Re: Need suggestion

Don't know about oil cooler but three spark plugs are definitely not marketing gimmick. 200ns gives more fuel average than duke 200 without having substantial dip in the power. Even with its shorter gearing, 200ns, has better fuel economy and produces more power than P220 which has some fairing + taller gearing.

Petrol engines are been around for about one and half century and still today they are only ~20% efficient. There haven't been much innovation going on to improve petrol engine core functionality. So if some indian company comes up with a solution which might improve efficiency even as little as a few percentage we should acknowledge that. People who think there are too many spark plugs in new pulsar are dumb and they think only japs jermans have the right to come up with new tech.

I and you, my friend, are tech geeks or even nerds and we don't get to get unbiased on any sort of tech no matter who comes up with it first.

Re: Need suggestion

Kindly refrain from calling people dumb because they differ from you in their thought process.

As for the triple spark, a better (well timed) ignition will always be more efiicient(overally) than a less well timed system. Consider this, the classic 150, without any fancy plug tech was advertised to have 77kmpl. It did return about 55-60 kmpl. At par if not better with dtsi pulsars. So you can understand why the twin or triple spark heads are viewed as a marketing gimmik.


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Re: Need suggestion

[MENTION=25280]lockhrt999[/MENTION] Well, I rode a P200NS with just one plug connected, acceleration and FE was same, I even removed the plugs to see if the combustion was efficient, the plugs showed chocolate colored tips so indeed it was efficient. Finally checked CO level before catcon too, the results were same with either with plugs or without.

Re: Bajaj Pulsar 180 (All Versions)

Reverted back to p180 kit, the power is much better than of 220 kit.
P220 kit was a total failure because power and mileage both went down.

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Re: Need suggestion

I meant to say some people are dumb or ignorant at technology. I have seen this a lot lately, especially in video reviews. Reviewer may not know how an engine works but they would still say it has a few too many spark plugs. If next year BMW comes with a bike having 10 spark plugs per cylinder same chaps will say pulsar now has far too few spark plugs. It's all about perception. There's been too little innovation going on in India and even when someone comes up with something new here, it has always been put in words like too much or too less. We tech guys, who like to get our hands dirty should think beyond that. I didn't call dumb anyone who knows advantages/disadvantages of 3 spark plugs, understands them and still doesn't like the idea. But I call all those people dumb who by no matter give pre-determined verdicts on any idea without thinking about it first.

Classic pulsar 150 with 'kawasaki' engine made puny 11.8 bhp and now days bajaj discover make that sort of power who on road give more fuel average than that official figures of classic P150.

Same goes with current bajaj and other manufacturer offerings, you can always find Bajaj bikes give a little bit more average for most of the cc categories.
I'm not saying yamaha honda can't build bike with that high average. They could if they want to and you know, why they don't? because 'internationally' they simply aren't bothered at all about carb bikes. When they want to sing about efficiency they call their rich girl friend called 'Electronic Fuel Injection'.

I've not ridden P200ns even once so don't know about it. But on my 180 I once disconnected one spark plug and bike engine sounded very coarse at high RPM.
There was some guy on the forum who tested similar with P150, and bike returned average about 35kmpl.

"Finally checked CO level before catcon too, the results were same with either with plugs or without."

How come you didn't know the reading was supposed to be the same? I thought you would know.
Let me tell you why that is, We check CO readings at idling and at idling if I remember correctly '3 spark plug tech' is disabled in P200ns so my dear friend even if you disconnect 2 spark plugs it's not going to change anything.

Now here, your obvious counter argument would be you didn't check CO at idling but at higher RPM. Well, bajaj says triple spark is activated at higher RPM which in general true but not accurate. On Bajaj DTSi or triple spark plug systems, the ignition map changes with the amount of throttle is applied and not with RPM. Infact, if I'm not wrong BCU doesn't care what current engine RPM is. You might as well cut the wire which transfers RPM data and still you'll find dtsi and triple spark working fine. So at stand-still you know, you don't need to apply a lot of throttle to red line the bike. So triple spark plug tech still isn't working regardless you have disconnected some plugs. CO reading shall be the same.

