Announcement

**splus** · 08-30-2013, 03:22 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Hey guys!
I've just posted my MRA RNB windscreen review on a separate thread, so it can benefit both Dukes. These things get buried in ownership threads within a day or two.

MRA RNB windscreen for naked bikes (review for KTM Duke) - xBhp.com : The Global Indian Biking Community

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-biking-discussion/27120-mra-rnb-windscreen-naked-bikes-review-ktm-duke.html

Review anything & everything that is a part of your motorcycling needs!

I'd also like to mention something I forgot to share.
I had a 6 hour ride the other day, and man, those tires are just fantastic when they're properly warmed up! They stick like a glue! Going in corners in smaller country roads is a bliss.
I've found MRFs to be OK, average when cold, but after some 10 km they perform much better. But, if you warm them up fully, after some 50 km then they are fantastic.

Originally posted by shv18 View Post

Nope @Chethan Shivakumar has made it clear in the his post above that the ECU re-learns about the void and after 2 -3 runs you are back to square one. Hence, the suggestion.

* Mate on what basis have you come to the figure of 28 bhp??
* Is 28 bhp at the crank or at the wheel??
* The stock bike produces 25 bhp at the crank but at the wheel owing to transmission losses, the actual bhps will be far lesser.
* Is there a proper Dyno run to confirm what you feel is the performance figure achieved??

Please do bear in mind that without a proper dyno run the claims made by various tuning houses are just claims and nothing else. If you have checked out my hot roding thread, at a later stage when the dyno is available locally, i will be getting a lie detection test done soon to see what are the actual nos. been thrown at the rear wheel compared to the estimated bhp generation.

Cheers,

As I already said, I have my doubts about the ECU adopting itself to limit the top speed if it's not getting any reading about the top speed.
Again, just from my personal experience, I've had the top speed performance varying sometimes. Not sure why, but it WAS happening. That's the only reason I say to wait a bit more until we make definite conclusions. We just need some more testing, and then we'll know for sure.

The hp figures for Kiirus ECU are from Kiirus website: .: Kiirus :.
That's where it says 27.5 - 28 hp.
Yes, crank is crank, rear wheel is rear wheel. Power of every bike drops down considerably at rear wheel, some more, some less. What manufacturers say often turns out to be more or less optimistic.
However, there was a French comparison review of new Honda CB500 and D390, and both bikes had power at crank at around 47 hp, and at rear wheel at around 43 hp! Official hp from KTM is 43 hp (43.5 PS), whereas Honda CB500's is 48 hp. Looks like KTM gives their hp figures pretty accurately, and that not at crank but at rear wheel...

There's also a video of top speed runs in each gear on a dyno of a Duke with Kiirus ECU, uploaded by Abhishek:

KTM Duke 200 top speed after ECU remap by KIIRUS - YouTube

In this video you can see the top speeds in each gear. It hits the rev limiter at 149 kmh in 6th and 131 kmh at 5th gear. I hit the rev limiter in 5th at 136 kmh (5 kmh higher than the dyno video), and that's with the same 43T sprocket. Looks like the current Kiirus ECU limiter cuts at higher rpms than in that video.
It means I would (theoretically) hit the rev limiter at 154 kmh in 6th with my current bike. 42T sprocket would top at 157 kmh, and 40T at 165 kmh. That's assuming IF there would be enough power to push the bike to those speeds, which I doubt. The power peaks at 10k rpm, and should go slowly down after it. From my experience the power at 11,700 rpm feel to be about the same as at 10,000 rpm.
Therefore, if someone is into higher top speeds, I think 37-39T sprocket would be better...

EDIT: After some search, I've found this video of stock Duke 200 on a dyno doing 23.92 hp at 9890 rpm.

Ktm duke 200 dynomite - YouTube

Originally posted by 747anwar View Post

One of my buddy's duke 200 was advised to change the fuel pump,they said its damaged by low fuel grade and only high octane petrol must be used

As given in the owners manual.do anyone face this problem??currently using bharath petroleum normal fuel and high octane petrol is not available here.do the duke 200 really need high octane petrol,since its compression ratio is 11.3?

