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Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

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  • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

    ^^^ Where do you people get these ideas from??? ... Do you know these things as facts or is it just folklore with out any foundation in facts? Here are some facts:

    1. Engine is not a brake. Period!!! It is not meant to slow the bike down.

    2. Engines are made for driving and accelerating vehicle. If you are using engine as a brake, then thats one heck of an expensive brake while being a imprecise one too. The cost of slowing a bike or for that matter any other vehicle with engine is the additional wear and tear of all moving components in the engine. Brake pads cost fraction of what engine internals cost.

    3. Brakes are meant (and designed) to slow bikes down and are very precise tools which regulate slowing a vehicle down (you can control deceleration down to 0.01 km/h). If you are not able to achieve such precise control then you have not yet developed the braking skills required. Work on your braking skills and learn precision control rather than slamming down gears to slow down.

    4. What you consider good braking as a healthy sign is nothing but back torque being created due to mis-match of engine speed and rear wheel speed. When you downshift without matching the engine speed to the rear wheel speed, the engine and rear wheel push-pull till both speeds match. When you down shift, depending upon the gearbox ratio it will mean that the engine speed is now lower than what it was in the pervious gear, while the rear wheel speed is still what it was when the previous gear was engage. Thus there is now a mis-match of speeds between two spinning bodies. The engine will now try to drag the rear wheel speed down, whereas due to Newton's third law of motion, the rear wheel will resist by trying to apply equal force to spin the engine to meet its current speed. Hence, you see the temporary increase in rpm when you downshift and engage the engine. Eventually, the engine is successful in exerting more force due to its mass (internal components) and brings the rear wheel speed down to match the engine speed.

    Now based on point 4, will someone please explain to me how engine is brake????
    Last edited by abhimanyu31; 10-03-2013, 04:14 PM.
    Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

    Multum in Parvo - Much in Little

    "Yes, it is FAST! No, you CAN'T ride it!" - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...a-300-san.html

    Comment


    • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

      Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post
      ^^^ Where do you people get these ideas from??? ... Do you know these things as facts or is it just folklore with out any foundation in facts? Here are some facts:

      1. Engine is not a brake. Period!!! It is not meant to slow the bike down.

      2. Engines are made for driving and accelerating vehicle. If you are using engine as a brake, then thats one heck of an expensive brake while being a imprecise one too. The cost of slowing a bike or for that matter any other vehicle with engine is the additional wear and tear of all moving components in the engine. Brake pads cost fraction of what engine internals cost.

      3. Brakes are meant (and designed) to slow bikes down and are very precise tools which regulate slowing a vehicle down (you can control deceleration down to 0.01 km/h). If you are not able to achieve such precise control then you have not yet developed the braking skills required. Work on your braking skills and learn precision control rather than slamming down gears to slow down.

      4. What you consider good braking as a healthy sign is nothing but back torque being created due to mis-match of engine speed and rear wheel speed. When you downshift without matching the engine speed to the rear wheel speed, the engine and rear wheel push-pull till both speeds match. When you down shift, depending upon the gearbox ratio it will mean that the engine speed is now lower than what it was in the pervious gear, while the rear wheel speed is still what it was when the previous gear was engage. Thus there is now a mis-match of speeds between two spinning bodies. The engine will now try to drag the rear wheel speed down, whereas due to Newton's third law of motion, the rear wheel will resist by trying to apply equal force to spin the engine to meet its current speed. Hence, you see the temporary increase in rpm when you downshift and engage the engine. Eventually, the engine is successful in exerting more force due to its mass (internal components) and brings the rear wheel speed down to match the engine speed.

      Now based on point 4, will someone please explain to me how engine is brake????
      Dude dude dude!! Chill!
      Engine braking/gear lock is for a fact which helps slow down and adds on while panic braking. Each of us have different views and you gave your and I just provided mine. If you still can't go with my view you can just google it up and gain some knowledge.
      Regarding braking there are few tips I am aware like pumping and leaning forward putting more of weight towards the front portion of the bike which avoids wheel lock of front wheel.

      I totally agree with what explaination 4. of your's say. :thumbup:

      Sent from my A210 using Tapatalk 2

      Comment


      • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

        Originally posted by Yashas Rl View Post
        Dude dude dude!! Chill!
        ..... If you still can't go with my view you can just google it up and gain some knowledge.
        Regarding braking there are few tips I am aware like pumping and leaning forward putting more of weight towards the front portion of the bike which avoids wheel lock of front wheel.

        Sent from my A210 using Tapatalk 2
        Sure, will Google it up and gain some knowledge... By the way, I have no issues with your 'views', I just deal in 'facts'...
        Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

        Multum in Parvo - Much in Little

        "Yes, it is FAST! No, you CAN'T ride it!" - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...a-300-san.html

        Comment


        • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

          Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post
          ^^^ Where do you people get these ideas from??? ... Do you know these things as facts or is it just folklore with out any foundation in facts? Here are some facts:

          1. Engine is not a brake. Period!!! It is not meant to slow the bike down.

          2. Engines are made for driving and accelerating vehicle. If you are using engine as a brake, then thats one heck of an expensive brake while being a imprecise one too. The cost of slowing a bike or for that matter any other vehicle with engine is the additional wear and tear of all moving components in the engine. Brake pads cost fraction of what engine internals cost.

          3. Brakes are meant (and designed) to slow bikes down and are very precise tools which regulate slowing a vehicle down (you can control deceleration down to 0.01 km/h). If you are not able to achieve such precise control then you have not yet developed the braking skills required. Work on your braking skills and learn precision control rather than slamming down gears to slow down.

          4. What you consider good braking as a healthy sign is nothing but back torque being created due to mis-match of engine speed and rear wheel speed. When you downshift without matching the engine speed to the rear wheel speed, the engine and rear wheel push-pull till both speeds match. When you down shift, depending upon the gearbox ratio it will mean that the engine speed is now lower than what it was in the pervious gear, while the rear wheel speed is still what it was when the previous gear was engage. Thus there is now a mis-match of speeds between two spinning bodies. The engine will now try to drag the rear wheel speed down, whereas due to Newton's third law of motion, the rear wheel will resist by trying to apply equal force to spin the engine to meet its current speed. Hence, you see the temporary increase in rpm when you downshift and engage the engine. Eventually, the engine is successful in exerting more force due to its mass (internal components) and brings the rear wheel speed down to match the engine speed.

          Now based on point 4, will someone please explain to me how engine is brake????
          Omg!!! Dude dude. Chill I didnt tell I use engine as a brake. By engine braking I meant the force with which engine slows down my bike when I roll-off the throttle.. Say am doing 90kmph and I roll-off the throttle and the bike slows down or deccelerates a bit faster. This is what I meant. If you have any views, please advice No prob with brakes since it goes freely when I press the clutch

          Ps: why so rude bro??
          Last edited by siddharthsure; 10-03-2013, 06:56 PM.
          Its better to sweat than bleed!! "AGATT "

          sigpic

          Comment


          • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

            Originally posted by siddharthsure View Post
            Omg!!! Dude dude. Chill I didnt tell I use engine as a brake. By engine braking I meant the force with which engine slows down my bike when I roll-off the throttle.. Say am doing 90kmph and I roll-off the throttle and the bike slows down or deccelerates a bit faster. This is what I meant. If you have any views, please advice No prob with brakes since it goes freely when I press the clutch
            The deceleration that you are getting when you let go of the throttle is not limited to engine only. Wind resistance, rolling resistance, and overall wet weight play a significant role in the overall scenario. Also when you let go of the throttle, there is little or no fuel charge going into the cylinder, hence, the engine is not making any power (or atleast making very little power), under such circumstances Newton's first law of motion comes into play... 'An object in motion continues to motion at the same speed and the same direction unless acted upon by unbalanced force'... the unbalanced force out here is the mass of moving parts including wheels, chain, gears, piston valves, wind resistance, rolling resistance and mass/ weight of the bike and rider.

            P.s. I am not being rude... I just asking if these discussions are based on facts? I have no axe to grind against anyone... you can ask anyone from xbhp who has met me personally...
            Last edited by abhimanyu31; 10-03-2013, 07:15 PM.
            Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

            Multum in Parvo - Much in Little

            "Yes, it is FAST! No, you CAN'T ride it!" - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...a-300-san.html

            Comment


            • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

              going to have my first long ride/trip tomorrow (so far 120 kms has been the maximum i have ridden on a ride).

              allahabad-kanpur on the NH-2. the whole trip will be something like 450 kms. hoping that the rain stays away now, so that i get a dry highway to rip my bike on the highway.

              but even if it rains i am going anyway..

              not a casual ride just for fun btw...need to run an important errand in kanpur..

              Comment


              • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

                Have a nicw ride dude..me too planning something in the next month.


                Ride safe.

                Sent from my GT-I9003

                Comment


                • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

                  Originally posted by harsimranjitsidhu661 View Post
                  Hello friends,

                  Can anyone post the rim width size, front and rear for v2?
                  Bump!!! Anyone guys??
                  CBR250R Bible: 7500, 7600, 8200 and 9899
                  My CBR experience so far : I II

                  "सैर कर दुनिया की गालिब, जिंदगानी फिर कहाँ, जिंदगानी गर रही तो, नौजवानी फिर कहाँ ?''

                  Comment


                  • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

                    Abhimanyou did good R&D on Airfilter and stuff, i read his posts which were like articles and were quite impressive.
                    i respect him for his knowledge.
                    Thumbs up!!

                    Best of luck Siddhartsure and have a Tremendous Ride!!!!

                    Comment


                    • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

                      Originally posted by Princepaji View Post
                      Abhimanyou did good R&D on Airfilter and stuff, i read his posts which were like articles and were quite impressive.
                      i respect him for his knowledge.
                      Thumbs up!!

                      Best of luck Siddhartsure and have a Tremendous Ride!!!!
                      Yes I know about him.. And why you tagged me here?? Didnt say anything agaist him
                      Its better to sweat than bleed!! "AGATT "

                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • engine braking

                        Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post
                        ... Here are some facts: 1. Engine is not a brake. Period!!! It is not meant to slow the bike down....
                        In gasoline (petrol) engines the engine is a brake . And a very safe , useful and effective one at that too . So much so that since diesel engines have no engine brake as such , they have devices that allows it to closely emulate a petrol engine's braking function . Here is a roadsign that asks you to use it ... and so does my bike's owner's manual .

                        Last edited by Pinaki; 10-03-2013, 11:13 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

                          Originally posted by siddharthsure View Post
                          Yes I know about him.. And why you tagged me here?? Didnt say anything agaist him
                          I know you did not said against him and i even did not claimed.
                          I kept two invisible rows space to wish you good luck for ride, no connection against abhimanyu. Chill!!!

                          Comment


                          • Re: Yamaha YZF-R15 version 2.0

                            Originally posted by Princepaji View Post
                            I know you did not said against him and i even did not claimed.
                            I kept two invisible rows space to wish you good luck for ride, no connection against abhimanyu. Chill!!!
                            am not going for ride!! I guess its aditya. Thats the reason for misunderstanding
                            Last edited by siddharthsure; 10-03-2013, 11:49 PM.
                            Its better to sweat than bleed!! "AGATT "

                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Re: engine braking

                              Originally posted by Pinaki View Post
                              In gasoline (petrol) engines the engine is a brake . And a very safe , useful and effective one at that too . So much so that since diesel engines have no engine brake as such , they have devices that allows it to closely emulate a petrol engine's braking function . Here is a roadsign that asks you to use it ... and so does my bike's owner's manual .

                              Wow!!! And btw does frequent use damage clutch right??? And isnt it harmful for engine??
                              Last edited by siddharthsure; 10-03-2013, 11:49 PM.
                              Its better to sweat than bleed!! "AGATT "

                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Re: engine braking

                                Originally posted by Pinaki View Post
                                In gasoline (petrol) engines the engine is a brake . And a very safe , useful and effective one at that too . So much so that since diesel engines have no engine brake as such , they have devices that allows it to closely emulate a petrol engine's braking function . Here is a roadsign that asks you to use it ... and so does my bike's owner's manual .

                                Could you please quote the line from your bike's owners manual. As far as the photo you have posted is concerned... Please read the sign properly, it says use lower gears and avoid overheating the brakes. Using lower gears is to limit the speed at which you will go down a incline, it is not to use the engine as a brake. By using lower gears you will limit yourself to speeds that are safe and thereby prevent overheating the brakes. It certainly does not mean that engine is brake. Quite simply put, limiting the speed of your vehicle is not equal to braking.

                                Still not convinced? I humbly draw your attention to the infamous book, 'A Twist of the Wrist' by Keith Code. Chapter 8 - 'Braking', Page 68, Sub Topic 'Engine is not a Brake' - I quote "It's suppose to increase the speed of the machine - not decrease it. At any place where you have to use brakes and downshift at the same time, it is not efficient or correct to use the engine to slow you. There isn't much weight on the rear wheel to begin with, using the engine means you are going to have to replace the crank and pistons sooner".

                                In case you are wondering who Keith Code is; he is the founder and owner of the world famous California Superbike School. He is also the person who taught 3 time world champion Wayne Rainey the art and science of road racing. Also the book has side notes by 4 times world champion Eddie Lawson (again a student of his) and foreword by 3 times world champion Kenny Roberts.

                                3 people with an incredible 10 world championships between them endorse the above quote.

                                I rest my case, nothing more to say


                                Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
                                Last edited by abhimanyu31; 10-04-2013, 12:06 AM.
                                Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.

                                Multum in Parvo - Much in Little

                                "Yes, it is FAST! No, you CAN'T ride it!" - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...a-300-san.html

                                Comment

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