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Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

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  • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

    Originally posted by monisab2003 View Post
    Our forum is really a great stable for ZMR owners and almost anything related to ZMR are found here. Thanks to everyone for building such a strong database.

    Now coming to my issue, I had a trip from Chennai to Bangalore on this weekend, while returning and when I was half a kilometre away from my home, noticed the PGM Fi started blinking. (2long 1 short), the light stayed on continously when throttle input was given, and blinked when kept idle. Though, engine was running without issues and so I reached my home safely. Next day after surfing in our beloved forum, got to know that there is an issue with Lambda Sensor. On observing my ZMR, I noticed that the wire was cut and was dangling there. I stilled used the bike in the same condition today and thought of fixing it in the evening.
    Here comes the twist of the tale, with lambda sensor disconnected, I have observed the following changes in my ride.

    1. RTMI figures went up by minimum of 10-15 kmpl for every RPM - gear relations than the normal observation. Ex. @65kmph, RTMI was 70 kmpl
    2. Throttle response at low end was better and smoother idling.
    3. No change in engine heat dissipation level (remains same as when lambda was connected)

    Note: Rimula R3 is currently doing the duty and these above changes are observed after 1800 kms with Rimula R3, a long ride (780kms) and lambda sensor got disconnected.

    Now I am wondering whether I need to connect back the sensor or to keep it as such.
    @Divya Sharan, @psr sir, @rreneav1987 any suggestions?
    From my understanding, the lambda sensor is the O2 sensor and it helps to measure the concentration of oxygen remaining in the exhaust gas to allow an Power Control Module to control the efficiency of the combustion process in the chambers... which definitely mean it could be the reason for the low FE.

    Now that said, I might have to see how the condition of my bike's O2 sensor is. i am getting less FE than how it used to give 6 months back..
    Splendor - 2k to 2006
    Karizma - 2k3 to 2009
    P180 - 2k6 to 2k9
    Hunk - Oct 2k7 til now
    ZMR - 2010 to Forever
    RX135(2k) - 2013 to 2018
    Ninja 250R (2010) - 2016 til now
    RayZ - 2015 til now
    Ninja 650 (2014) - 2017 til now


    Delhi to Narkanda
    Delhi to Coimbatore
    Delhi to Nepal

    Comment


    • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

      Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post
      From my understanding, the lambda sensor is the O2 sensor and it helps to measure the concentration of oxygen remaining in the exhaust gas to allow an Power Control Module to control the efficiency of the combustion process in the chambers... which definitely mean it could be the reason for the low FE.

      Now that said, I might have to see how the condition of my bike's O2 sensor is. i am getting less FE than how it used to give 6 months back..
      I guess you have conceived my issue the other way. I am observing way more efficiency than what I used to see earlier.

      When the lambda sensor not on its role, the system would run richer which should only bring down my vehicle's efficiency level. But it's happening inversely.

      Comment


      • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

        Originally posted by monisab2003 View Post
        I guess you have conceived my issue the other way. I am observing way more efficiency than what I used to see earlier.

        When the lambda sensor not on its role, the system would run richer which should only bring down my vehicle's efficiency level. But it's happening inversely.
        Ah! I read it the other way.. How is that even possible? :-o

        It should bring down the efficiency!
        Splendor - 2k to 2006
        Karizma - 2k3 to 2009
        P180 - 2k6 to 2k9
        Hunk - Oct 2k7 til now
        ZMR - 2010 to Forever
        RX135(2k) - 2013 to 2018
        Ninja 250R (2010) - 2016 til now
        RayZ - 2015 til now
        Ninja 650 (2014) - 2017 til now


        Delhi to Narkanda
        Delhi to Coimbatore
        Delhi to Nepal

        Comment


        • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

          Originally posted by monisab2003 View Post
          I guess you have conceived my issue the other way. I am observing way more efficiency than what I used to see earlier.

          When the lambda sensor not on its role, the system would run richer which should only bring down my vehicle's efficiency level. But it's happening inversely.
          With the O2 sensor not in the ECM's sensing, ECM will automatically go into open loop mode....The ECM had already learned your driving habit, and so it will be present inside the ECM memory...so using that the ECM is calculating the AFR for a given throttle position and RPM...Since the wire seems to have got cut while returning on a long journey, ECM has That run in it's memory and using it....
          If the battery gets disconnected, then all of this memory will be lost and ECM will start using the Standard OE preset settings....hope this is helpful..
          When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

          Comment


          • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

            Originally posted by monisab2003 View Post
            I guess you have conceived my issue the other way. I am observing way more efficiency than what I used to see earlier.

            When the lambda sensor not on its role, the system would run richer which should only bring down my vehicle's efficiency level. But it's happening inversely.
            This is because your bike's ECU has recorded your riding pattern in its memory. The temporary maps are doing the job currently.

            Edit - Raghavan sir just explained it more clearly.
            Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
            Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

            Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
            Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
            ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
            P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

            Comment


            • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

              Originally posted by psr View Post
              With the O2 sensor not in the ECM's sensing, ECM will automatically go into open loop mode....The ECM had already learned your driving habit, and so it will be present inside the ECM memory...so using that the ECM is calculating the AFR for a given throttle position and RPM...Since the wire seems to have got cut while returning on a long journey, ECM has That run in it's memory and using it....
              If the battery gets disconnected, then all of this memory will be lost and ECM will start using the Standard OE preset settings....hope this is helpful..
              But what about the increase in mileage? He claims almost 12 kmpl increase!!
              Splendor - 2k to 2006
              Karizma - 2k3 to 2009
              P180 - 2k6 to 2k9
              Hunk - Oct 2k7 til now
              ZMR - 2010 to Forever
              RX135(2k) - 2013 to 2018
              Ninja 250R (2010) - 2016 til now
              RayZ - 2015 til now
              Ninja 650 (2014) - 2017 til now


              Delhi to Narkanda
              Delhi to Coimbatore
              Delhi to Nepal

              Comment


              • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post
                But what about the increase in mileage? He claims almost 12 kmpl increase!!
                RTMI increase is irrelevant as it just shows the average FE on the last 8 seconds of riding pattern and it keeps on cycling every 8 seconds. I sometimes see 199 kmpl (yes you read it right!).
                RTMI = real world mileage only on the highways with a steady riding pattern.

