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**satish_patil** · 07-29-2016, 02:52 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by Valkyire View Post

On what basis do you say that?

Gear shifts at higher rpm , lugging and low power.

**JS16** · 07-29-2016, 02:58 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by satish_patil View Post

Gear shifts at higher rpm , lugging and low power.

His bike is new. He needs to understand how the power is delivered. The bike will never shoot like a rocket below 6000RPM anyway. And he's mostly complaining about gearing. Let him get used to it.

**Valkyire** · 07-29-2016, 06:13 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by satish_patil View Post

Gear shifts at higher rpm , lugging and low power.

I didn't know AFR and power were inversely proportional.

**satish_patil** · 07-29-2016, 07:20 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by Valkyire View Post

I didn't know AFR and power were inversely proportional.

Do you mean to say, it is directly proportional and richer mixture will give you higher power ? And if you go on making the mixture richer and richer, at a certain point your bike will have power matching higher capacity bikes ? It will not, right ?

Neither AFR, nor "rich mixture" (which you wrote before editing the post) is inversely proportional. It may be directly proportional but only up to ideal mixture and not beyond that. It's just that maximum power is produced at ideal / stoichiometric mixture. Anything marginally richer or leaner will result in lesser power. You may check different sources online for that.

My previous answer was based on my past experiences and I have had enough problems with AFR in the past while trying to correct it.

**aditya.prasanna** · 07-29-2016, 10:12 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

[MENTION=76522]JS16[/MENTION] I don't think its problem with gearshift technique, because previously it was doing great. Before the 2nd service I told the SVC about the problem, but they haven't done anything. Yeah agree, max power lies in higher power band.

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Originally posted by satish_patil View Post

Do you mean to say, it is directly proportional and richer mixture will give you higher power ? And if you go on making the mixture richer and richer, at a certain point your bike will have power matching higher capacity bikes ? It will not, right ?

Neither AFR, nor "rich mixture" (which you wrote before editing the post) is inversely proportional. It may be directly proportional but only up to ideal mixture and not beyond that. It's just that maximum power is produced at ideal / stoichiometric mixture. Anything marginally richer or leaner will result in lesser power. You may check different sources online for that.

My previous answer was based on my past experiences and I have had enough problems with AFR in the past while trying to correct it.

Thank you for the valuable information. I'll get it tuned by a local mechanic (I don't trust SVC ). One more doubt why does Apache lug at low speeds in higher gear?

**satish_patil** · 07-30-2016, 12:05 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by aditya.prasanna View Post

Thank you for the valuable information. I'll get it tuned by a local mechanic (I don't trust SVC ). One more doubt why does Apache lug at low speeds in higher gear?

Lugging can happen with any bike running in higher gear at lower rpm/speeds. But what you are facing is due to improper AFR. I too have faced this.

Make sure you go to a good local mechanic. They too can be equally bad as SVCs.

Happy riding brother. Ride safe.

**Mr_Many_Places** · 07-30-2016, 01:45 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by aditya.prasanna View Post

Guys I have completed 2000km+ on my TVS Apache RTR180 ABS, second service has been done 10days back. Have followed the run-in i.e. riding under 50kmph till 1000km. I have been facing few problems lately.
Please help me out on the above issues.

Brother try shifting@4k rpm in each gear. Do look if u are having the correct afr. Free the engine a bit. Hit 100 gradually & come down in the same manner. Ur bike is new it will open up. Usually our rtr's are quite lively in the 4-6k rpm.

**somesht3** · 07-30-2016, 12:08 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Switched to Motul 7100 10w50 FS from Shell Advance Ultra 10w40.
Bike and gearshifts are smooth af, exhaust note is crispy but acceleration i can feel is not better then while using shell.

Attached Files

**JS16** · 07-30-2016, 01:57 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by satish_patil View Post

Do you mean to say, it is directly proportional and richer mixture will give you higher power ? And if you go on making the mixture richer and richer, at a certain point your bike will have power matching higher capacity bikes ? It will not, right ?

Neither AFR, nor "rich mixture" (which you wrote before editing the post) is inversely proportional. It may be directly proportional but only up to ideal mixture and not beyond that. It's just that maximum power is produced at ideal / stoichiometric mixture. Anything marginally richer or leaner will result in lesser power. You may check different sources online for that.

My previous answer was based on my past experiences and I have had enough problems with AFR in the past while trying to correct it.

