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**AkshayA** · 04-17-2015, 05:37 PM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Originally posted by krish2778 View Post

That is an insane amount of oil getting evaporated.
Did you have a look into the coolant level ? Is it terribly low ? For oil to evaporate the engine must have been working at a very high temperature, but 400ml ? That is too much, do keep tabs on the oil level for a few days, vary the riding style , and check for drop in levels.
If it still happens, then you should inspect the engine for any valve/ piston ring related damages. Yes I did read about the no smoke on revving part, doesn't matter, it's better to reach to the bottom of the issue first.

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

Exactly. The 400ml level is alarming. Though the coolant level is fine, but what could be the possible cause of such evaporation, piston ring wearing out?, apart from engine working out too much, anything else that comes to mind?

Thank you!

Akshay

**krish2778** · 04-17-2015, 05:43 PM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Originally posted by AkshayA View Post

Exactly. The 400ml level is alarming. Though the coolant level is fine, but what could be the possible cause of such evaporation, piston ring wearing out, apart from engine working out too much? Anything else that comes to mind?

Thank you!

Akshay

Piston ring wearing out would causing oil blow-by, where the oil gets burned and the oil will look almost fully charcoal black when drained and it would have lost all it's viscosity.

During the initial phase you will not find any white smoke being emmited, the only way to find out is to inspect the drained oil, far a heavy duty trip anyway the oil would be fully taxed on so i guess here it cannot be taken as a primary symptom.
But i guess if you face big level drop in oil again, then it's time to drain it out , check for the burned characteristic and then go ahead and inspect the bore for scuff marks.

If the bike is within warranty, then you are saved otherwise you might have to pay some heavy bill amount.

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

**AkshayA** · 04-17-2015, 05:52 PM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Originally posted by krish2778 View Post

Piston ring wearing out would causing oil blow-by, where the oil gets burned and the oil will look almost fully charcoal black when drained and it would have lost all it's viscosity.

During the initial phase you will not find any white smoke being emmited, the only way to find out is to inspect the drained oil, far a heavy duty trip anyway the oil would be fully taxed on so i guess here it cannot be taken as a primary symptom.
But i guess if you face big level drop in oil again, then it's time to drain it out , check for the burned characteristic and then go ahead and inspect the bore for scuff marks.

If the bike is within warranty, then you are saved otherwise you might have to pay some heavy bill amount.

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

Right, thank you for the insights, the bike will be going in for service tomorrow, will check the drained out oil.

Cheers
Akshay

**Jon Niranjan Paul** · 04-17-2015, 08:52 PM

Re: Exhaust upgrade for a CBR250.

Any suggestions guys?

**B7ACKTHORN** · 04-17-2015, 10:35 PM

Re: Exhaust upgrade for a CBR250.

Originally posted by AkshayA View Post

Hello Guys, the oil level when checked on my friend's CBR was surprisingly low. The bike was taken on a 9 day long ride covering 3000Kms, all plains (Rajasthan) and was serviced just before that.

Other than that the bike is very less often used in the city and is parked in garage. There are no signs of oil leakage of any sorts, neither we noticed any oil seepage from engine head.

Took it to the service center, the mechanic as usual was clueless, but to be on the safer side, we purchased a new bottle and topped up the oil. It took nearly 400ml.

Now the question is that, is it normal for the engine oil being consumed? It comes as a surprise to us. And even if the engine oil is being consumed, 400ml in just 3000Kms?

Is it a normal behavior? Or is something wrong?

I am attaching the image of engine oil level, barely any. Any help would be appreciated.

P.S - There is no white/black smoke coming out of the exhaust, on revving it hard too.

Oil evaporation may perhaps likely to be the cause. Excess heat and improper oil grade, or improper (recommended ML) oil fill-in in the first case -- since you've mentioned oil was replaced before the ride, perhaps that can be taken into consideration. I reckon you haven't observed any oil leaks in and around the head and the oil filter area if they aren't torqued properly, they do weep.