                Real world mileage if increasing drastically might sadly link to a fuel pump failure about to happen soon. I've seen everyone reporting an increased FE by 7-10 kmpl a few months before the pumps died.
                Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                Comment


                • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                  Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                  RTMI increase is irrelevant as it just shows the average FE on the last 8 seconds of riding pattern and it keeps on cycling every 8 seconds. I sometimes see 199 kmpl (yes you read it right!). [emoji14]
                  RTMI = real world mileage only on the highways with a steady riding pattern.

                  Real world mileage if increasing drastically might sadly link to a fuel pump failure about to happen soon. I've seen everyone reporting an increased FE by 7-10 kmpl a few months before the pumps died.
                  Whoa!! That's going to be a costly affair!

                  Yes, I have seen 199 too.. lol
                  Splendor - 2k to 2006
                  Karizma - 2k3 to 2009
                  P180 - 2k6 to 2k9
                  Hunk - Oct 2k7 til now
                  ZMR - 2010 to Forever
                  RX135(2k) - 2013 to 2018
                  Ninja 250R (2010) - 2016 til now
                  RayZ - 2015 til now
                  Ninja 650 (2014) - 2017 til now


                  Delhi to Narkanda
                  Delhi to Coimbatore
                  Delhi to Nepal

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                    Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                    RTMI increase is irrelevant as it just shows the average FE on the last 8 seconds of riding pattern and it keeps on cycling every 8 seconds. I sometimes see 199 kmpl (yes you read it right!).
                    RTMI = real world mileage only on the highways with a steady riding pattern.

                    Real world mileage if increasing drastically might sadly link to a fuel pump failure about to happen soon. I've seen everyone reporting an increased FE by 7-10 kmpl a few months before the pumps died.
                    Thanks [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] sir & [MENTION=41586]Divya Sharan[/MENTION] for your inputs.

                    [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] sir: But, how is that even possible that the ride has become a lot more smoother? Is it due richer fuel mixture as the vehicle is always in open loop mode? Will it be a problem in the long run if this O2 sensor is not connected to system?
                    Any problem to fuel pump?

                    I assume that ZMR is always on closed loop since, the current behavior of the bike, be its fuel efficiency or engine smoothness, it all got changed at any given level of throttle inputs. Is my observation correct?

                    [MENTION=41586]Divya Sharan[/MENTION]: I have observed this increased KMPL during my daily office commute for the past three days which itself is on highways. So, the given figures are found during steady throttle inputs only. Even I have observed the 199KMPL stuff so many times and I have an understanding of how this RTMI figure fluctuates, but I am sure that is not the current case here.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                      Originally posted by monisab2003 View Post
                      Thanks @psr sir & @Divya Sharan for your inputs.

                      @psr sir: But, how is that even possible that the ride has become a lot more smoother? Is it due richer fuel mixture as the vehicle is always in open loop mode? Will it be a problem in the long run if this O2 sensor is not connected to system?
                      Any problem to fuel pump?

                      I assume that ZMR is always on closed loop since, the current behavior of the bike, be its fuel efficiency or engine smoothness, it all got changed at any given level of throttle inputs. Is my observation correct?

                      @Divya Sharan: I have observed this increased KMPL during my daily office commute for the past three days which itself is on highways. So, the given figures are found during steady throttle inputs only. Even I have observed the 199KMPL stuff so many times and I have an understanding of how this RTMI figure fluctuates, but I am sure that is not the current case here.
                      An open loop means no real time AFR monitoring and ECU selects the next best higher Fuel ratio...ie., marginally richer...If you still see better RTMI , then like Mr.Divya Sharan said, be prepared for Fuel Pump failure.....But with the O2 sensor out of the loop , predicting it may not be accurate, since the ECU is indicating from past records it is holding in memory...
                      Remember ONLY during steady cruising will the ECU be in closed loop. Slightly increase throttle or close throttle, ECU will switch to real time , ie., open loop to get real time O2 sensor values to make fresh calculations .
                      When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                        Guys, is the ZMR BS-IV compliant?
                        I'm made to believe that all FI engines are BS-IV. Is that correct?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                          Originally posted by Harvinder View Post
                          Guys, is the ZMR BS-IV compliant?
                          I'm made to believe that all FI engines are BS-IV. Is that correct?
                          That is surely not correct. There is a reason why manufacturers like KTM ended up making their motorcycles heavier with marginal reductions in performance levels. All their products come with FI but major changes were required to make them BS4 compliant.

                          Of course, FI engines are more efficient and have better combustion properties. But that alone wouldn't make them compliant with the latest emission norms.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                            So ZMR is not BS-IV compliant?

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                              Originally posted by Harvinder View Post
                              So ZMR is not BS-IV compliant?
                              Nope, not as per my understanding.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hero Honda Karizma ZMR

                                Originally posted by Harvinder View Post
                                So ZMR is not BS-IV compliant?
                                All Hero bikes till date are BS3 compliant.
                                Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                                Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                                Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                                Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                                ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                                P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                                Comment

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