Again if you're talking about general pick up, like I said above, it won't change at low speeds. If you want to test the difference, do check the timings from 40-120 in 6th gear with one spark plug and 3 spark plugs setups. Same goes with CO emission, test this at 100 kph (if you can) and then tell me if it's still same.

In case of fuel consumption do retest this and only this time ride the bike at 120 kph for hours. If what your signature says is true then I'm afraid you're never going to notice major difference.

If I'm not wrong, if you let P200ns continue with only one spark plug running, in the matter of days bike will start misfire a lot at high speeds.
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At last, there are thousands of bike manufacturers in this world. If you can find anyone of them makes 200cc single cylinder 4 stroke with carb setup bike which produces more power than 200ns at the same time being more fuel efficient, then I'll rest my case, you bet.

Re: Need suggestion

The pulsars were never a kawasaki design. It was a completely indian motorcycle built by the stars ahead team. If i remember correctly, it was only the crankpin that was imported from japan. Though overall design scetches were done abroad.

The classic pulsar making less power had more to do with ineffiecient engine design than the twin plugs. Its the digital multimap ignition, tps and better head design that made the new pulsars more powerful.

As far as the ns is considered, It still makes less power than the duke 200. And a lean tuned engine with a matching advanced ignition timing explains the mileage.

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Re: Need suggestion

Lol I didn't know that. I have no clue why everyone says the engine was kawasaki design.

Re: Need suggestion

If i can find the old overdrive coverage i will upload it.

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Re: Need suggestion

found this while searching for projector headlamps..price is way to high and i dont know how it works..friends kindly check the link
Pulsar 180 Customized Healamp (Projector & Ellipsodial) - Kolkata - Spare Parts - Accessories

Re: Need suggestion

First of all, let me start by saying that there was never a Pulsar with engine designed by Kawasaki and all three spark plugs (two in case of older Pulsars) never fire at the same time and your theory about all three spark plugs not working while idling is not correct, at least in case of 200NS. Firstly, because Bajaj used 3 spark plugs to get away with a smaller catcon which would require the plugs to work even at idle as CO is measured in idle while getting PUC. You can test it yourself, after riding other bikes, when you turn off the engine, you hear a "kat kat" sound, that's the sound of the catcon cooling down, that sound you do not hear in case of 200NS. Secondly, AFAIK P200NS does not come with a BCU, I have taken apart 2 200NS and I could not find the BCU either in the bike or in the parts catalog. So your theory about 200NS activating 3 spark plugs based on throttle position is quite dubious.

A properly tuned 200NS would not give 40 kmpl as people claims, some just spread misinformation and most get better FE from wishful thinking. About the CO level increasing with higher RPMs with single spark plugs, my friend is getting a PUC after a few months and we are going to get it done with only one spark plug connected.

Regarding my signature, it means that since I'm primarily a bicyclist I never have to worry about speed limits and police check points.

Hope you take all this in a positive manner, not like few others here who after I informed them the truth, started having a grudge against me and it went to the point of personal attacks. If we had this discussion in real life, I would not have opened my mouth and corrected anyone as I do not like arguments but this is a place to share knowledge so I posted what was in my mind.

Re: Need suggestion

You are correct. The arrangement in twin-spark is such that for every 3 pulses of the left (main) plug, the right (secondary) plug fires once. You can check it with a timing light.

My understanding of the tech is the 2ndary plug is supposed to burn the unbrunt gases towards the end of the power stroke. So basically it will not affect power by a big margin. The same effect has been achieved by tvs in the centra with their vti tech with a single plug. Where the firing of the same plug is altered to acieve near complete cumbustion. I am sure many other bikes with a digital cdi do the same thing. So bajaj's approach to this issue is rather low tech and more bulky considering the hardware required.

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Re: Need suggestion

Oh let it rest already, I was in the schools when it came out and I didn't even know if it ran on petrol or diesel at that time. Everyone said it had kawasaki engine like the eliminator which was launched at same period. AFAIK everyone said dtsi was the first engine made by Bajaj.