If you don't observe any smoke during cold starts or when the motorcycle is on the move, irrespective of what throttle you're at, then we can at least strike out faulty rings. My suggestion would be to drain the oil, oil filter, replace the gaskets necessary for an oil change, and top it up with a fresh charge of good quality synthetic oil like, Motul and Shell.

Originally posted by Jon Niranjan Paul View Post

Any suggestions guys?

I don't really know who has a COBRA or Yoshi on their exhaust near your viccnity, but personally my preference would be Yoshi, they sound a lot better than the LV, just my personal summation. Also the way the Yoshi is designed blends in well with the bike, as opposed to Cobra. If I had the moolah I would go for the Yoshi eyes closed.

Cheers!
VJ

**rbhasin11** · 04-17-2015, 10:52 PM

Re: Exhaust upgrade for a CBR250.

Originally posted by krish2778 View Post

Piston ring wearing out would causing oil blow-by, where the oil gets burned and the oil will look almost fully charcoal black when drained and it would have lost all it's viscosity.

During the initial phase you will not find any white smoke being emmited, the only way to find out is to inspect the drained oil, far a heavy duty trip anyway the oil would be fully taxed on so i guess here it cannot be taken as a primary symptom.
But i guess if you face big level drop in oil again, then it's time to drain it out , check for the burned characteristic and then go ahead and inspect the bore for scuff marks.

If the bike is within warranty, then you are saved otherwise you might have to pay some heavy bill amount.

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

Originally posted by AkshayA View Post

Right, thank you for the insights, the bike will be going in for service tomorrow, will check the drained out oil.

Cheers
Akshay

Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post

Oil evaporation may perhaps likely to be the cause. Excess heat and improper oil grade, or improper (recommended ML) oil fill-in in the first case -- since you've mentioned oil was replaced before the ride, perhaps that can be taken into consideration. I reckon you haven't observed any oil leaks in and around the head and the oil filter area if they aren't torqued properly, they do weep.

If you don't observe any smoke during cold starts or when the motorcycle is on the move, irrespective of what throttle you're at, then we can at least strike out faulty rings. My suggestion would be to drain the oil, oil filter, replace the gaskets necessary for an oil change, and top it up with a fresh charge of good quality synthetic oil like, Motul and Shell.

Cheers!
VJ

The bike in question is mine. Thanks to Akshay (@AkshayA) for putting up the post for me.

The bike had performed flawlessly over the 3000 kms ride in December and I hadn't noticed any change in the bike's performance when I realised that the oil level was so low, but took it to the nearest ASC (where i've got the last 2 services done) to get it checked. The engineer had no idea why it was happening and kept saying that its normal behaviour. Unconvinced at his ignorant response, we topped up the oil (about 400ml) and kept an eye on the bike's behaviour and the performance over a 100km long ride the next day but there was nothing to complain about. As Akshay said, there was no smoke from the exhaust and the bike riding normally at different RPM/speeds.

I'm getting the 3rd free service done tomorrow and will get a detailed checkup done, as advised by you. Will keep you posted of the developments.

Anything in particular that should be kept in mind for the 3rd service? The bike has done 9700 kms.

**Jon Niranjan Paul** · 04-17-2015, 11:06 PM

Re: Exhaust upgrade for a CBR250.

Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post

I don't really know who has a COBRA or Yoshi on their exhaust near your viccnity, but personally my preference would be Yoshi, they sound a lot better than the LV, just my personal summation. Also the way the Yoshi is designed blends in well with the bike, as opposed to Cobra. If I had the moolah I would go for the Yoshi eyes closed.

Cheers!
VJ

Yep, i liked the Yoshi too

, but coming to the usability part, does the ECU have to be reprogrammed to adjust the FI, since this would be a free flow exhaust? Waitin on a bonus at work, hence the sudden surge of moolah!

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by B7ACKTHORN View Post

I don't really know who has a COBRA or Yoshi on their exhaust near your viccnity, but personally my preference would be Yoshi, they sound a lot better than the LV, just my personal summation. Also the way the Yoshi is designed blends in well with the bike, as opposed to Cobra. If I had the moolah I would go for the Yoshi eyes closed.

