Announcement

**krishnan6015** · 06-30-2010, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by nox2505 View Post

Concept behind one way clutch:
when driven side comes to life, it must rotate faster than driver.

Driver: Starter rotates engine at around 1050 RPMs
Driven: Crank shaft- It MUST rotate at speeds atleast 100-150 RPM faster than driver. (Thats why TVS recommend 1400+/- 200 RPMs)

Theory of SVC guys:
Lower the idling RPM, better fuel efficiency (Dont know which bugger on earth gave this theory to them)
Thus after every service, they set idling RPM at 1000 or so, which is nearly equal to driver or some times lesser than that. Ultimately, this results in jamming of one way clutch and all the problems. RTR180 Engine having lower Bore:Stroke ratio than RTR160, is capable of idling at lower RPMs than RTR160 (No need to explain SVC guys set it even slower).

Preventive measures:
1. Set Idling RPM near to 1400 (in cold condition also, engine must run at 1200 RPMs atleast.

2. Use kick starter when cold, or if bike is not used for 3-4 hrs. And if you want to use starter only, trigger the starter with little throttle open and release immediately as engine comes to life.

That was my analysis. real fact may be same or different.

Great Analysis Dude!!!

**aadith84** · 06-30-2010, 01:41 PM

to all

I think most of the owners of RTR 180 are facing the Hiccup problem right!!

My bike has clocked 21000 kilometer and still I am facing these hiccup problem but the intensity is quite low. I just want to tell something that are we sure that the hiccup problem is related to carburettor of the bike and not the electrical system. Today I experimentally changed my RTR 180 IDI to 160 IDI and WHOAA!!!! the whole hiccup problem got completely vanished. Even the Head Mechanic of TVS workshop didn't have any clue to this (SHAH TVS) . I drove my vehicle nearly 180 kilometer after that but no problem at all only the idling didn't settle completely so I revert back to 180 IDI again. The most important thing is that they changed my 180 IDI with a new one but the problem still persist but whenever they are changing the 180 IDI to 160 IDI the problem got Vanished

. Now what I was thinking is that the hiccup problem is really related to the carburettor or something else....

**rennycornelius** · 06-30-2010, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by aadith84 View Post

My bike has clocked 21000 kilometer and still I am facing these hiccup problem but the intensity is quite low. I just want to tell something that are we sure that the hiccup problem is related to carburettor of the bike and not the electrical system. Today I experimentally changed my RTR 180 IDI to 160 IDI and WHOAA!!!! the whole hiccup problem got completely vanished. Even the Head Mechanic of TVS workshop didn't have any clue to this (SHAH TVS) . I drove my vehicle nearly 180 kilometer after that but no problem at all only the idling didn't settle completely so I revert back to 180 IDI again. The most important thing is that they changed my 180 IDI with a new one but the problem still persist but whenever they are changing the 180 IDI to 160 IDI the problem got Vanished

. Now what I was thinking is that the hiccup problem is really related to the carburettor or something else....

Whats that IDI???
can you post the pic of the unit?

**aadith84** · 06-30-2010, 01:50 PM

@ rennycornelius

Originally posted by rennycornelius View Post

Whats that IDI???
can you post the pic of the unit?

Sorry dude didn't have any pictures!!! By the way it is the same thing that resides below the fuel tank and most of the companies called it CDI. In case of RTR 180 it is a green colour box with a bunch of wires going into it. The 160 IDI is grey coloured.

**onlinesatish** · 06-30-2010, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by nox2505 View Post

Concept behind one way clutch:
when driven side comes to life, it must rotate faster than driver.

Driver: Starter rotates engine at around 1050 RPMs
Driven: Crank shaft- It MUST rotate at speeds atleast 100-150 RPM faster than driver. (Thats why TVS recommend 1400+/- 200 RPMs)

Theory of SVC guys:
Lower the idling RPM, better fuel efficiency (Dont know which bugger on earth gave this theory to them)
Thus after every service, they set idling RPM at 1000 or so, which is nearly equal to driver or some times lesser than that. Ultimately, this results in jamming of one way clutch and all the problems. RTR180 Engine having lower Bore:Stroke ratio than RTR160, is capable of idling at lower RPMs than RTR160 (No need to explain SVC guys set it even slower).

Preventive measures:
1. Set Idling RPM near to 1400 (in cold condition also, engine must run at 1200 RPMs atleast.

2. Use kick starter when cold, or if bike is not used for 3-4 hrs. And if you want to use starter only, trigger the starter with little throttle open and release immediately as engine comes to life.

That was my analysis. real fact may be same or different.

I wont do this! I did'nt pay so many grands to use the kick start.....let it screw up and let those buggers change it under warrenty! (this has already happened lots of time....atleast 5-6times till now

)

Let TVS realise wat mistake thy are doing when the see huge no of one way clutch in their scrapyard!

