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**worrisomebear** · 09-10-2013, 02:31 AM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by sinnerz2000 View Post

Ppl do use rimula on their bikes but stick to regular bike oils what's wrong with them?

GK : Dont even try diesel engine oil, thats not intended for karizma

Please stick to Hero oil or Castrol power 1 or relevant MOTUL

**Divya Sharan** · 09-10-2013, 07:53 AM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by g K View Post

Nothing wrong with anything sir. Seeking out some info before trying something.

Question remains unanswered. Can anybody throw some light ? I checked on Shell website but couldnt find this info.

No issues in using Rimula. Many of us have been using the same on our bikes. Engine heating is reduced, FE is unaffected, knocking has gone down too.

Ensure that you change it within 1500 km as its a mineral oil.

**psr** · 09-10-2013, 09:52 AM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Using Rimula R4 had been discussed extensively here, in ZMR and engine oil threads.....all it needs is a little perseverance to get the data...

**g K** · 09-10-2013, 11:19 AM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by worrisomebear View Post

GK : Dont even try diesel engine oil, thats not intended for karizma

Please stick to Hero oil or Castrol power 1 or relevant MOTUL

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

No issues in using Rimula. Many of us have been using the same on our bikes. Engine heating is reduced, FE is unaffected, knocking has gone down too.

Ensure that you change it within 1500 km as its a mineral oil.

Originally posted by psr View Post

Using Rimula R4 had been discussed extensively here, in ZMR and engine oil threads.....all it needs is a little perseverance to get the data...

Yes Sir. I have gone through the discussions and they dont answer my doubt.

What what I wanted to know specifically was whether this oil meets the JASO MA standards ?

**pixantz** · 09-10-2013, 12:16 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by sunny_ View Post

Even today, an un-experienced mechanic asked me to buy a new timing chain, but then I discussed the issue with a senior mechanic, he said it will be okay with just the holder thing.

Lesson: Never conclude/apply things without prior knowledge.

(I've learnt this here on xbhp from my seniors PSR Sir, Arun Sir, SriRam Sir and more...)

Next time, I'm gonna look for all the issues first myself, Drive Chain Link (mentioned by PSR Sir), then tappets, then the cam thing.

The timing chain which comes fitted as OE on Karizmas last long, really long. Unless you've gone through some really bad seizure issue or something... So mainly the culprit works out to be the timing-chain tensioner. Common Zma issue

Sent from my iPhone using xBhp Connect

**pixantz** · 09-10-2013, 12:29 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by g K View Post

What what I wanted to know specifically was whether this oil meets the JASO MA standards ?

The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) has created their own set of performance and quality standards for petrol engines of Japanese origin.

For four-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO T904 standard is used, and is particularly relevant to motorcycle engines. The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are designed to distinguish oils that are approved for wet clutch use, and the JASO T904-MB standard is not suitable for wet clutch use.

For two-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO M345 (FA, FB, FC) standard is used, and this refers particularly to low ash, lubricity, detergency, low smoke and exhaust blocking.

These standards, especially JASO-MA (for motorcycles) and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories. One element of the JASO-MA standard is a friction test designed to determine suitability for wet clutch usage.[18][9] An oil that meets JASO-MA is considered appropriate for wet clutch operations. Oils marketed as motorcycle-specific will carry the JASO-MA label.

So basically you are asking if a diesel engine lubricant meets a petrol engine lubricant (JASO MA)standard. They're both different. In practicality, people do use diesel oils on Zma and its not really scary as in your engine/clutch plates won't fry or blow up or something, but technically you're not meant to use it(the diesel oil). Hope you're happy now.

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**g K** · 09-10-2013, 12:44 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Thankyou so much for answering. Yes I was asking because oil for wet clutch type engines come with added friction additives. Also since ZMA uses same oil for engine and transmission I think. I'll try it sometime in future after I have tried regular motorcycle engine oils.

Which is the best tried and tested engine oil for ZMA? Dont mean to start a long discussion here, just want to know the one that we can stick to and be happy ever after ?

Originally posted by pixantz View Post

The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) has created their own set of performance and quality standards for petrol engines of Japanese origin.

For four-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO T904 standard is used, and is particularly relevant to motorcycle engines. The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are designed to distinguish oils that are approved for wet clutch use, and the JASO T904-MB standard is not suitable for wet clutch use.

