Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Absolutely, bajaja for sure won't play the role of a mere audience, if they price their 400 twins around 1.8-2L, they will create a storm...the competition below 3L will be no doubt very fierce...may be yamaha won't target that section at all and as some of us saying, they will keep r25 out of the mud and in premium section with price >3.2L. But still if I see from business and sales volume point of view, the best combination would be , produce domestically and sale cheap !!!

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

400ss/cs will cost less than ktm Rc390 and Yamaha r25 Will cost less than or equal to rc390 .

Sent while Riding a 10sec bike.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Agree. If the pricing is around 2.5L on road, there's going to be a pretty big dilemma in my mind. Ninja will be striked out of the list easily.
It'll be a battle between the pure supersport package and performance of the RC390 vs the 14000 RPM and reliability of the R25

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

From where did you get this information? Source please

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Its a Big Joke !!

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Ehem. A recent news or rather say speculation. I do not how much true, just sharing what I saw

Yamaha YZF R25 brought to India for INR 2.16 Lakhs - Motoroids.com

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Once again, the perception game playing to increase the post count on this thread. Being a noob, I can only say that people have always perceived Yamaha as reliable and performance oriented. Honda to be extremely reliable and economical. KTMs in the current scenario are the dark horses unreliable and "cash cows" for the SVC, Kawasaki is premium and beyond consideration.

But then, haven't R15s ever developed issues? or for that matter, aren't there Dukes which log thousands of kilometers without missing a beat or breaking a rim? or for that matter, aren't there any Honda machines that might have performed very well?

Forums are fast becoming ranting places and speculations are good as long as there is no perceptive mud slinging. As I said, I'm a noob and probably I'm the only one who thinks that the R25 is just a glorified Ninja 250R (if you can read the specs you would know that it is evolution). I feel that Yamaha might go the CKD way as in Kawasaki with a small change where the body parts and other shared components (between R15 and R25 platforms) being sourced in India to reduce the cost.

Above lines are my personal opinions and no one is bound to agree with them.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

That wont happen, as d390 is priced closely to cbr250 abs, and if we add another 20k for the fairing version, the price of rc390 should not cross 2.3-2.4L, and expecting the r25 priced below that would be hugely impossible optimism

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Apparently that's cargo worth declared on Air-Cargo plane.



OTR or Ex-Showroom price need not necessarily be the same.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

you aren't alone in this thought...I too think so and have said or implied the same a few times in this and the previous R25 thread, in the context of yamaha having the R3 planned for EU/NA which is expected to be a proper supersport because no one there wants yet another beginner level sport touring type bike that's basically just a better or upgraded version of the baby ninjas or cbr250r (as great a deal as that is for us in india, but nonetheless not interesting at all for most europeans who are more into the niche of sportriding) and anyone interested in low cc sportbikes there just wants someone to give them a fairly high revving lightweight supersport 250/300/whatever to be used as a nice little track bike, something at least somewhat reminiscent of the japanese four's high revving 4 cyl 4 stroke 250 racers of the 1990s...hopefully yamaha will do so for them in the form of R3, and hopefully few years down the line the R3 will be made available for india..

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Dude !!! Are you sure? If Yamaha price it in the range of 3L INR, it would be a Harakiri by Yamaha?? I doubt.

Tell me one thing, how many users who really love biking, has spoken highly of Pulsars (talking about the 150s, 180s and the old 200s and excluding the 220s) regarding the quality in all aspect starting from switch gears to engine. The new Pulsars, mostly the NS, are much better than the other models but they are yet to age so can't comment on their long lasting build. Now, you can see old R15s which are still running with the same enthusiasm as it was when taken out of the showroom. Don't you think that this has to do something with the price? Has Yamaha created a 'cheaper' R15, by now the older V1s would have been history. Now you can take FZs. I have a friend who bought a 4 year old FZ from a guy and with an ODO reading of 30k kms. So it has run quite a bit miles respective to a normal commuter. The bike is still behaving as a new FZ would. There are many other examples too on basis of which I guess I am able to make you understand, the quality of a FZ is better than a Pulsar of its range. So coming to your point, you think people to be that much idiot that they're buying Pulsars just because of the ads? No sir !! It's because Pulsar is cheaper to maintain, good power and mileage at affordable price but with not with a long life or performance.

Do you really think Yamaha will target 'aam junta' for R25. I guess not. 'aam junta' might not give a damn about a twin or single but a good rider will, cause only they will know why people drool over a twin compared to a single. I'm not going into comparision with RC cause I don't want the quality of R25 to be like those from KTM/Bajaj stable.

Again you got it wrong. CBR250 has got a really good engine but do you think really that the overall build quality is also too good? Ask any person or mechanic, who has ridden many kms on a CBR or serviced many CBRs, and you'll get the answer. So again I'm not going into comparision with CBR 250.

So you want Yamaha to bring out a bike with the build quality of CBR250 or the other? No we would not like that. We are ready to pay a bit more but want a real well buit bike.

