-13-2013, 02:04 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by veryhiphop View Post

yes contacted psr sir....from his view it is lean AFR issue...suggested to check fuel pump/injector/sensor ...but all was fine...issue was in the setup of parts not been done properly by SVC...later on found valve spring broken....even HM engineer not able to sort out....but in last SVC re-open engine and replace all parts/resetup...which sorted out all my issues....

I remember you posted the pic here when I started my first post though i went through the posts.. Happy for you that it got resolved..

**abhi7013** · 06-13-2013, 04:46 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Am not sure about why that happened in the case of your bike..

abhi.. I think it could be because of the Air Filter.. did you try as suggested by @Divya Sharan and @psr sir.. removing the battery and leaving it out for some good 20-30 minutes and resetting the ECU so that it can re learn.. usually this hiccups happen with carb bikes with performance filters.. because of the Air to Fuel Ratio and the smaller jets which cause such hiccups..

Same might be in your case except you are using an FI which means the bike will learn automatically and change the AFR automatically.. but resetting the ECU Map might help it learn.. again.. am not sure... this is what I have experienced with my 2003 Karizma...

Connected the battery back after 20 mins bro. While removing the panels, thought of checking the filter and i was shocked to see the condition! Here is the pic of the filter when it was new..

And this is the condition now..

Also i observed a kind of leak in the air box...

Well, condition of the filter is bad. I have no idea how to clean it. Also i observed leakage at the cylinder head..

So this leakage contributes to the burning smell.

Looking at the pics, is it possible to conclude that the air filter is the only cause for the non-uniform pull? And ya by jerking i mean the kind that happens when there is no fuel..
If the filter is at fault then why does the problem occur only when the engine is hot?
Also is the oil leakage at the cylinder head too much to worry about? This is the second time its happening. The first time it happened i got it rectified. Its happening again..

**psr** · 06-13-2013, 05:03 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Connected the battery back after 20 mins bro. While removing the panels, thought of checking the filter and i was shocked to see the condition! Here is the pic of the filter when it was new..

And this is the condition now..

Also i observed a kind of leak in the air box...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104619[/ATTACH]
Well, condition of the filter is bad. I have no idea how to clean it. Also i observed leakage at the cylinder head..
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104621[/ATTACH]
So this leakage contributes to the burning smell.

Looking at the pics, is it possible to conclude that the air filter is the only cause for the non-uniform pull? And ya by jerking i mean the kind that happens when there is no fuel..
If the filter is at fault then why does the problem occur only when the engine is hot?
Also is the oil leakage at the cylinder head too much to worry about? This is the second time its happening. The first time it happened i got it rectified. Its happening again..

Change the Air Filter ASAP.It is no longer doing it's job.......Your Exhaust valve door is leaking(change "O" ring), and oil inside the Filter Box shows blowby( normal)......your engine may wear out soon.....
Change the Air Filter to stock and check if bike is running ok...

**rreneav1987** · 06-13-2013, 05:35 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Connected the battery back after 20 mins bro. While removing the panels, thought of checking the filter and i was shocked to see the condition! Here is the pic of the filter when it was new..

[ATTACH=CONFIG]104616[/ATTACH]
And this is the condition now..
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104618[/ATTACH]

Also i observed a kind of leak in the air box...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104619[/ATTACH]
Well, condition of the filter is bad. I have no idea how to clean it. Also i observed leakage at the cylinder head..
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104620[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]104621[/ATTACH]
So this leakage contributes to the burning smell.

Looking at the pics, is it possible to conclude that the air filter is the only cause for the non-uniform pull? And ya by jerking i mean the kind that happens when there is no fuel..
If the filter is at fault then why does the problem occur only when the engine is hot?
Also is the oil leakage at the cylinder head too much to worry about? This is the second time its happening. The first time it happened i got it rectified. Its happening again..

My God.. what were the Hero SVC doing all these days without noticing the leakage from head and the air filter... when was the last time you got your bike serviced bro??