**rennycornelius** · 06-30-2010, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by onlinesatish View Post

I wont do this! I did'nt pay so many grands to use the kick start.....let it screw up and let those buggers change it under warrenty! (this has already happened lots of time....atleast 5-6times till now

)

Let TVS realise wat mistake thy are doing when the see huge no of one way clutch in their scrapyard!

You greedy warranty fella...

**onlinesatish** · 06-30-2010, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by rennycornelius View Post

You greedy warranty fella...

not greedy renny......they screw up.....they need to fix it, simple!

**rennycornelius** · 06-30-2010, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by onlinesatish View Post

not greedy renny......they screw up.....they need to fix it, simple!

True.

And in some ares they screwed up big time.

**Makky** · 06-30-2010, 10:27 PM

Me and RTR

An update from my side:

RTR is 2.5 months old and has clocked 2,5XX kms.

1. I had taken her for a small ride(of 350kms to and fro) to MMRT, Chennai in June first week to catch some action during the FMSCI championship. The bike was just great. I had to ride about 100kms on wet patches including the last 40kms in the heavy rain. There was not a single slide! TVS tyres performed very well.

Of course, I was cautious too.

2. At 2,46Xkms, I got her serviced(second) at J Kay TVS, Pondicherry.
Issues: Hiccups at lower rpm, Battery and Self start.
I shifted to Castrol Power 1(Rs. 270/-) from TVS TRU4 this time.
Battery was low on charge and hence, had to charged for a long period.
I had asked the carburettor to be cleaned. The mechanic told me later on that he has done it.

(I don't have the luxury of spending the whole day with my bike at the SVC!) I had to buy it!!
The hiccups had vanished and the self start was functional when the bike was handed over to me. The front disc was screeching and the bite was not good(Usual just after the service).

3. I had planned for a quick run to Bangalore for the weekend but thanks to my supervisor

I had to dump my ride and start late on a 6-wheeler at night. The bike was left as such for 3 days. When I returned, first thing I wanted to check was my RTR. I was bit skeptical while inserting the key itself! No self check! Even the green 'N' was off. I went for a kick start as usual and there was no effort from the bike. This went on and on for another 10-12 times. I was cursing

myself for having bought this bike......just then the RTR roared to life as if it's furious

at my behaviour! I was so happy!!

Self check goes on. Head lights fine, horn is 65% efficient.
Even now, the self start and the self check don't work! Hell! Who cares!! I am fine with the kick start as long as it continues to seduce me

!

**rennycornelius** · 06-30-2010, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by Makky View Post

1. I had taken her for a small ride(of 350kms to and fro) to MMRT, Chennai in June first week to catch some action during the FMSCI championship. The bike was just great. I had to ride about 100kms on wet patches including the last 40kms in the heavy rain. There was not a single slide! TVS tyres performed very well.

Of course, I was cautious too.

If one is more carefull around the turns in the rain on TVS rubber, they are nice.

2. At 2,46Xkms, I got her serviced(second) at J Kay TVS, Pondicherry.
Issues: Hiccups at lower rpm, Battery and Self start.
I shifted to Castrol Power 1(Rs. 270/-) from TVS TRU4 this time.
Battery was low on charge and hence, had to charged for a long period.
I had asked the carburettor to be cleaned. The mechanic told me later on that he has done it.

(I don't have the luxury of spending the whole day with my bike during the service!) I had to buy it!!
The hiccups had vanished and the self start was functional when the bike was handed over to me. The front disc was screeching and the bite was not good(Usual just after the service).

The connectors of the battery needs to be rubbed with the sandpaper and then bolt them, then apply some "Vaseline" to them.
if the connectors are "coated" the battery will not get properly charged.

3. I had planned for a quick run to Bangalore for the weekend but thanks to my supervisor

I had to dump my ride and start late on a 6-wheeler at night. The bike was left as such for 3 days. When I returned, first thing I wanted to check my RTR. I was bit skeptical while inserting the key itself! No self check! Even the green 'N' was off. I went for a kick start as usual and there was no effort from the bike. This went on and on for another 10-12. I was cursing

myself for having bought this bike......just then the RTR roared to life as if it's furious

at my behaviour! I was so happy!!

Self check goes on. Head lights fine, horn is 65% efficient.
The self start and the self check don't work! Hell! Who cares!! I am fine with the kick start as long as it continues to seduce me

!

Your battery is not retaining it's charge, either it's not getting properly charged (do the above thing i told you) or it's plates are gone, time to knock the Warranty door..

cuz once my bike was left unused for 4 days and on the 5th day it started on a single self.

