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  • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

    Originally posted by Manan View Post
    1. Petrol for cleaning/lubing
    2. Varying FE
    @Manan.1. Petrol is a highly corrosive fluid for the rubber O ring of the chain link. If it is used to clean the chain, the O ring seals will degrade over a period of time and chain failure is a sure-shot result. Diesel and kerosene on the other hand are much lesser corrosive for rubber. Yet, they have their impact to some degree. That is why, the world over, heavy fighting vehicles (armoured/standard) which use diesel run on a special diesel version called DHPP - A (Diesel High Pour Point). Among other things, it is quite benign on rubber hoses, gaskets etc. Also less prone to detonation under pressure. If you get this, it is good for the chain.

    Kerosene is still less corrosive but in India, it is a tightly controlled fuel meant for the lesser privileged eco class. The aviation versions - ATF(Avn Turbine Fuel)/JET - A1/JP(Jet Propellant, US term) are therefore used for their stability, power and non-corrosive properties. But NOT to be used for non-aviation and non-propellant applications. It is much more volatile than SKO (Standard Kerosene Oil).

    One gentle nudge. It would be much more educative for you to Google such queries than post them here. I am not rebuking you or any of that stuff, just saying that when one searches for answers to such questions on the Internet, one is more likely to get accurate, pointed yet holistic answers. Ok? No offence meant.

    2. FE is governed by a number of factors. The condition of the road, the load on the bike, ambient temp, quality of fuel and engine use patterns. As a rule of thumb, high RPM will consume more fuel simply because the engine is running more per unit time. This is markedly apparent when combined with low gear. Yet, at the same RPM, a high gear will yield better FE because a substantial part of the motive force required to move the bike is now being provided by the momentum i.e. the inertia of the bike. A bit of physics at play here; in fact, lots of it!

    You will gain in FE if you could practise the following riding methods:

    1. Move off smartly in 1st and get into 3rd and 4th as soon as possible. Don't dawdle in the lower gears for too long.

    2. Try to stay in higher gears as far as possible, depending on road/load conditions.

    3. Don't rev the engine without any reason. There is no need to rev it at gear changes either up or down; the CBR has a fully synchromesh GB so truck-style throttle use is not needed.

    4. Change gears within the specified RPM band. Low RPM for high gear will hit FE as much as high RPM at low gear.

    5. Never, ever, redline the engine. The redline is a warning line/band which indicates the potential for catastrophic engine damage if breached. Modern engines produce the best FE vs performance curve at about 80% of the stated RPm for max torque and power. The CBR yields its max torque at 7000 RPM. So, you should not cross 80% X 7000 = 5600 RPM for long durations. Overtaking can be done at 6000 or 6500 but then get down to 5600 as early as possible. My bike does a steady 90 kph @ 5600. This is a good speed for highway travel for such a small bike. I make good time plus the engine and self are not stressed.

    6. Gradual, steady throttle inputs pay very rich dividends. That screaming start from standstill may look good on rubber-melting bike shows on TV but is hell for the FE, the engine, the tyres. Handle the throttle like you are making love to a woman expertly (if you have not done this either as a novice or as an expert, then use the template of handling a small baby in your hands) - smooth, soft, sure.

    7. Unless road/load conditions prevent so, do NOT use engine braking. Say you are approaching a toll gate at about 90. You can judge when to decelerate, slow down, brake etc. Judge your speed in such a way that you can pull in the clutch, let the engine go to idle for some time, let the bike coast down under its own inertia then shift down to tackle the speed breakers before the gate. Engine braking definitely uses up more fuel than an idle coasting.

    8. Good fuel, clean plugs, filters, lubed chain, even a clean bike to aid in aerodynamic efficiency - all add their penny bits to the FE.

    To quote a 3rd standard Hindi poem "Boond boond pani se saagar bhar jaata hai" and so on.

    Ride safe.
    Last edited by icemang; 07-24-2013, 10:33 AM.

    Comment


    • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

      ah thanks.

      Manan.

      Comment


      • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

        hello guys,
        have anybody installed K&N filter on their CBR250r if so, is there any change in performance.
        please reply m planning to buy one.

        Comment


        • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

          Originally posted by wasim.wassu View Post
          hello guys,
          have anybody installed K&N filter on their CBR250r if so, is there any change in performance.
          please reply m planning to buy one.
          Stay away from K&Ns, UNIs and Simota filters. They do no good. You can assume a 2% increase in power. How much does it translate to? Half a pony! Not worth the troubles it'd bring sooner than later.
          Sorry for ruining your party, but you'd kill the engine soon(er) with a K&N.
          Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
          Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

          Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
          Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
          ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
          P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

          Comment


          • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

            if no K&N then what are the performance upgrade for cbr250r under 10k budget??