Here it seems like the head seal if busted and it needs replacement.. I noticed leakage too.. but not to this extent..

got the head seal changed..

but that is too much leakage.. so please take care of it ASAP!!!

regarding the air filter.. get it replaced with the stock one.. I see in the pic that you have put holes over the air filter box cover.. you might have to get that changed too.. not sure if it is available separately.. but that will for sure harm the bike...

the blockage is for sure do the air filter.. you can get it cleaned too.. but I wouldn't suggest that.. [MENTION=37035]ashwinprakas[/MENTION] can guide you to cleaning the air filter though..

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by psr View Post

Change the Air Filter ASAP.It is no longer doing it's job.......Your Exhaust valve door is leaking(change "O" ring), and oil inside the Filter Box shows blowby( normal)......your engine may wear out soon.....
Change the Air Filter to stock and check if bike is running ok...

Sir, what do you mean by the engine may wear out soon??

**Divya Sharan** · 06-13-2013, 06:25 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

@abhi7013 - get back to stock settings bro! I've always said the same. Ditch the Simota right away. Get the O ring replaced for exhaust valves ASAP!
The oil in AF box is normal. As mentioned by @psr sir, its the blowby residue, happens in case you pour excess in engine oil.

@rreneav1987 - engine may wear out soon. What does the worst inference mean to you? It's precisely what was conveyed. Going back stock would give him roughly 10-15k kms before something else pops up and needs a; well I hate to say this; REBUILD.

**rreneav1987** · 06-13-2013, 06:33 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

@abhi7013 - get back to stock settings bro! I've always said the same. Ditch the Simota right away. Get the O ring replaced for exhaust valves ASAP!
The oil in AF box is normal. As mentioned by @psr sir, its the blowby residue, happens in case you pour excess in engine oil.

@rreneav1987 - engine may wear out soon. What does the worst inference mean to you? It's precisely what was conveyed. Going back stock would give him roughly 10-15k kms before something else pops up and needs a; well I hate to say this; REBUILD.

I know what that means.. but I didn't understand why it will wear out soon...

Holy Cows.. and all this because of the Air Filter?? :-o

I am no ways gonna do any mod to my black pearl... no ways I can think of rebuilding her..
[MENTION=53321]abhi7013[/MENTION] get your bike back to stock and ride her safe bro..

**alok urs** · 06-13-2013, 06:33 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by psr View Post

With a K&N more air and dust is allowed inside your engine...with a Carburetor the main jets are upgraded to compensate for the increased porosity of K&N..with Injection you have to recalibrate the Fi...Try disconnecting the battery for 5 minutes then re-connecting it..this will reset the Fi value and ECU will re-learn...The problem you faced is due to excess heating of engine...If you value your engine revert back to stock.

I will try remapping the ECU sir, I don't face this issue while riding in city. Last month I did a 600kms trip to kadapa in two days with the same setup but I cruised above 100 all the way and I didn't face any such issues or engine heating issues, even dis time the engine didn't get heated too much.
I'll remap the ECU and revert back to stock filters and check if the prob still exists in my next trip.....anyways thanks for d inputs guys

**Divya Sharan** · 06-13-2013, 06:46 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

and all this because of the Air Filter?? :-o

That's why people say to stay stock. An AF harms the engine ever so slowly. It has come to this state in 30k kms for Abhi. May deteriorate rapidly further. To most out there, 30k kms is a lot. Check RC threads, guys swear by the reliability of the mods after running 20k kms on the setup! Pity.

**psr** · 06-13-2013, 06:54 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Another member owning a ZMA-R did the K&N mods and soon found out throttle slide sticking,and also wear....he had to change the slide due to wear caused by the dust particle that got in through the air filter.....I guess practical lessons are more Valuable than Theoretical surmises.....and even in theory the K&N allows more dust than stock Paper filters....
Here is a link which is self explanatory..
Debunking the K&N Myth - Why OEM is Better : Nissan Articles

**rreneav1987** · 06-13-2013, 07:03 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

That's why people say to stay stock. An AF harms the engine ever so slowly. It has come to this state in 30k kms for Abhi. May deteriorate rapidly further. To most out there, 30k kms is a lot. Check RC threads, guys swear by the reliability of the mods after running 20k kms on the setup! Pity.