Answers in BOLDS

**Makky** · 06-30-2010, 10:48 PM

^^
I am not a grease monkey to give a sandpaper rubbing to the wires and also I don't know Tamil(I am in Pondicherry), it's impossible to make the road side mechanic understand!
I had a 'great' time talking to those guys at the SVC!!

I think it's time I start doing a bit of DIY jobs!!

**rennycornelius** · 06-30-2010, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by Makky View Post

^^
I am not a grease monkey to give a sandpaper rubbing to the wires and also I don't know Tamil(I am in Pondicherry), it's impossible to make the road side mechanic understand!
I had a 'great' time talking to those guys at the SVC!!

I think it's time I start doing a bit of DIY jobs!!

Nothing like getting your hands dirty while doing a bike's work over the weekend my friend...

**jasonkumar** · 06-30-2010, 11:18 PM

Hi

I have issues with hiccups sine i got the bike ... the issue was not fixed by cleaning the curborator in every service , I am done with about 4 services till now .... one thing i have realized that the scv guys will never fix the problem until and unless u get behind them more then once . since i was visiting the scv server times , finally the scv guys decided to call the engineer .... engineer examined my bike and said that their is water deposit in my petrol tank and carborator . they cleaned the carborator and the petrol tank the issue was not fixed then the engineer replaced the coil still the issue was not fixed they wanted to change the hd coil since it was not available in the service station i need to go back tom so that they will replace hd coil and check the bike ... No idea as to what hd coil means , they have told me that they will replace the carborator if that dose not fix the problem. gods knows what they r going to do if that dose not fixes the problem ......... I will keep u guys guys update about what happens..

**f1freaker** · 07-01-2010, 03:27 AM

Few Questions on the Apache Disc Set up:

* Are the Front Disc Breaks on the Apache 160 / Apache 180 the same ?
* whats the Fork Leg length ?? (not the Fork Tube Length)

**chicane1879** · 07-02-2010, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by nox2505 View Post

Concept behind one way clutch:
when driven side comes to life, it must rotate faster than driver.

Driver: Starter rotates engine at around 1050 RPMs
Driven: Crank shaft- It MUST rotate at speeds atleast 100-150 RPM faster than driver. (Thats why TVS recommend 1400+/- 200 RPMs)

Theory of SVC guys:
Lower the idling RPM, better fuel efficiency (Dont know which bugger on earth gave this theory to them)
Thus after every service, they set idling RPM at 1000 or so, which is nearly equal to driver or some times lesser than that. Ultimately, this results in jamming of one way clutch and all the problems. RTR180 Engine having lower Bore:Stroke ratio than RTR160, is capable of idling at lower RPMs than RTR160 (No need to explain SVC guys set it even slower).

Preventive measures:
1. Set Idling RPM near to 1400 (in cold condition also, engine must run at 1200 RPMs atleast.

2. Use kick starter when cold, or if bike is not used for 3-4 hrs. And if you want to use starter only, trigger the starter with little throttle open and release immediately as engine comes to life.

That was my analysis. real fact may be same or different.

Originally posted by chicane1879 View Post

The problem can be attributed to the battery and charging system. When the battery voltage drops as the engine is spun by the starter, the sudden voltage drop can confuse the CDI which controls the coil and send a premature spark to the plug. This in turn gives the effect of advanced timing and a slight kick back occurs, This kickback can put strain on the one way sprag clutch and cause failure in this component. The spark delay unit will cut out the spark momentarily on start up. Thus allowing the engine to get spinning and overcoming the voltage drop problem and sending a spark when the load has become lighter on the starter.Also in many cases a low-charged battery can damage the one-way clutch.

The Sprag clutch and starter issues are related and mostly results from backfire/ignition issues. Which is why it is mostly advised that KS be used for a cold start, when there is more chance of a kickback.

Note: One of the prime causes for the gears and/or the sprag to break is the engine backfiring/premature ignition.So in a way the CDi might be the culprit here which fails in sensing the correct timing during the compression stroke.So my friend advising not to over-rev the bike while using the starter motor makes sense!!

^^Here's mine.But i still couldnt find the idling rpm the reason behind the one-way clutch failures. AFAIK, the TCI unit is the culprit behind the one-way clutch failures.

Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post

What should i ask them to do? Should i directly ask them to check the crankshaft? Because i think they are going to tell me the crankshaft is fine.

Ask the head of the service department to have a look on your bike and ask him to diagnose and point out the real reason for the issue. If he fails, then only ask them to check the crankshaft.

Originally posted by rennycornelius View Post

Whats that IDI???
can you post the pic of the unit?

It's the CDI unit which is coined as I-Di by TVS(Inductive Digital Ignition). This unit has the ability to generate 1200 microseconds long sparks of energy(6 times more than a normal CDi) and also fires twice as fast as compared to conventional units which ultimately aids in providing better combustion.

Announcement

TVS Apache RTR 180

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