I think there's a difference between different octane level petrol and dirty/clean petrol.
I've been filling up my regular petrol (premium not available) at IO in my area, and the fuel filter was very, very dirty. Eventually, I changed the fuel pump as well.
The guy in SC in Bangalore recommended me to switch to HP, saying it's better. I wouldn't know.

In Indian manual it says Duke 200 runs at RON 91. However, if you look at the KTM brochure for fuel recommendations for all KTM bikes you'll see that recommended fuel for Duke 200 is RON 95. But, RON 91 will still be pretty OK...

Again, the dirty fuel pump and fuel filter is more of a problem of dirty fuel. If you can find a pump that's pretty good and clean then great. If not, then change the fuel filter as often as you can to keep the fuel pump as clean as possible. That's what I'll do. Fuel filter is only some 80-90 Rs...

**wallpapers123** · 08-30-2013, 04:34 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by Chethan Shivakumar View Post

For example sake here is how this may be working. Lets say at 20kph the wire is transmitting 0.1volt and at 40kph 0.2 and it grows exponentially and at 135 its transmitting some 1volt signal now this could be the trigger set point on the ECU so once you receive that 1 volt cut off torque or fuel or something. Now for me or any one to test this we ll need simulators for the ECU or a Dyno to actually test this which is something out of my or our reach at the moment i would say

Now to your point why your low and mid is better compared to the top is coz the Duke injector is a little on the weaker side for the top end so you cant tune much on the top end
some days back when i was searching i found one

Is that why once I was riding a little low on fuel(only the last tiniest bar left)...and went all the way to 10k rpm in 5th gear and the injector did a 'squisshh' and the engine cut off..Thank fully I was on an empty road with petrol pump just a 100 mtrs away..??
It usually does feel a bit weird going past 9K RPM when its a bit low on fuel..Maybe some pros could shed some light on it..??

**chinmayakar** · 08-30-2013, 04:46 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Nicely put Serge. That should put all the doubts to rest regarding bhp claims. @wallpaper, yes, even I have experienced this. Especially when you are very low on fuel, where the speedo shows the no. of KMs remaining before you go dry, I have felt little more restricted.

**shv18** · 08-31-2013, 12:53 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Sorry guys,

was out whole day so couldn't respond

Originally posted by Chethan Shivakumar View Post

Not Necessarily Shv18 because using the 40T you ll actually be more quicker as you get those 10-15kph extra in each gear and explained above. I dont think i want to go for a engine mod my next and final mod will only be a ECU remap and with that alone i am pretty confident that i can attain close to 155+ with my 40T sprockets and i dont think i want to push beyond that. Coming to your point of engine wear and tear at high RPM's i agree but come on who will be ripping every energy out of the bike every time you ride, sensible people know how to keep their engines happy and yet rev once in a while to extract the best performance unlike the manic's

Mate it is simply impossible that a 40T rear sprocket modded bike will be faster in acceleration than a 42T or 43T sprocketed Duke 200. My guess is what you meant was that the Duke will achieve higher speed at the same rpm in which say a stock duke reaches 60, your vehicle will be doing around 70 - 75 kmph. The top speed will remain limited as thanks to your experiment it is clear that the Duke ECU is quite a tricky one to deal with unless one can crack the same mod Motozone has done.

Any drop in rear teeth or increase in front teeth will lead to drops in rpm required to achieve the same speed. The bike will have a higher top end at the cost of quick accleration. Unless your stock bike is generating extra horses to compensate for the changes in sprocketing, a 40T sprocketed Duke cannot out accelerate a stock Duke, except at higher speeds..

Originally posted by splus View Post

As I already said, I have my doubts about the ECU adopting itself to limit the top speed if it's not getting any reading about the top speed.
Again, just from my personal experience, I've had the top speed performance varying sometimes. Not sure why, but it WAS happening. That's the only reason I say to wait a bit more until we make definite conclusions. We just need some more testing, and then we'll know for sure.