For two-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO M345 (FA, FB, FC) standard is used, and this refers particularly to low ash, lubricity, detergency, low smoke and exhaust blocking.

These standards, especially JASO-MA (for motorcycles) and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories. One element of the JASO-MA standard is a friction test designed to determine suitability for wet clutch usage.[18][9] An oil that meets JASO-MA is considered appropriate for wet clutch operations. Oils marketed as motorcycle-specific will carry the JASO-MA label.

So basically you are asking if a diesel engine lubricant meets a petrol engine lubricant (JASO MA)standard. They're both different. In practicality, people do use diesel oils on Zma and its not really scary as in your engine/clutch plates won't fry or blow up or something, but technically you're not meant to use it(the diesel oil). Hope you're happy now.

Sent from my iPhone using xBhp Connect

**AK3D** · 09-10-2013, 01:59 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by g K View Post

Which is the best tried and tested engine oil for ZMA? Dont mean to start a long discussion here, just want to know the one that we can stick to and be happy ever after ?

I'm using R4 too, had a 1000+km trip a couple of months ago, the engine remained cool the entire way. It does not cause the ZMA to blow up.
If you're not keen on using R4, consider Shell AX5, which is very good at the price.
My reason for using R4 is that it contains ZDDP . Another reason is that the R4's molecules do a good job of binding the soot particles, thus ensuring that carbon build up is lower.
All this has been discussed earlier

**Divya Sharan** · 09-10-2013, 02:49 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by g K View Post

Which is the best tried and tested engine oil for ZMA? Dont mean to start a long discussion here, just want to know the one that we can stick to and be happy ever after ?

Shell AX7 10w40 Semi Synth!
VFM at the price point and performs well. Drain intervals - 2.5-3k

BTW, Rimula won't hurt your bike at all. In fact, I know a certain guy who did the run in with Rimula on his CBZ Xtreme and has done 7-8k kms now. He's happy. Mind games! Diesel oil on a bike and blah blah.
Anyways, get yourself AX7 and when you're ready, switch to Rimula.

**g K** · 09-10-2013, 02:56 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by AK3D View Post

I'm using R4 too, had a 1000+km trip a couple of months ago, the engine remained cool the entire way. It does not cause the ZMA to blow up.
If you're not keen on using R4, consider Shell AX5, which is very good at the price.
My reason for using R4 is that it contains ZDDP . Another reason is that the R4's molecules do a good job of binding the soot particles, thus ensuring that carbon build up is lower.
All this has been discussed earlier

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

Shell AX7 10w40 Semi Synth!
VFM at the price point and performs well. Drain intervals - 2.5-3k

BTW, Rimula won't hurt your bike at all. In fact, I know a certain guy who did the run in with Rimula on his CBZ Xtreme and has done 7-8k kms now. He's happy. Mind games! Diesel oil on a bike and blah blah.
Anyways, get yourself AX7 and when you're ready, switch to Rimula.

Thanks

I will keep this in mind.

**Divya Sharan** · 09-10-2013, 03:06 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by g K View Post

Thanks

I will keep this in mind.

AX5 is 15w50 I think. That would be too viscous for ZMA. Need seniors opinion in this.

**worrisomebear** · 09-10-2013, 03:11 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Either stick to hero oil or castrol power 1

If you want synthetic go for motul

Important is drain period of max 1100 Kms with normal mineral oil

**g K** · 09-10-2013, 03:23 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Shell site says this for AX5: Available viscosity grades: SAE J 300 10W-30, 10W-40, 15W-40, 15W-50, 20W-40 and 20W-50

**AK3D** · 09-10-2013, 03:29 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

AX5 is 15w50 I think. That would be too viscous for ZMA. Need seniors opinion in this.

Shell Advance AX5 - Shell Global
It's available in 15W40. I was offered that at the Shell dealership, when I went to purchase R4.
And you're right, AX7 is the one to go for, slightly more expensive, but good.

**g K** · 09-10-2013, 03:43 PM

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Originally posted by AK3D View Post

Shell Advance AX5 - Shell Global
It's available in 15W40. I was offered that at the Shell dealership, when I went to purchase R4.
And you're right, AX7 is the one to go for, slightly more expensive, but good.

15w50 would be more suitable or 20w40 ?

EDIT: Sorry, AX7 is not available in 20w40.

*Available in viscosity grades: SAE J 300 10W-30, 10W-40 and 15W-50*

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