Cheers!
VJ

Yep, i liked the Yoshi too

, but coming to the usability part, does the ECU have to be reprogrammed to adjust the FI, since this would be a free flow exhaust? Waitin on a bonus at work, hence the sudden surge of moolah!

**shv18** · 04-18-2015, 12:10 AM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Originally posted by Jon Niranjan Paul View Post

Hey guys! I've been riding a CBR250 for about 4 years now, and am getting pretty bored with the exhaust note. Planning to go in for an exhaust upgrade. Checked out the Leo Vince cobra and the yoshimura. I love the way the cobra sounds and looks, but also like the way the yoshimura peaks! In a dilemma now, could any owners shed some light on both? And since these exhausts are typically free flow ones, does the ecu need to remapped to adjust the FI?
P.S: I live in Chennai, and got no clue where ECU remaps are done.

TIA!

Hi,

pardon me for butting in.. Before you opt for any kind of after market exhaust know this: As far as a the regulations are concerned, any exhaust which is not approved by ARAI and the RTO is subjected to be considered an illegal modification and you may get pulled in by a traffic cop for no apparent reason. The legal decibel limit for exhausts in india is 85 DB and all free flow exhausts without a Decibel killer/muffler will surpass that quite easily. I would suggest you trouble our very own senior rider and moderator @psr sir from Chennai to confirm this before taking a plunge into this world.

If you feel that is not much of a concern in your locality then you may opt for Slip On exhausts instead of going for Full exhaust system as you are only after an exhaust note. Slip On exhausts usually require no alteration with the fuelling as the stock closed loop ECU on a CBR can compensate for 5-8% variations.

The range of options you can look at from Slip On exhaust:

1) Akrapovic Slip-On
2) Yoshimura Slip-On
3) Leo Vince Gp Cobra Slip-On
4) Two Brothers Slip-On

Personally, i prefer the sound of the Yoshimura and then Akrapovic. However, know this: having a loud exhaust and especially if you are touring long distances will tire you out quickly due to harmonics and plain old noise from your vehicle. I believe @krish2778 can throw a light on this one with his extensive usage of FF exhausts on his earlier vehicle: Pulsar 220.

Originally posted by AkshayA View Post

Hello Guys, the oil level when checked on my friend's CBR was surprisingly low. The bike was taken on a 9 day long ride covering 3000Kms, all plains (Rajasthan) and was serviced just before that.

Other than that the bike is very less often used in the city and is parked in garage. There are no signs of oil leakage of any sorts, neither we noticed any oil seepage from engine head.
Took it to the service center, the mechanic as usual was clueless, but to be on the safer side, we purchased a new bottle and topped up the oil. It took nearly 400ml.
Now the question is that, is it normal for the engine oil being consumed? It comes as a surprise to us. And even if the engine oil is being consumed, 400ml in just 3000Kms?

Is it a normal behavior? Or is something wrong?
I am attaching the image of engine oil level, barely any. Any help would be appreciated.
P.S - There is no white/black smoke coming out of the exhaust, on revving it hard too.

400 ml consumption is quite unusual and something to be concerned of. But before we start pointing fingers at your CBR; the first thing i would personally do is confirm:

* Did the SVC guys actually fill right amount of oil in the vehicle during the last service?
* Was the fresh oil filled right in front of you or you left the bike for servicing and later collected it from them? A lot of times SVCs do goof up and sometimes few of them don't even replace the oil and hand over the vehicle to you while they happily bill you for the engine oil and the oil filter. Such SVCs are famous con artists and later retract the statement when confronted with proof.
* Did you use OEM recommended Honda FS oil or went for some other oil from brands like Castrol??

If there are no signs of any fumes or bluish smoke from the exhaust after the engine has been warmed up properly then my suspicion will be with the last service. Personally i would recommend using the Shell FS oil instead of OEM Honda FS oil. Both cost more or less same but Shell has proven to be superior with CBR engines and there are plenty of stuff written about on this thread a while ago.