The hp figures for Kiirus ECU are from Kiirus website: .: Kiirus :.
That's where it says 27.5 - 28 hp.
Yes, crank is crank, rear wheel is rear wheel. Power of every bike drops down considerably at rear wheel, some more, some less. What manufacturers say often turns out to be more or less optimistic.
However, there was a French comparison review of new Honda CB500 and D390, and both bikes had power at crank at around 47 hp, and at rear wheel at around 43 hp! Official hp from KTM is 43 hp (43.5 PS), whereas Honda CB500's is 48 hp. Looks like KTM gives their hp figures pretty accurately, and that not at crank but at rear wheel...

There's also a video of top speed runs in each gear on a dyno of a Duke with Kiirus ECU, uploaded by Abhishek:

KTM Duke 200 top speed after ECU remap by KIIRUS - YouTube

In this video you can see the top speeds in each gear. It hits the rev limiter at 149 kmh in 6th and 131 kmh at 5th gear. I hit the rev limiter in 5th at 136 kmh (5 kmh higher than the dyno video), and that's with the same 43T sprocket. Looks like the current Kiirus ECU limiter cuts at higher rpms than in that video.

Ktm duke 200 dynomite - YouTube

Hi mate,

if i may, below are a few pointers from my end

:

* The video shown by KIIRIUS is not a dyno but a roller. If the roller has not been calibrated properly then it can also show 160 kmph... not that KIIRIUS would ever do that but just a possibility with alignment and weight resistance at the rolling road wheel dia on which the rear tire spins...

* It will show a much higher speed because the bike doesn't have to face the following factors working against it (at 149 kmph) like wind resistance and rolling resistance of the tires along with the ambient conditions like cross wind, temperature, barometric pressure, altitude, surface incline or decline, slippery road surface may be, tire grip conditions etc..

* The youtube video doesn't declare anything about the KTM Duke 200 being tested: whether it was bone stock or with modifications. So i guess if you can connect with the user who posted the video, it will throw some light. Based on manufacturers and transmission gears, sprockets and chain set up the overall transmission losses can be as high as 20%.

* Well, i am not sure what the real deal is but my guess is besides the speedo sensor the ECU also is getting the readings about the gears from the gear sensor. As all of you gentlemen have reported that particularly at 6th gear the engine feels very restricted so my guess is the speedo console then sends the electrical signal to the ECU that the 6th gear has been engaged and then the torque limiter/speed governor becomes active. Guys please confirm if the display console also shows which gears you are running in? I have no idea as i don't own a Duke 200 but if my hunch is right then this is the most probable culprit...

* Finally, as i always say, unless there is a proper dyno data showing the nos. achieved it is just merely a claim. I am not here to undermine KIIRIUS's map's potential but the data is not enough to verify whether the claims made regarding HPs are actually true.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

**sanjana k** · 08-31-2013, 01:05 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Mumbai roads during monsoon are super bad and i think bcoz of this i have had 5 fork seal leaks in the last 2 months. So now i have decided that i will get my current fork seal leak repaired only after rains when maybe the roads may get better,so for the last 1 week i am riding with a fork seal on my bike. So just wanted to know am i doing the right thing and if no than whats gonna go wrong in my bike if i dont ever get my fork seal repaired bcoz regular fork seal leaks are expensive for me as i am still in college and surviving on my pocket-money!!!! I get super pissed when i see bikes which cost one-third of duke litereally gliding over potholes and we all suffering. I seriously feel the dukes suspension sucks big time

**ynike99** · 08-31-2013, 01:33 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

[MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION], dukes speed sensor is in front tyre, so on a dyno, theres no speed signal to ecu and hence no cutoff.

Sent from my LT26ii using xBhp Connect mobile app

**shv18** · 08-31-2013, 01:41 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by ynike99 View Post

@shv18, dukes speed sensor is in front tyre, so on a dyno, theres no speed signal to ecu and hence no cutoff.