Let me make a few clarifications here.
1. I've generally seen people with a new bike thinking that they have a detective product and things like "bike's not pulling and stuff". I myself have done that.
2. And conclusions like check your afr is the easiest which people provide.
3. But nobody enquires that which was the previous motorcycle he had and the motorcycle he's comparing to.
4. Both the motorcycle he has compared too have shorter gearbox ratios. If I'm not wrong they'll do better at lower speeds. Because if I'm not wrong acceleration is directly proportional to speed. So he has higher acceleration but lower speed. His complaint is about less power below certain RPM.
5. I would have taken that into consideration if he said he had no power at 6000RPM and above. But it's clearly visible he needs to understand the bike more than he needs to fix the afr.
6. I'm sure if you give him a Daytona he's gonna ask you the same question, still the solution will be AFR?
No fights intended just clearing the doubts here. Because it's not always AFR.
Regards

**satish_patil** · 07-30-2016, 04:32 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by JS16 View Post

Let me make a few clarifications here.
1. I've generally seen people with a new bike thinking that they have a detective product and things like "bike's not pulling and stuff". I myself have done that.
Well, not everybody will be like you and me. Being on the online forum, we can't be sure whether the person's bike is really having a problem or not. But what we can do is based on the behavior of the bike which he mentions we can provide some solutions. What if there is really an issue ? There is no harm in getting the bike checked from a good mechanic. If there is really an issue, it will get fixed right ?

2. And conclusions like check your afr is the easiest which people provide.
Just because you have heard this conclusion many times doesn't mean everybody is saying it blindly. I have already clarified to Valkyire when asked, on what basis I gave my answer (link here - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...ml#post1245105 ). But what I don't understand is why so much of dragging going on here. This is the 3rd reply quoting me. If you guys don't agree with my reply, ignore it. Just give your perceptions / suggestions / solutions of the problem to the guy asking question and move on.

3. But nobody enquires that which was the previous motorcycle he had and the motorcycle he's comparing to.
When the person himself says " I am not able to feel 17horses lately, there's seems to be loss in power ", we don't have to. It means he is comparing the current state of bike to what he has experienced on the same bike earlier, and not comparing it with other motorcycles.

4. Both the motorcycle he has compared too have shorter gearbox ratios. If I'm not wrong they'll do better at lower speeds. Because if I'm not wrong acceleration is directly proportional to speed. So he has higher acceleration but lower speed. His complaint is about less power below certain RPM.
He said he needs to shift at higher rpm, and experiencing lesser power. Both of these can happen when AFR is not correct.

5. I would have taken that into consideration if he said he had no power at 6000RPM and above. But it's clearly visible he needs to understand the bike more than he needs to fix the afr.
It may be clearly visible for you that he needs to understand the bike. But it was not clearly visible to me that there was no problem with his bike. That is the only reason I suggested him to get his bike checked.

6. I'm sure if you give him a Daytona he's gonna ask you the same question, still the solution will be AFR?
Oh, you're sure he will ask ? And why will my solution be AFR when Daytona is a Fuel-Injected bike ?

No fights intended just clearing the doubts here. Because it's not always AFR.
Your sentence contradicts from your behavior here. Multiple times quoting a person just because of one answer means something. And moreover the post for which you quoted me was not for you. This is enough to show that you and the other guy were either dragging me for a debate or trying to prove me wrong / stupid here.
And AFR issue IS common in carburetted bikes because ignorant and ill-informed mechanics at SVCs try to fiddle with the carburettor during services. It is not very easy to correct it and not many mechanics (local as well as SVCs) are good at it.

Regards

Answers in bold inline. Do check online, the symptoms of improper / wrong AFR in carburetted bikes and you will understand why I replied him saying it may be an AFR issue.

And I'm saying again, if you don't agree on a post, ignore it and move ahead. No point starting a debate just because you don't agree. You give your solutions to the person asking the question and move on. Why keep on doing counter-questions ?

And now I understand why so many knowledgeable people left the forum.

**aditya.prasanna** · 07-30-2016, 05:15 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by satish_patil View Post

Lugging can happen with any bike running in higher gear at lower rpm/speeds. But what you are facing is due to improper AFR. I too have faced this.

Make sure you go to a good local mechanic. They too can be equally bad as SVCs.

Happy riding brother. Ride safe.

Thanks a ton. Will get it checked today.

**JS16** · 07-30-2016, 06:15 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Nevermind. I don't have so much free time to explain each and everything to stubborn people over the forum.

Now you know why they left? I hope you did get the answer from this post! Goodluck with the afr.

**prateek2210** · 07-30-2016, 07:24 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by JS16 View Post

Nevermind. I don't have so much free time to explain each and everything to stubborn people over the forum.

Now you know why they left? I hope you did get the answer from this post! Goodluck with the afr.

First of all if you are calling someone stubborn, notice what you are doing. If you have a problem with the replies or afr in this case, you can just log out or better is to ignore. No point calling someone stubborn and stretching a minor thing.

**satish_patil** · 07-30-2016, 07:30 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Stubborn is you my friend, who is not willing to accept that there might be a possibility of what I said. I have used the words, "seems", "may be" etc, which means it's a possibility. He will get to know problem when he gets the bike checked.

If you really don't have much free time, why did you start the unnecessary conversation in the first place. What a waste of our time, no ?

And yes, whatever reason I thought why people left, is reconfirmed after your reply.

I am done with this conversation now unless otherwise it's dragged further. Hope you have a good day.

**JS16** · 07-30-2016, 09:29 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Nevermind. Meanwhile, have a look at this guys!

TVS Akula Spied Testing For The First Time - **********

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