If you constantly keep the engine of your vehicle on the boil (redline) then after a long distance ride some amount of consumption is considered normal. However, 400 ml is not! Like others have suggested, try looking at all the possibilities before opening up the engine for inspection.

Hope this helps

Cheers,

**krish2778** · 04-18-2015, 12:23 AM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Originally posted by shv18 View Post

Hi,

Personally, i prefer the sound of the Yoshimura and then Akrapovic. However, know this: having a loud exhaust and especially if you are touring long distances will tire you out quickly due to harmonics and plain old noise from your vehicle. I believe @krish2778 can throw a light on this one with his extensive usage of FF exhausts on his earlier vehicle: Pulsar 220.

400 ml consumption is quite unusual and something to be concerned of. But before we start pointing fingers at your CBR; the first thing i would personally do is confirm:

* Did the SVC guys actually filll the right amount of oil in the vehicle during the last service?
* Was the fresh oil filled right in front of you or you left the bike for servicing and later collected it from them? A lot of times SVCs do goof up and sometimes few of them don't even replace the oil and hand over the vehicle to you while they happily bill you for the engine oil and the oil filter. Such SVCs are famous con artists and later retract the statement when confronted with proof.
* Did you use OEM recommended Honda FS oil or went for some other oil from brands like Castrol??

If there are no signs of any fumes or blueish smoke from the exhaust after the engine has been warmed up properly then my suspicion will be with the last service. Personally i would recommend using the Shell FS oil instead of OEM Honda FS oil. Both cost more or less same but Shell has proven to be superior with CBR engines and there are plenty of stuff written about on this thread a while ago.

If you constantly keep the engine of your vehicle on the boil (redline) then after a long distance ride some amount of consumption is considered normal. However, 400 ml is not! Like others have suggested, try looking at all the possibilities before opening up the engine for inspection.

Hope this helps

Cheers,

Oh yes, Free flow exhausts and touring don't go well, they become very very irritating and causes more fatigue (not kidding) at a shorter span. And Yoshimuras are known to be badass when it comes to loudness..!! So it might be best to think again about that. [MENTION=66157]Jon Niranjan Paul[/MENTION]

Yes, the previous service is the right place to start the search from [MENTION=68900]rbhasin11[/MENTION]

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by shv18 View Post

Hi,

Personally, i prefer the sound of the Yoshimura and then Akrapovic. However, know this: having a loud exhaust and especially if you are touring long distances will tire you out quickly due to harmonics and plain old noise from your vehicle. I believe @krish2778 can throw a light on this one with his extensive usage of FF exhausts on his earlier vehicle: Pulsar 220.

400 ml consumption is quite unusual and something to be concerned of. But before we start pointing fingers at your CBR; the first thing i would personally do is confirm:

* Did the SVC guys actually filll the right amount of oil in the vehicle during the last service?
* Was the fresh oil filled right in front of you or you left the bike for servicing and later collected it from them? A lot of times SVCs do goof up and sometimes few of them don't even replace the oil and hand over the vehicle to you while they happily bill you for the engine oil and the oil filter. Such SVCs are famous con artists and later retract the statement when confronted with proof.
* Did you use OEM recommended Honda FS oil or went for some other oil from brands like Castrol??

If there are no signs of any fumes or blueish smoke from the exhaust after the engine has been warmed up properly then my suspicion will be with the last service. Personally i would recommend using the Shell FS oil instead of OEM Honda FS oil. Both cost more or less same but Shell has proven to be superior with CBR engines and there are plenty of stuff written about on this thread a while ago.

If you constantly keep the engine of your vehicle on the boil (redline) then after a long distance ride some amount of consumption is considered normal. However, 400 ml is not! Like others have suggested, try looking at all the possibilities before opening up the engine for inspection.

