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Honda CBR 250R

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  • #9781
    Originally posted by psr View Post
    Thanks again for the 600/1000 RR C-ABS review....They are Technically different from the 250R's...
    No thanks or sorry as we are all learning from it (Rather, we have learned a much more from you)
    I know both the systems are technically (or specifically) different, but the principle of 'C-ABS' should be the same throughout right?

    There is a lot of confusion about this. This same things were discussed to death in the CBR launch thread and there was the same confusion.
    You gotta risk it.. to get da biscuit !!!

    Comment

    • #9782
      Originally posted by MeTaL_MaNiaC View Post
      No thanks or sorry as we are all learning from it (Rather, we have learned a much more from you)
      I know both the systems are technically (or specifically) different, but the principle of 'C-ABS' should be the same throughout right?

      There is a lot of confusion about this. This same things were discussed to death in the CBR launch thread and there was the same confusion.
      I am now more concerned about Honda's design considerations of ABS in 600/1000 RR...
      In both the bikes the ABS system has the final say as far as braking is concerned.....both bike engines are screaming performers, and brakes should be absolutely top notch and reliable..
      In both bike the braking works by sensing the brake lever pressure through a sensor,and actuating Servo pumps/motors to brake..for both wheels. The lever pressure does not directly actuate the brakes,but through an Electronic Servo Circuit, which is dependent on battery...
      If the main battery fuse blows, the pressure sensor misbehaves,the Servo Motor gets stuck,or the connectors develop loose contact....all of which are real world situations, then there will be nil brake ,and it will be "Good bye Cruel World" for the Rider.......
      Honda fire blade ABS systems had already caused many problems in the past and many bikes called back for replacement of ABS ECU...hope history does not repeat itself......
      When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

      Comment

      • #9783
        Originally posted by psr View Post
        Honda fire blade ABS systems had already caused many problems in the past and many bikes called back for replacement of ABS ECU...hope history does not repeat itself......
        IIRC there were/are standby ECU's for the same purpose. And you're welcome I save a lot of links related to tech that my bookmarks are full lol
        Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.

        Comment

        • #9784
          Originally posted by Nithesh View Post
          IIRC there were/are standby ECU's for the same purpose. And you're welcome I save a lot of links related to tech that my bookmarks are full lol
          There are no stand by ECUs in any vehicle...in fact when customers have problem with it, it is left with ASC and have to wait till it is fixed..it is the same anywhere in the world.
          When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

          Comment

          • #9785
            Originally posted by MeTaL_MaNiaC View Post
            Did you read the info on the link you just posted? It mentions exactly the same thing i mentioned.
            Some highlights from the link above:
            '' Application of the rear brake does not engage the front brake until the electronic controller senses rear wheel locking. It's only when the rear brake begins to lock, that the brake pressure is transferred to the front wheel. This allows the rider to use therear brake as a normal non-linked brake for superior control during high speed riding, specially during track days, as this does not come in between the suspension settings and steering control.
            On the other hand, when the rider tries to use the front brake,the electronic control senses if the front brake has been applied. Once the electronic control senses that the front brake has been applied, the braking force is distributed automatically between the front and the rear brakes and boththe brakes are modulated on activation and subsequent release for accurate braking and to provide the most outstanding Super Sport motorcycling.''


            Does that clear up the doubts?
            I guess this one is correct !!

            Still i say that ABS starts working right from the vehicle is in motion, this is what the difference between C-ABS from other ABS.

            I was thinking on your these statements:
            Originally posted by MeTaL_MaNiaC View Post
            the CBR250r has a C-ABS and not just ABS. AFAIK, in c-abs, pressing just the rear brake does not trigger the abs unit until and unless it senses a rear wheel lock, and only after that, the unit kicks in activating the front brakes and modulating both brakes accordingly. If you press the front brake lever, it works like normal abs.
            Originally posted by aargee View Post
            Sir...what is this???? Sorry & things???

            My experience with ABS was very limited when we rode through Panathur to Bhagamandal; one stretch was dense forest, yes FOREST with rocks as side walls & very wet road. sayhi2sai was generous to let his Galfer fitted ABS ride on this stretch & the experience was totally amazing, total confidence & sheer brilliance. Only thing is one has to get used to that "tick tick" noise when ABS kicks in & shouldn't panic to release (and I did that few times ) the brake.
            Yes very True!!

            Originally posted by aargee View Post
            Aaha...Tks to you as well Ji

            OT - Time & again who the hell is rating this thread poor but refuses to show up the reason? It was rated 4.52 this morning by 75 votes, last 2 jokers whoever rated it poor is not stating the reason due to which is 77/4.45 now. Why this kolaveri? Why not come forward to share what needs to be improved instead of hiding your cowardly face? Be a man!!!
            ...lol...

            To that Spy or Some Terrorist!!

            Why the hell are you rating this thread poor, any specific reasons?? This is one of the best ownership thread!!

            R15 V1 use to be high rated thread earlier but now it's in hybernation modes sometimes!!!!...
            Last edited by Guest; 08-08-2012, 12:16 AM.

            Comment

            • #9786
              Originally posted by psr View Post
              If the main battery fuse blows, the pressure sensor misbehaves,the Servo Motor gets stuck,or the connectors develop loose contact....all of which are real world situations, then there will be nil brake ,and it will be "Good bye Cruel World" for the Rider.......
              From the same link:
              You gotta risk it.. to get da biscuit !!!

              Comment

              • #9787
                Originally posted by MeTaL_MaNiaC View Post
                From the same link:
                It is good on paper...to do self diagnostics, or to actuate solenoids to open valves, there should be power to the system....I would like to recollect A specific complaint by a Xbhp member last year with his Honda fireblade ABS...The bike used to work well for some time, and suddenly the battery would go flat,... which will be charged by ASC and given back.After a few repeats in quick session, a New battery was fixed and after some days again suddenly the bike would have a flat battery...the engine ECU was changed ,and once the ABS ECU was also changed...after this the bike ran well for two months,and again started having repeat problem....Once the bike stalled and totally stopped at a signal,and was again taken to the ASC....After threat of legal action Finally Honda Japan acknowledged that it was a design problem with ABS ECU ,and replaced the same,with a new design...... for the first year of ownership the 14 lakhs bike was at the ASC most of the time... and bike hardly used for a few weeks....that too with fear .
                When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                Comment

                • #9788
                  Originally posted by psr View Post
                  Ok sorry..the pics I had did not clearly show the rear slotted disc and hence thought there is no rear wheel lock sense....my bad...
                  The CBR 250 ,C-ABS does have sensor for both wheels
                  @Metal_MaNiac and @Aargee Thanks for the knowledge sharing.....
                  Let me clarify few things.
                  The slotted discs on front and rear wheel are not for direct wheel lock sense, but for wheel speed.
                  Wheel lock up sensing needs some referance.
                  What monitored is speed differance in front and rear wheel.
                  The speed differance is the thing, which kicks in the ABS. Thus, in case of bikes, or cars with different front and rear tyres, its clearly specified not to deviate from standard spec tyres.
                  Last edited by nox2505; 08-08-2012, 10:17 AM.
                  There's lot to it other than saddle....


                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • #9789
                    Originally posted by nox2505 View Post
                    Let me clarify few things.
                    The slotted discs on front and rear wheel are not for direct wheel lock sense, but for wheel speed.
                    Wheel lock up sensing needs some referance.
                    What monitored is speed differance in front and rear wheel.
                    The speed differance is the thing, which kicks in the ABS. Thus, in case of bikes, or cars with different front and rear tyres, its clearly specified not to deviate from standard spec tyres.
                    As per Honda, when the front brake is applied,in CBR 250 R, it works on a stand alone mode, and rear wheel rotation is neither monitored nor controlled...only the front wheel rotation is monitored and ABS prevents wheel lock up by sensing the slotted disc pulses,through an Opto Coupler.
                    Last edited by psr; 08-08-2012, 10:44 AM.
                    When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                    Comment

                    • #9790
                      Originally posted by psr View Post
                      As per Honda, when the front brake is applied,in CBR 250 R, it works on a stand alone mode, and rear wheel rotation is neither monitored nor controlled...only the front wheel rotation is monitored and ABS prevents wheel lock up by sensing the slotted disc pulses,through an Opto Coupler.
                      Howz that possible that ABS works for only one tyre??
                      What if rear locks up ?? then it will skid?? and when Front wheel locks up it will be prevented by ABS??
                      We are paying extra 40-50k for one wheel ABS??

                      Still i think this is not correct.. and why will Honda keep two different designs of C ABS ?? one for 250r with one wheel ABS and rest with both..

                      Something is wrong here mate!!

                      Comment

                      • #9791
                        I'll be riding this Sunday with a few folks in CBR club in Chennai; I'll get all this all tested once in for all.

                        1. Apply front brake & rear brake individually to see if ABS kicks in
                        2. Apply both front & rear brake (which we already are aware, but still) together to see if ABS kicks in

                        Ji...pls give me some inputs as what else needs to be tested apart from the above
                        Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                        Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
                        ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

                        Comment

                        • #9792
                          Originally posted by somen1984 View Post
                          Howz that possible that ABS works for only one tyre??
                          What if rear locks up ?? then it will skid?? and when Front wheel locks up it will be prevented by ABS??
                          We are paying extra 40-50k for one wheel ABS??

                          Still i think this is not correct.. and why will Honda keep to different designs of C ABS ?? one for 250r with one wheel ABS and rest with both..

                          Something is wrong here mate!!
                          ABS in any application prevents wheel lock up under hard braking, or braking on slippery surface.
                          From what I understand of what Honda had written on the CBR 250R C-ABS, it works as follows...
                          1. Apply the rear brake lightly,..rear brake alone works..
                          2. Apply hard rear braking, the front brake is also initiated in an attenuated mode..and rear braking is maximum without wheel locking..
                          3. Apply front brake alone, the front brake works independently since the ABS ECU assumes sportive riding.
                          4. Apply Hard front Braking the ABS applies sufficient pressure to front brake pads to bring the bike to a safe stop,WITHOUT wheel Locking.

                          In CBR 600 RR and 1000 RR, the brake lever pressure is applied to a pressure sensor ,which the ABS ECU reads and then uses the info ,to drive Servo pumps which apply brake pressure to the pads for braking.

                          Seniors and knowledgeable members will be able to give better explanation here...
                          When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                          Comment

                          • #9793
                            Originally posted by aargee View Post
                            I'll be riding this Sunday with a few folks in CBR club in Chennai; I'll get all this all tested once in for all.

                            1. Apply front brake & rear brake individually to see if ABS kicks in
                            2. Apply both front & rear brake (which we already are aware, but still) together to see if ABS kicks in

                            Ji...pls give me some inputs as what else needs to be tested apart from the above
                            These sounds better and perfect!! We need this confusion to be cleared!!

                            If it's true that one tyre is monitored for ABS then does RTR too follows the same concept or it is traditional ABS with both wheel monitoring??
                            Will ask this in RTR thread too!!

                            Comment

                            • #9794
                              Originally posted by aargee View Post
                              I'll be riding this Sunday with a few folks in CBR club in Chennai; I'll get all this all tested once in for all.

                              1. Apply front brake & rear brake individually to see if ABS kicks in
                              2. Apply both front & rear brake (which we already are aware, but still) together to see if ABS kicks in

                              Ji...pls give me some inputs as what else needs to be tested apart from the above
                              il be eagerly waiting for your post regarding your experience of ABS braking on Sunday..

                              Comment

                              • #9795
                                Originally posted by aargee View Post
                                I'll be riding this Sunday with a few folks in CBR club in Chennai; I'll get all this all tested once in for all.

                                1. Apply front brake & rear brake individually to see if ABS kicks in
                                2. Apply both front & rear brake (which we already are aware, but still) together to see if ABS kicks in

                                Ji...pls give me some inputs as what else needs to be tested apart from the above
                                Braking feel and distance ,with only front brakes applied,between non ABS and ABS CBRs..
                                hard front braking can cause, lower back tire grip ,and some fish tailing (since Honda says front braking is independent)...to check this try to see if rear wheel can spin in gear on a paddock stand with front brake fully applied..
                                Honda says the best braking is when there is hard rear braking...(since the front brakes are also initiated by C-ABS)..

                                Since these maneuvers are dangerous, to try it,Extreme caution with protective wear and Armour under controlled conditions are essential for safety of rider...
                                When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                                Comment

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