Well, I know about what catcon is and the the kat kat noise it makes after shutting the engine.
Like I said previously, exactly like DTSi, the benefits of triple spark plug can only accounted at high speeds or when the engine is under load. It all depends on the position of the throttle. If you haven't find this already then strip dtsi, triple spark plug bikes again till you find it. To put in simple words the ignition map/timing changes with the position of the throttle.
Like DTSi, triple spark tech isn't beneficial at standstill idling so you are never going to notice any difference on CO emissions. When manufacturer design any new vehicle, they and RTO/ARAI test emissions at all of the power range/engine load and not at just stand still. Unfortunately we can't do similar testing with the tools we have in backyard.

On my DTSi I do notice the change in the ignition timing every time. Even bike sound note also changes very slightly accordingly.

If the ignition timing doesn't change at all and you find it dubious then why would Bajaj use digital controller for timing?
If 3 spark plugs aren't needed then why don't people run their P200NS on single spark plug all the time? Why they bother spending money on replacing two of the spark plugs?

I know whom are you talking about.
And I'm not one of the those three. They annoy me too.

I'd love to meet you in real life and talk even a lot more than this. I have been following you almost since you joined the forum. I admire your knowledge and respect your skill set (which I know for sure not just limited to mechanics.)
When knowledge arguments burst wide open, most of the folks(dumb at tech) say 'fcuk off' and run away. I, on the other hand like to get my hands dirty. And when I'm wrong, I've been wrong multiple times and a few times [MENTION=19778]Bibhu[/MENTION] has corrected me, I don't feel ashamed that I was wrong. No ego here.

Second spark plug runs every time after ~4k RPM.

It is supposed to be low tech/ low cost from the start. I hope you didn't expect NASA to incorporate triple spark plug tech in their cryogenic engines.
You're not understanding Bajaj's approach. Bajaj wanted the tech for even more controlled combustion without asking more money from customer(use of Fi)
Triple spark plug isn't a perfect replacement fo Fi but it goes a long way.

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Like I said, if you guys find a bike having better specs than this then I'll rest my case.

Re: Need suggestion

Well, I'd hate to turn this thread into a discussion about 200NS since it is P180 ownership thread, but let me just say that the FE gains of P200NS is due to the skinny rear tire, have you seen any other liquid cooled short stroke engine with such skinny tires? Duke has 150 section tire and a little bit more power and torque and still manages 35 kmpl if ridden sanely. Another example is FZ16, despite being a 14 BHP 150 cc motor it sports 140 section rear tire, thus having low FE.

I have PM'd you, we should take this discussion somewhere else. BTW we are talking about 2 different sides of the same coin I think, you are talking about DTSI in general and I'm talking about the P200NS specifically, it does not have a BCU.

Re: Need suggestion

You're right I'm talking about DTSi and triple spark in general. In concept, dtsi and 3 spark are same. P200ns has three spark plugs because it has super fat bore and only two sparks might not have worked with this.

Before letting dust to settle on this let me say this was a healthy discussion. No personal bashing here. I think this is what forums like xbhp are for, total outburst of tech knowledge.

Meanwhile [MENTION=67422]Lakshay Singh[/MENTION]: who was the trigger of this discussion has reverted back to P180 kit and now he is sitting on sofa eating popcorns blowing cops in GTA5.

Re: Need suggestion

@lockhrt999 and @Cleaner sirs please include me in your knowledgeable discussions as well and make me your "shishya" so that I too can learn about the engines and stuff and I like to get my hands dirty irrespective of the intensity of dirt coz It rarely happens that we get to interact with people like you (both) who are really knowledgeable and down to earth (its seen in your posts, the language you use... ) and hats off and claps to the way you've sorted out this matter, talking like Educated Adults and matured people sharing knowledge and understanding things coz I have read posts here itself where people are like "bahar milna zara... ham phir toka dikhaib ki ham kaun ba..." (referential context U.P. Ishtyle...)

I don't understand why people don't understand that its a place to share thoughts, ideas, knowledge, help and grow... ELEMENTARY Stuff...!!!

Its really commendable that the knowledge you both possess, especially you @lockhrt999, had I been living in any of the same towns as you, I would have taken regular tuitions from either of you or both would be best...

SO Guruji Guruji Kakshayein kab se chalu hain...???

Cheers to Knowledge and Education... and of course P180 (how can we forget her...)