Sent from my LT26ii using xBhp Connect mobile app

Thanks for the correction

**splus** · 08-31-2013, 02:02 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by shv18 View Post

Sorry guys,
was out whole day so couldn't respond

Mate it is simply impossible that a 40T rear sprocket modded bike will be faster in acceleration than a 42T or 43T sprocketed Duke 200. My guess is what you meant was that the Duke will achieve higher speed at the same rpm in which say a stock duke reaches 60, your vehicle will be doing around 70 - 75 kmph. The top speed will remain limited as thanks to your experiment it is clear that the Duke ECU is quite a tricky one to deal with unless one can crack the same mod Motozone has done.

Any drop in rear teeth or increase in front teeth will lead to drops in rpm required to achieve the same speed. The bike will have a higher top end at the cost of quick accleration. Unless your stock bike is generating extra horses to compensate for the changes in sprocketing, a 40T sprocketed Duke cannot out accelerate a stock Duke, except at higher speeds..

Hi mate,

if i may, below are a few pointers from my end

:

* The video shown by KIIRIUS is not a dyno but a roller. If the roller has not been calibrated properly then it can also show 160 kmph... not that KIIRIUS would ever do that but just a possibility with alignment and weight resistance at the rolling road wheel dia on which the rear tire spins...

* It will show a much higher speed because the bike doesn't have to face the following factors working against it (at 149 kmph) like wind resistance and rolling resistance of the tires along with the ambient conditions like cross wind, temperature, barometric pressure, altitude, surface incline or decline, slippery road surface may be, tire grip conditions etc..

* The youtube video doesn't declare anything about the KTM Duke 200 being tested: whether it was bone stock or with modifications. So i guess if you can connect with the user who posted the video, it will throw some light. Based on manufacturers and transmission gears, sprockets and chain set up the overall transmission losses can be as high as 20%.

* Well, i am not sure what the real deal is but my guess is besides the speedo sensor the ECU also is getting the readings about the gears from the gear sensor. As all of you gentlemen have reported that particularly at 6th gear the engine feels very restricted so my guess is the speedo console then sends the electrical signal to the ECU that the 6th gear has been engaged and then the torque limiter/speed governor becomes active. Guys please confirm if the display console also shows which gears you are running in? I have no idea as i don't own a Duke 200 but if my hunch is right then this is the most probable culprit...

* Finally, as i always say, unless there is a proper dyno data showing the nos. achieved it is just merely a claim. I am not here to undermine KIIRIUS's map's potential but the data is not enough to verify whether the claims made regarding HPs are actually true.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

I'm the one who has the shortest 43T sprocket, and I can say that it's BELOW the barrier that's optimum for the fastest acceleration. That was the case with stock ECU, and with Kiirus ECU it's much more.

To elaborate - if you put a super short 100T sprocket the revs will go up incredibly fast but the speed will go up also incredibly slow.
And if you put an incredibly tall 20T sprocket then the revs will go up incredibly slow, and the speed will go up relatively fast, but still not fast because the engine itself can't push up such a tall sprocket.

What I'm saying is that each engine, at a given power, has its OPTIMUM gearing, where the acceleration will be the fastest.
If you go too short then the revs go up very fast but the speed goes up too slowly, and if you go too tall the revs go up very slowly and the speed also can't go up very fast.
There's an optimal gearing that gives a fastest acceleration.

What I'm saying, from my own experience with 43T sprocket is, that 43T sprocket is on the short side of that optimal gearing. A Duke with 42T sprocket will accelerate faster than a Duke with 43T, simply because it's closer to that perfect optimal fastest gearing.

Now, if you increase the power then the optimal gearing changes.
If the power is higher then the optimal gearing will be taller. Therefore, a Duke with Kiirus ECU will have its optimal gearing taller than a stock Duke.

We haven't done any tests with 42T vs 40T sprocket, but I think, at least with Kiirus ECU the 40T would accelerate faster than 43T.
I'm not sure if 41T would be faster in acceleration than 40T. I'm pretty sure it would be better in top speed, but not sure about the acceleration.
As for acceleration, I think 42T or 41T might be the fastest option for stock ECU, and 41T or 40T for Kiirus ECU.
Top speed is a different story, the truth is a few teeth taller...
But, we'd know this ONLY with proper tests.