Some instinct inside me wanted me to go for the Performance Air Filter and the FFE.. but somewhere in my heart.. I didn't want to spoil my Black Pearl.. so I listened to the little part of my heart and luckily at the same time i started posting here.. by luck I messaged [MENTION=41586]Divya Sharan[/MENTION] and we had a long conversation about Joels kit and decided never to do any mod not so ever..

now I see what a small mod can do to the engine.. Thanks a lot

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by psr View Post

Another member owning a ZMA-R did the K&N mods and soon found out throttle slide sticking,and also wear....he had to change the slide due to wear caused by the dust particle that got in through the air filter.....I guess practical lessons are more Valuable than Theoretical surmises.....and even in theory the K&N allows more dust than stock Paper filters....
Here is a link which is self explanatory..
Debunking the K&N Myth - Why OEM is Better : Nissan Articles

Yes sir.. I realize now this is because of the dust particles which has gone into the chamber as the air filter isn't filtering out properly.. like you said.. its not doing it duty.. which in turn caused the dust to enter the chamber and which in turn the piston is pushing oil into the exhaust O ring causing leakage from exhaust.. in other terms.. bore is about to give up its life... Am i right sir??

**psr** · 06-13-2013, 07:11 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

Yes sir.. I realize now this is because of the dust particles which has gone into the chamber as the air filter isn't filtering out properly.. like you said.. its not doing it duty.. which in turn caused the dust to enter the chamber and which in turn the piston is pushing oil into the exhaust O ring causing leakage from exhaust.. in other terms.. bore is about to give up its life... Am i right sir??

In this particular case it is not that the bore is going bad...but the engine had been going high on heat which had caused the head and associated metal parts to expand more causing leak......the engine had been set ,and working under normal temperature, and taking the bike to higher temperature will cause expansion of metal parts ,leading to noise and leaks.....Heat is essential for the engine to function well, but excessive heat is the enemy of any I C engine's life.

**abhi7013** · 06-13-2013, 09:41 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Man I never knew it was so freaking serious an issue! Wanted to just increase the damned pick up. Bike felt really alive when using the filter. Alas I need to come back to stock. Feeling damn depressed that I have to give up the filter. How much is the filter guys? And ya the air box cover has a hole which the mech made for proper air intake. Shall close it using a cardboard.

Never been so damn hurt regarding my bike. Also not able to make up my heart and mind to give up the filter. Totally freaking confused

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

**Divya Sharan** · 06-13-2013, 09:54 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Man I never knew it was so freaking serious an issue! Wanted to just increase the damned pick up. Bike felt really alive when using the filter. Alas I need to come back to stock. Feeling damn depressed that I have to give up the filter. How much is the filter guys? And ya the air box cover has a hole which the mech made for proper air intake. Shall close it using a cardboard.

Never been so damn hurt regarding my bike. Also not able to make up my heart and mind to give up the filter. Totally freaking confused

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

AF costs 236 rupees. Here's my dirty engine at ~29k kms. Need to clean the fins one day. (never changed anything except spark plugs)

**abhi7013** · 06-13-2013, 10:29 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Had a chat with divya bro and with a heavy heart have made a decision to come back to stock filter, downgear by installing a p220 rear sprocket, and get a psd. Thank god I found the problem before any great problem..
My question is this- to what extent is my bike damaged till now? Is it serious? Getting kinda scared.

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

**psr** · 06-13-2013, 11:15 PM

Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Had a chat with divya bro and with a heavy heart have made a decision to come back to stock filter, downgear by installing a p220 rear sprocket, and get a psd. Thank god I found the problem before any great problem..
My question is this- to what extent is my bike damaged till now? Is it serious? Getting kinda scared.

Sent from my MT27i using Tapatalk 2

Don't be scared since Honda is a rugged engine....I bought a Pre-owned ZMA with 21 K on odo.......that is how good the engine is...if you take care of it well, it will give good service, and now all parts are available, and those not available can be ordered...the cost of spares have also come down, making the ZMA a real VFM bike...
If you want more air in to the inlet, then you can try fitting a Zen MPFi Air Filter with a little DIY...Me and some members with ZMA have done it with good results...I had done roughly 7,000 Kms and filter is still good, though a bit dirty...If you want the sound, then with stock filter, take off the rubber piece ,between the Air Box and the air cavity under the seat...

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