            Comment


            • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

              Originally posted by wasim.wassu View Post
              if no K&N then what are the performance upgrade for cbr250r under 10k budget??
              Harder suspension by 2 notches in rear. Upgrade to steel braided lines for brakes.

              Get better brake pads and get a steering dampner.. you'd be able to move quicker on the same machine..

              Also upgrade to thicker oil in front forks. .

              Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
              "A good long ride can clear your mind, restore your faith, and use up a lot of fuel."

              RE Bullet 1977 - Current
              RX-100 1995 - Current
              CBZ Classic 2003 - Current
              Activa 2004 - Current
              CBR 250R 2012 - Current
              Ninja 650 2013 - Current.

              Comment


              • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                Originally posted by theironhorse99 View Post
                Harder suspension by 2 notches in rear. Upgrade to steel braided lines for brakes.

                Get better brake pads and get a steering dampner.. you'd be able to move quicker on the same machine..

                Also upgrade to thicker oil in front forks. .

                Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
                seems to be gud option, but nobody had installed K&N on their CBR, just wanted to knw the experience.

                Comment


                • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                  Originally posted by wasim.wassu View Post
                  if no K&N then what are the performance upgrade for cbr250r under 10k budget??
                  Originally posted by theironhorse99 View Post
                  Harder suspension by 2 notches in rear. Upgrade to steel braided lines for brakes.

                  Get better brake pads and get a steering dampner.. you'd be able to move quicker on the same machine..

                  Also upgrade to thicker oil in front forks. .

                  Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
                  +1 to [MENTION=51754]theironhorse99[/MENTION] for these suggestions.

                  Wasim, since I don't know you; this tip may/may not apply for you. But, if you're overweight, try shaving off 5-7 kilos. Would cost <10k in a good gym (2 months). Would do you a lot of good on long trips as well as for performance of the bike.
                  Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                  Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                  Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                  Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                  ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                  P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                  Comment


                  • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                    Originally posted by icemang View Post
                    7. Unless road/load conditions prevent so, do NOT use engine braking. Say you are approaching a toll gate at about 90. You can judge when to decelerate, slow down, brake etc. Judge your speed in such a way that you can pull in the clutch, let the engine go to idle for some time, let the bike coast down under its own inertia then shift down to tackle the speed breakers before the gate. Engine braking definitely uses up more fuel than an idle coasting.
                    I agree with all pointers of yours sir, but this one.

                    Have a look at this post, maybe its the same for FI bikes also. Does coasting save fuel? - Team-BHP
                    Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                    Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                    Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                    Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                    ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                    P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                    Comment


                    • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                      Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                      I agree with all pointers of yours sir, but this one.

                      Have a look at this post, maybe its the same for FI bikes also. Does coasting save fuel? - Team-BHP
                      This makes a bit of sense. But I am not sure whether the bikes are equipped with Deceleration Fuel Cut Of subsystems.

                      Manan.

                      Comment


                      • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                        Originally posted by Manan View Post
                        This makes a bit of sense. But I am not sure whether the bikes are equipped with Deceleration Fuel Cut Of subsystems.

                        Manan.
                        Yup, that's why I said it "may" apply on FI bikes too. I hope it does, what are the sensors and ECU for?
                        Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                        Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                        Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                        Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                        ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                        P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                        Comment


                        • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                          Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                          Yup, that's why I said it "may" apply on FI bikes too. I hope it does, what are the sensors and ECU for?
                          You are right, engine braking has nothing to do with carb or FI. Engine braking uses the momentum or the inertia with which the bike is moving & converts it into the R.P.M i.e rotational mechanical energy (at crank shaft). This has nothing to do with fuel, you can use engine braking even with ignition OFF on the slopes/down hill (not advised). So this is just a pure concept of conversion of energy. For case of fuel as the throttle is closed during engine braking so the fuel supply is limited.

                          Comment


                          • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                            Originally posted by Traveller01 View Post
                            You are right, engine braking has nothing to do with carb or FI. Engine braking uses the momentum or the inertia with which the bike is moving & converts it into the R.P.M i.e rotational mechanical energy (at crank shaft). This has nothing to do with fuel, you can use engine braking even with ignition OFF on the slopes/down hill (not advised). So this is just a pure concept of conversion of energy. For case of fuel as the throttle is closed during engine braking so the fuel supply is limited.
                            Yes,
                            Coasting is not recommended at all by many people, from what I've read.
                            Practically experienced in traffic of course, you don't have control over a vehicle, it'll keep going and you need to brake after releasing the clutch, that puts additional strain on the braking system not to mention, increasing your braking distance.
                            With engine braking, the bike will remain in your RPM range, ready to either accelerate or decelerate to the speed you need, and braking will be much better.