Spot on !!! To gain on the quality front we may have to lose on the price front. But we don't want Yamaha to get more worried about the price but better they take care of how good the bike can be built.

I guess not. Making the CBR a twin pot will not allow Honda to sell it at 2.25L INR.

Then again, it is not targeted at mass. People who have their eyes set will buy it, and I can assure you, that number is not very less.

Yeah. Exactly. You can buy a cheap one but you can't expect it to be both reliable and fast. Else the world would have been a much better place.

Exactly. And Yamaha should never be a part of that rat race. R25 will be priced a bit high maybe but no doubt it will be a well thought of, well rounded, well tested and superior built bike.

Bro !!! What a comparision it was? BTW which 1000 CC 4 cylinder reliable car you can get under 5L INR? I would love to buy that for my family, as I don't have any knowledge about cars. Again coming to bikes, comparing the price of a bike and a car is not correct. I can say that you can get a car of that same config at 15L INR, Fiat 500. So why do you think what has been the difference between these two 1000 CC 4 cylinder cars with a price gap of 10L INR? Same way N300 is coming at 4L INR but a bigger capacity D390 is coming at 2L INR.

I second your statement. I guess R25 will be brought as CKD only for the first one or two years, then Yamaha, on receiving the market response, might start manufacturing it here.

Yes and that too proudly.

Yamaha will price, my bet, R25 as a premium bike only and not to compete for shares from CBR or RC390. People who think about quality and longlasting bikes, will go for R25. Else they have other options as well.

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You're a noob?? Then what are we??? We might be just getting to know what a motorcycle looks like.

I agree but what is the ratio then. People say any product to be bad only bad to good ratio is too high.

Even I guess the same NV sir. Yamaha will bring R25 as a CKD and then on market response they will decide further.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

RC is coming with proven reliability ....right...???

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia


Watching an old timer post, I couldn't resist myself. I am a noob like you too. And even I can say that the R25 is an attempt to make a Ninja 250 beater. The peak power, twin cylinder even the pricing in Indonesia mirrors the Ninja 250. Why? Because Indonesians buy at least 10 times more Ninja 250 than Indians (the ratio might be even more after the price hike because of the Ninja 300).

Indonesians are far more informed and savvy when it comes to features and specs of their motorcycles. In India, Pricing plays a major part. The Honda CBR250R hasn't done well in UK, Indonesia or even in India. At least in Indonesia its because of its single cylinder configuration.

The most rocking and ones of the most profitable price range to play in India right now is the 1.25 - 1.5 Lakh one. One in which Royal Enfield is easily and very profitably ruling.

Question: Even if Yamaha magically gets the R25 at the price of the CBR250R in India, how much can it expect to sell?
Answer: Definitely not more than the CBR250R. The extra cylinder makes no difference to the masses that would buy the bike (Sorry xBhpians, this is India not Indonesia). Now would that be enough for Yamaha to manufacture in India or then import it directly from Indonesia instead at a higher price.

We can go on speculating... but in business all that matters is profit.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Hi all,
I am Noob, but would like to share something here for discussion sake...

Adding a bit more to the speculation and cost of ownership into the picture, if we look at the specs sheet, it is clear that compared to a single cylinder everything else on a twin is more translating to more expense on maintenance and general running costs per km:

(PS: expense calculation based on assumptions and looking at other 250s and 300s currently in the Indian market. if you don't agree, please don't come after me with pitch forks later!! )

* Engine requires 2.4 ltrs of engine oil just like other Ninjas = 3 bottles of FS oil = Rs. 2400/- (Assumption: Rs. 800/- per 1 ltr bottle)
* Air filter : 150 - 260
* Oil Filter : 150 - 200
* Clutch plates: 3500 - 4500
* Brake Pads: 3500 - 4500
* Chain & Sprockets: 3500 - 4500
* Fibre Panel cost: speculative but if localised may cost as cheap as a CBR 250R
* FE based on other P-twins: 22 - 27kmpl
* Tires lasting about 10k kms: 8,000 - 14,000 (Based on Assumption: Yamaha will follow the KTM road, offering grippiest and sticky tires keeping in line with the R series mantra!!)

So a basic service with just the oil change + oil filter + air filter+ Labour will translate to an average Rs.3500 - 4000/- even if say the service interval is @6000 kms.

Add fuel cost to it, it automatically makes an R25 land up into the premium segment. Whether it is priced at sub 2 lakhs or 3+lakhs INR, i believe should Yamaha decide to launch it in India they are already aware that the expected sale nos. in this market for an R25 will be lesser due to the above mentioned factor. So lets say even if some how they price the vehicle in the lower 2 lakhs category, they will make money on the spares and other parts Just like Kawi-bajaj is currently doing: busy fleecing their customers charging ridiculous amounts even on items manufactured locally. As it is, running the nos. above will automatically alienate a lot of posers and price sensitive juntas from ever going for this motorcycle in India..