Hope this helps

Cheers,

Oh yes, Free flow exhausts and touring don't go well, they become very very irritating and causes more fatigue (not kidding) at a shorter span. And Yoshimuras are known to be badass when it comes to loudness..!! So it might be best to think again about that. [MENTION=66157]Jon Niranjan Paul[/MENTION]

Yes, the previous service is the right place to start the search from [MENTION=68900]rbhasin11[/MENTION]

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

**New guy** · 04-18-2015, 12:27 AM

Re: Exhaust upgrade for a CBR250.

Originally posted by rbhasin11 View Post

The bike in question is mine. Thanks to Akshay (@AkshayA) for putting up the post for me.
......
The bike had performed flawlessly over the 3000 kms ride in
Anything in particular that should be kept in mind for the 3rd service? The bike has done 9700 kms.

I've experienced some oil consumption once when I was covering around 90+ kms a day for around a week.
It wasn't anywhere around 400 ml though. I topped up the oil and went on a 265 kms ride the next day.
There were no issues during the ride and I drained the oil after the ride.

I didn't notice any white smoke or valve clatter and fuel efficiency was @35 kpl at that time. So I guess a little oil consumption is normal under heavy usage.

Just check if you've overfilled the oil as it may cause unnecessary issues.

**Jon Niranjan Paul** · 04-18-2015, 12:48 AM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Hi [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION]

I would encourage you and senior riders to butt in at all costs

! Yep, I'm aware of the ARAI specs, and the cops in TN are prone to be a tad aggressive too. The issue with touring also stands true, I had the chance to ride a Duke 390 with Akra exhausts for sometime on the ecr. Alright! Ditch the exhaust then, start a savings account for a 650!

Thanks for the inputs guys, really helped a lot! [MENTION=11348]krish[/MENTION]2118 Thanks man!

**rbhasin11** · 04-18-2015, 12:49 AM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Originally posted by shv18 View Post

Hi,

400 ml consumption is quite unusual and something to be concerned of. But before we start pointing fingers at your CBR; the first thing i would personally do is confirm:

* Did the SVC guys actually fill right amount of oil in the vehicle during the last service?
* Was the fresh oil filled right in front of you or you left the bike for servicing and later collected it from them? A lot of times SVCs do goof up and sometimes few of them don't even replace the oil and hand over the vehicle to you while they happily bill you for the engine oil and the oil filter. Such SVCs are famous con artists and later retract the statement when confronted with proof.
* Did you use OEM recommended Honda FS oil or went for some other oil from brands like Castrol??

If there are no signs of any fumes or bluish smoke from the exhaust after the engine has been warmed up properly then my suspicion will be with the last service. Personally i would recommend using the Shell FS oil instead of OEM Honda FS oil. Both cost more or less same but Shell has proven to be superior with CBR engines and there are plenty of stuff written about on this thread a while ago.

If you constantly keep the engine of your vehicle on the boil (redline) then after a long distance ride some amount of consumption is considered normal. However, 400 ml is not! Like others have suggested, try looking at all the possibilities before opening up the engine for inspection.

Hope this helps

Cheers,

Originally posted by krish2778 View Post

Yes, the previous service is the right place to start the search from [MENTION=68900]rbhasin11[/MENTION]

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

I got the last service done while I was around the bike. I'm 90% sure the engineer put in the oil from a new sealed bottle. 10%-now that you've mentioned, the doubt has crept in.

I don't redline the engine while riding. Most of my gearshifts are between 6-7k RPM. While I do tend to push it to 8.5k, that's very rare.

Do Motul/Shell engine oils comply with Honda's warranty guidelines?

**B7ACKTHORN** · 04-18-2015, 12:57 AM

Re: Exhaust upgrade for a CBR250.

Originally posted by rbhasin11 View Post

The bike had performed flawlessly over the 3000 kms ride in December and I hadn't noticed any change in the bike's performance when I realised that the oil level was so low, but took it to the nearest ASC (where i've got the last 2 services done) to get it checked. The engineer had no idea why it was happening and kept saying that its normal behaviour. Unconvinced at his ignorant response, we topped up the oil (about 400ml) and kept an eye on the bike's behaviour and the performance over a 100km long ride the next day but there was nothing to complain about. As Akshay said, there was no smoke from the exhaust and the bike riding normally at different RPM/speeds.

I'm getting the 3rd free service done tomorrow and will get a detailed checkup done, as advised by you. Will keep you posted of the developments.

Anything in particular that should be kept in mind for the 3rd service? The bike has done 9700 kms.

No problem. First off, nothing much to keep in mind for the 3rd service, make sure what is mentioned in the manual is followed, most of the times, it's dermal check up, apart from the basic stuffs, unless and until there is necessity to do so. For now, I'd recommend you to keep an eye on your oil level, and make sure the current refill is done in the way specified in manual. And also make sure the correct ML of oil is used for filling in.

Originally posted by Jon Niranjan Paul View Post

Yep, i liked the Yoshi too

, but coming to the usability part, does the ECU have to be reprogrammed to adjust the FI, since this would be a free flow exhaust? Waitin on a bonus at work, hence the sudden surge of moolah!

The ECU reprogramming part, kinda of an yes and a no. The ECU like all else has parameters stored for each and every single data point that is stored, resetting makes this re-learning easier, else it will learn itself, but will probably take a little extra time than usual.

For starters perhaps, you can try the following, install the slip on, when the engine is cold, start the motor, idle the bike for 15-20 without any throttle inputs whatsoever. Then switch it off, let it cool down, and then start the engine, and rev it to the redline just a few seconds for to to three times, this is believed to help learn the ECU to the new exhaust. But first, install them and see how it fares, how the performance is, usually slip-ons don't really require a ECU reset, unless and until the full system is replaced. But this is just my personal viewpoint.

Cheers!
VJ

**krish2778** · 04-18-2015, 12:59 AM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Originally posted by rbhasin11 View Post

I got the last service done while I was around the bike. I'm 90% sure the engineer put in the oil from a new sealed bottle. 10%-now that you've mentioned, the doubt has crept in.

I don't redline the engine while riding. Most of my gearshifts are between 6-7k RPM. While I do tend to push it to 8.5k, that's very rare.

Do Motul/Shell engine oils comply with Honda's warranty guidelines?

Well this is getting interesting,
the long ride through such a hot condition also is running around in my mind, but i think if the level is dropping again, you should get towards the svc and get the engine checked.

Have heard same comment from many many people, oil and warranty, I have never faced such a problem, they usually just fill it no questions asked when i give oil. Once fro bajaj i did have this problem but then i asked them to provide it in writing and they came to tunes.

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

**shv18** · 04-18-2015, 01:00 AM

Re: Engine Oil Vanishing!

Originally posted by rbhasin11 View Post

I got the last service done while I was around the bike. I'm 90% sure the engineer put in the oil from a new sealed bottle. 10%-now that you've mentioned, the doubt has crept in. I don't redline the engine while riding. Most of my gearshifts are between 6-7k RPM. While I do tend to push it to 8.5k, that's very rare.

Do Motul/Shell engine oils comply with Honda's warranty guidelines?

No manufacturer can claim void on warranty unless you have gone beyond the recommendation of the oil grade from Honda for the CBR 250R. If you still have doubts, retrace all the bills and any documents or user manual that came with your vehicle and see if Honda specifically mentions that unless you use on Honda oil your warranty will be void. If this is something you got from your Local Honda dealer: know this.. it is a simple scare tactic used by them to keep you hooked to purchase oil from their stock so that they make money from you. Stock oil grade recommendation is 10W 30 whereas Shell FS comes with 10W 40 grade. So it is more or less within the specs. Plus, if you look at the MSDS data sheet on Shell's website, the FS oil comes with ZDDP which is a very good friction reducing agent thus increasing the life of the engine by a great margin. One more reason to opt for that oil.

Senior rider @aargee has been running his "CPR" (as he fondly calls it!!) on Shell FS oil diet for more than 50k kms i believe and he has nothing but praise for that oil. Besides Dr. Arnob gupta, @aargee is one of the few only riders i know of who have covered from top to bottom, east to west of India while extensively touring with their CBR 250R...so i believe their opinion counts.

Cheers,

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