But, from my own personal experience, I can say that 43T is way too short, and is hampering the acceleration, let alone the top speed.

I'm little short with time, but I'll really try to have a top speed run tomorrow, and change the sprocket to 40T some time next week, and do more top speed tests.
And do the tests with and without the windscreen, because I think it affects the top speed considerably.

About the Kiirus "dyno" test - you're completely right.
Until some proper dyno test is done it's just a Kiirus claim. Nothing more.

However, I can say that the lows and mids are some 20% stronger than stock ECU, but the top end I don't find stronger, only the rev limiter moved to higher point. I'm talking from personal experience, no real tests.
It seems as if Duke's top end is already at its max, and Kiirus ECU doesn't increase it, it only "extends" it to 11.7k rpm. Which is not a small thing. We all know Duke's top end is very strong.
So, not sure about the top hp power, but the low and mid power is definitely much stronger, and top end lasts longer.

Theoretically, it might happen that Kiirus top end power is the same as the stock top end power, but in reality it's noticeably stronger than stock. Due to its stronger low and mid it will FOR SURE give much better 0-100 kmh time, and due to its stretched rev limiter (longer lasting top end) it will give a better top speed.

So, dyno results? It's all good, but real world results are still the ones that really matter.
Look at CBR250 - it's much heavier than D200 with identical power, but it manages to have a really good top speed...

About the second video, a Duke dyno test - it looks to be a stock, and in the video it hasn't been mentioned it had any modifications.
I'm just going with a simple assumption that if the guy had any modifications on his bike he would have said so. We can always doubt any video, no matter what has been said or written...
And the results seem quite "ordinary" for a Duke, pretty average, 1 hp less than the manufacturer's claim...
So, I suppose it's just a stock D200 dyno result.

**shv18** · 08-31-2013, 01:02 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by splus View Post

I'm the one who has the shortest 43T sprocket, and I can say that it's BELOW the barrier that's optimum for the fastest acceleration. That was the case with stock ECU, and with Kiirus ECU it's much more....

But, from my own personal experience, I can say that 43T is way too short, and is hampering the acceleration, let alone the top speed.

I'm little short with time, but I'll really try to have a top speed run tomorrow, and change the sprocket to 40T some time next week, and do more top speed tests.
And do the tests with and without the windscreen, because I think it affects the top speed considerably.

About the Kiirus "dyno" test - you're completely right.
Until some proper dyno test is done it's just a Kiirus claim. Nothing more.

..........Theoretically, it might happen that Kiirus top end power is the same as the stock top end power, but in reality it's noticeably stronger than stock. Due to its stronger low and mid it will FOR SURE give much better 0-100 kmh time, and due to its stretched rev limiter (longer lasting top end) it will give a better top speed.

So, dyno results? It's all good, but real world results are still the ones that really matter.
Look at CBR250 - it's much heavier than D200 with identical power, but it manages to have a really good top speed...

About the second video, a Duke dyno test - it looks to be a stock, and in the video it hasn't been mentioned it had any modifications.
I'm just going with a simple assumption that if the guy had any modifications on his bike he would have said so. We can always doubt any video, no matter what has been said or written...
And the results seem quite "ordinary" for a Duke, pretty average, 1 hp less than the manufacturer's claim...
So, I suppose it's just a stock D200 dyno result.

If the bike generates additional BHPs then yes along with the Speed Governor removed, it would completely change the behaviour of the bike with the usage of a 40T or even a 39T rear sprocket.

What i have mentioned is specifically related to stock bike comparison scenario with 0 - 60 kmph acceleration timings between a stock sprocketted and a 40T or 39T sprocketted Duke 200. The Acceleration will become more linear and the engine will become slightly more relaxed with the shift to a 40T/39T rear sprocket mod.