The only way an R25 will make sense to Yamaha is if they follow a global launch to compete in the new learner's segment (A2 licence) in European countries, the US and the Asian market which will include India.. i believe it will be the natural step for Yamaha as they don't want to be left out to take their share of pie Honda and others have already sunk their teeth into.

Just my perspective...

Cheers,

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

I am really sorry to say that you have completely missed the central theme of my post. When you read something, do you ever try to understand the theme behind a piece or you just read each sentence on its own? Happened with me on the N300 thread sometime back.

I hope my reply helps you understand.


Did I ever say that the pulsar's are better built than the yamahas? In fact I started my post by stating that The RC would be inferior quality wise compared to the R25.
And yes I know people are not idiots to go just by ads. I in fact brought adverts up since someone had mentioned the Nano not selling because it's perceived as cheap. But I also know that ads can make or break a product. If a product has a great ad campaign to support it, it can rise above its rivals which are all basically the same.
The pulsar ads were not the ONLY reason pulsar sold, but these ads created a brand recall value and at least forced the junta to consider it and not go blindly buy the CBZ. Tell me why the suzuki GS150 didn't sell as well despite being well engineered and considered to be a gem? because they didn't push it well. Suzuki don't have the brand image so they needed to create one by advertorials, which they didn't. The pulsar's now have a brand image, so they don't push it as aggressively as they used to before.If you don't have a brand image and still you don't advertise, then your superior product would fail. You'd be surprised to know the money spent on ad campaigns by all sorts of companies to push their product despite knowing people are idiots who buy just because of the ads.
But I digress. I had wanted to concentrate on something else you posted.
Precisely this :

"
Tell me one thing, how many users who really love biking, has spoken highly of Pulsars (talking about the 150s, 180s and the old 200s and excluding the 220s) regarding the quality in all aspect starting from switch gears to engine

"
No I haven't met many and most guys I know of would ***** about the parts quality. In fact I make it a point to rant about the parts quality of teh KTMs whenever I have to visit the svc.

On the other hand I have found that most guys universally praise the N250 for its parts quality, vibration free ride and the screamer engine. It is generally seen as head and shoulders above anything here in India.
Very few of them, however, own the bike.
I think what Yamaha and every other company targets is profits more than perception. Like what the RDA manger in Avatar said : "There is only one thing the shareholders don't like to see more than bad press, and that is a bad quarterly statement"

I think they have a product which if manufactured here can prove to be an absolute winner and they'd really commit harakiri by pricing it around 3 lacs


And this :

"Now, you can see old R15s which are still running with the same enthusiasm as it was when taken out of the showroom. Don't you think that this has to do something with the price"

Yes, but the price differential for that quality doesn't have to be a lac more. I am no expert in automotive sector supply chain and pricing, but whatever small I have learnt from a KTM engineer I knew, is that the vendors are broadly speaking, same for all the major OEMs. We have gotten used to expect premium pricing from the japs. So if the Yam is manufactured here, there is no reason it can't be priced around 2-2.25 lac mark. If it's a CKD then it'd be around 3 lac.
A high price tag doesn't always mean better quality. The GT250 R is price 3+ lacs. I don't think it's revered as the Ninja?
The better quality of the Yams can be maintained by not charging astronomical sums.
I am not saying Yamaha will do this. All I am saying is that for the product to be a success like the CBR, it has to be around 2-2.5 lacs. May be 2.5 max. After that the superior performance of the RC would sow seeds of doubts in the mind of a customer who would prefer a reliable twin but is not a super staunch Yammie fan.


And this :

Do you really think Yamaha will target 'aam junta' for R25. I guess not. 'aam junta' might not give a damn about a twin or single but a good rider will, cause only they will know why people drool over a twin compared to a single. I'm not going into comparision with RC cause I don't want the quality of R25 to be like those from KTM/Bajaj stable

I think they should target aam junta IF THEY WANT to emulate the success of the CBR. People drool over litrebikes, triples ,bugatti , porsches, ferraris,lamborginis. Not all of them can buy them. May be yamaha will do what you want and place it in the superpremium segment and be happy with a few hundred bikes per year


And this:

"So you want Yamaha to bring out a bike with the build quality of CBR250 or the other? No we would not like that. We are ready to pay a bit more but want a real well buit bike"

Why are you hell bent on paying a bit more? Why the quality cannot be maintained for a mass product(this is relatively speaking, 2.25 lacs is in no way a mass product).I understand the RCs may cut a few corners here and there to keep costs down (and it shows too)since they have superior equipments, Metz, USD forks(this 22-25k alone as a separate part from the svc), steel braided lines, lightweight chassis(a lightweight chassis means better materials for the same strength and lesser weight). The yammie is not light, has conventional telescopic forks and in all probability MRF/IRC tyres if it lands here. There is so much savings there. I think the amount saved is enough to offset the amount spent for general fit and finish and better cycle parts. May be a bit more? Of course all this applies if it's manufactured here, which I keep on saying is paramount for it to succeed here.
Yammie needs to grab market share and should be content with being a fringe player like Kawa.