                            Interesting reading.
                            Coasting technique to save on gas, clutch and engine wear - Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums
                            How do you scrub speed for cornering? - Page 5 - Kawasaki Ninja 300 Forum

                            Comment


                            • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                              Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                              I agree with all pointers of yours sir, but this one.

                              Have a look at this post, maybe its the same for FI bikes also. Does coasting save fuel? - Team-BHP
                              I am quoting the text of the write-up here in blue with my observations in italics. Do analyse what makes more sense. Good debate this has triggered, BTW.

                              There are those who refuse to be shaken from the practice of coasting downhill in neutral to save gas. This is a bad idea no matter how you look at it. Let's set aside fuel economy for a moment. Coasting downhill in neutral is illegal in most states. And it's dangerous in all states. In neutral, you have no way to accelerate to avoid a hazard, and if the engine stalls, you have no power steering or vacuum boost for the brakes. If the hill is steep enough to call for hitting the brakes to keep you from gaining speed, they're more likely to overheat—and overheated brakes lose effectiveness until they cool off. They'll probably do that right around the time the police show up to take the accident report.

                              The author has made the presumption that the vehicle is in neutral. That is definitely NOT what I meant when I spoke of coasting. In my riding/driving style, and from what I have learned, the correct form of coasting means disengaging the clutch and allowing the engine to wind down to idle RPM WITH THE GEARBOX IN GEAR, NOT IN NEUTRAL. As and when a necessity arises, the disengaged clutch allows one to get into whichever gear one wants in an instant. And as I have mentioned in the earlier post, one needs to apply this method in an APPROPRIATE manner, on a case to case basis. Downhill coasting, in neutral is obviously a strict no-no and in neutral, with the engine switched off, is like pre-booking funeral services. And regardless of whether the vehicle is in gear or in neutral, the engine can switch off on its own for a variety of unconnected reasons.


                              Here's the surprise: There's no trade-off between safety and fuel economy in this case. Leaving the car in gear while coasting downhill actually is more efficient. Why? Most fuel-injected engines today use computer-controlled Deceleration Fuel Cut Off: When you lift your foot from the gas while leaving the car in gear, injectors shut off automatically, and the car's rotating tires—which are connected to the engine via the transmission—keep the engine turning and the accessories running. So, the engine consumes no fuel at all while the vehicle is coasting downhill.

                              Even though what he says makes a lot of sense, I would like to debate that. The FI pump, in most FI engined vehicles, is connected to the ignition circuit. Even on the CBR, we are familiar with the whining spool-up of the in-tank pump. With the IGN on, the pump spools up and is primed to deliver fuel to the injectors. The injectors should NOT shut off completely until the fuel pump is operating AND the engine is turning over under fuel. The injectors should continue to spray fuel as per the ECU map commands at that point of time.

                              This means that with the vehicle in gear and the clutch engaged, the engine is still under load and the ECU is NOT at idle map. To me, it seems that the fuel consumption would be higher in such a case versus that when the engine is in idle mode.

                              Any automobile engineers to enlighten the discussion?
                              Last edited by icemang; 07-25-2013, 11:46 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: New bike - New rider - Suggestion needed

                                Originally posted by icemang View Post
                                This means that with the vehicle in gear and the clutch engaged, the engine is still under load and the ECU is NOT at idle map. To me, it seems that the fuel consumption would be higher in such a case versus that when the engine is in idle mode.

                                Any automobile engineers to enlighten the discussion?
                                Nice discussion this.

                                If we go through - How it Works: Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) Technology - Experience Powersports - Honda Powersports, we find the following portion that says:

                                PGM-FI is an n-alpha mapped injection system. That means the basic variables are the engine speed (n) and the throttle angle (alpha). Based mainly on these two measurements, the system looks to its fuel mapping for the fuel delivery figure corresponding to the n and alpha of the moment.

                                So, let us assume that we're making use of engine braking downhill without the application of throttle. This means that the alpha component is ZERO. Hence, there should be no fuel being delivered for combustion. If this is true, why coast with the clutch disengaged?
                                Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                                Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                                Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                                Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                                ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                                P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                                Comment

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