If indeed the Dyno results only 23.9 bhp at the wheel then the transmission losses are less than 10% which is then quite commendable. For the benefit of this group below is a comparo test done between a Daytona 675R and MV Augusta F3:

please do check out the actual gains at the wheel after the dyno run test and claimed BHPs by the manufacturer.

Cheers,

**wallpapers123** · 08-31-2013, 08:56 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by sanjana k View Post

Mumbai roads during monsoon are super bad and i think bcoz of this i have had 5 fork seal leaks in the last 2 months. So now i have decided that i will get my current fork seal leak repaired only after rains when maybe the roads may get better,so for the last 1 week i am riding with a fork seal on my bike. So just wanted to know am i doing the right thing and if no than whats gonna go wrong in my bike if i dont ever get my fork seal repaired bcoz regular fork seal leaks are expensive for me as i am still in college and surviving on my pocket-money!!!! I get super pissed when i see bikes which cost one-third of duke litereally gliding over potholes and we all suffering. I seriously feel the dukes suspension sucks big time

What u need to do is make sure the area surrounding the fork seal is clean with a soft cloth after every rainy ride..don't let any dust or any tiny particles settle there which might result to a leak over time(thats what the SVC mechanic told me)
I too had a fork seal leak within the first month...but was repaired free of cost since the bike was under warranty...

**Edge** · 09-01-2013, 09:34 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Hi buddies, one of my friend have a ktm duke. It covered 7500kms. It sounds like something is rattling inside the exhaust. But my duke sounded different until a couple of days. Before my it sounded great and had bass in its sound. Couple of days ago my duke covered 3000 kms. Now it's sound is starting to change. It is also sounding like my friend's duke at higher RPMS. But it sounds normal at lower rpms. I don't know if it is common in all dukes or is there something wrong with mine. Any info, advice from you will help me greatly. Thanks in advance

Sent from my GT-I9500 using xBhp Connect mobile app

**anilp** · 09-01-2013, 09:42 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by Edge View Post

Hi buddies, one of my friend have a ktm duke. It covered 7500kms. It sounds like something is rattling inside the exhaust. But my duke sounded different until a couple of days. Before my it sounded great and had bass in its sound. Couple of days ago my duke covered 3000 kms. Now it's sound is starting to change. It is also sounding like my friend's duke at higher RPMS. But it sounds normal at lower rpms. I don't know if it is common in all dukes or is there something wrong with mine. Any info, advice from you will help me greatly. Thanks in advance

Sent from my GT-I9500 using xBhp Connect mobile app

Nothing to worry. It's most probably just the bike settling in. I'm assuming that you've been servicing the bike at scheduled intervals.

**Edge** · 09-01-2013, 10:00 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Originally posted by anilp View Post

Nothing to worry. It's most probably just the bike settling in. I'm assuming that you've been servicing the bike at scheduled intervals.

Yeah I had my first service at 1000km. Next service is at 6000

Sent from my GT-I9500 using xBhp Connect mobile app

**whytdelight** · 09-01-2013, 11:03 PM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Hey guys,

I'm selling my baby Duke in New Delhi, India. It’s one year old (purchased on July 22,2012 from Dewan Bajaj, Lajpat Nagar, New Delhi). It’s done 3800kms and is in excellent condition. I’ve not customized it in any way so it’s just like a new bike. The break-in period has been done properly and every in service, I’ve used Motul 7100 engine oil. Have also regularly cleaned and lubricated the chain.

I’m selling it for Rs.1,15,000. If you’re genuinely interested in owning this beast, give me a call at 9811207277. I've just put up an ad on OLX too. Will share the link for anyone who's interested.

**Edd** · 09-02-2013, 10:02 AM

Re: KTM 200 Duke

Got a question about servicing. My bike's 3rd service was suppose to be done by 5th August 2013 as per the manual. SOme 200+ odd days after purchase. But as I don't ride in rains, I didn't get it done. And now that the rains have subdued, I have started riding again since last 2-3 days. Well, if I go for servicing on this weekend, would it be still be covered under 3rd free service, or will I be charged?

Announcement

KTM 200 Duke

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment