Re: Karizma/Karizma R

As I mentioned before, I have replaced Cam Chain, Cam Shaft, Cam sprocket, and new bore kit, along with cleaning and seating of valves. Unfortunately, found lots of smoke coming out the next day after the bike was idle for the whole night. It waned off after a few minutes. The same smoke returned in the evening too after the bike was kept idle for 4-5 hours. Valve stem seals were suspected to be leaky, and today opened the head to check at a service center known to Shoeb's place. Shoeb's post above says what all happened. The suspicion of exhaust valve stem seal leak was ruled out as no trace of oil found in the exhaust manifold. The intake manifold looked the same. What shocked and puzzled us was the presence of oil on cylinder head (pics posted in above post).

The suspicion was leaking head gasket coupled with leaking piston rings (not exactly sure if they are leaking). Put a new head gasket and piston rings were realigned 120 degrees apart and fixed the engine back. Rode back home, and sadly the same lower RPM knocking that was there before was still there, and it was more evident when the engine was very hot with colder climate outside (in hot climate of day time, knocking was less).

I am hoping for proper sealing of gasket, valve stem seals, and piston rings, and it will be known tomorrow morning.

This is how its smoking. My bike is smoking hot ZMA!!

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Update: I am happy to say that there was NO smoke from the exhaust when the bike is started in the morning. Replaced the smoked old spark plug with new one (Hero OEM made by Mico). The cause for the engine oil in the combustion chamber is the cylinder/gasket internal leak. Engine oil from the oil gallery passage leaked into the chamber (no valve stem seal leak, which would be the other cause for slightly blue exhaust smoke after the bike is kept idle for hours). Explored the reasons for this leak and two possibilities were pointed out. One is accidental use of chamber paste on the gasket, which is not supposed to be done; and the second one is, bent steel gasket in the packing carton of bore kit. The supplied gasket in the bore kit carton was bent, which was straightened out and used. May be the oil leaked from the bent area of the gasket.

As for my slight lower rpm knocking (its there on higher rpms too after 5k), its still there unfortunately. Maybe the carb has some minute issues that we are not able to identify. I am planning to swap the carb from another Karizma and see if the problem will be resolved.

After all these episodes, I am confident now that I can fix the engine myself, provided I get all the tools. I actively participated in the engine build twice in the last two days . Instead of learning from other experiences, my bike is making me learn on my own.

Today, I went to my mechanic and saw him rebuilding Shine's engine. I actively participated in it and explained him how the engine works and whats the importance of timing and proper valve clearance. After the engine is rebuild, he started the engine without the exhaust in place (he was waiting for the exhaust gasket). I took a video of the exhaust valve in action, and its awesome!

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Now, do you re-collect what I had told you yesterday about the flame continuing upto the bend of the exhaust ?

Did you ask your mechanic if he had applied any sealant on gasket ? I sill think that the excess sealant applied on the head cover, managed to seep from the studs and got in between the head gasket and mating surface near the oil gallery.
We had evidence, sealant was there even in the dowel pin and main oil gallery, partially choking it.

Swap the carburetor if possible.

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Yes, he applied slightly. They do it if they are using an old gasket (sometimes customers wont pay for new gasket). He applied just like that. I told him not to do so for cylinder/head gaskets.

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

What was the reason for him to apply sealant in patches/non-uniformly ? He could have applied it evenly.
Anyway now the oil leak is solved and we got a lesson to learn from it.

Anyway, whenever you get time, we will meet. I would like to take a test ride on an open road.
In that short test ride I took in traffic with lot of disturbance, I was able to distinguish four kinds of noise.
1. Knocking in lower gears.
2.Krrr sound from tensioner side.
3. Loose tappets.
4. Slight sound from clutch side(GPT or bell).

2,3 and 4 are minor can be taken care of later.
For now, knocking has to be solved on priority basis.

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

How they perform? Rs. 90 is damn cheap!

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Not the best but they perform as good as the RTR brake pads.

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

@ Ravi & Shoeb- Was little late in replying as was busy in family picnic. So sorry for that.But i was in constant touch with [MENTION=14414]shoeb[/MENTION] on phone. The re-built job was not done perfectly which was causing the smoking of the exhaust. As shoeb had told me some of the defects that he noticed:-1. Circular grooves on the valves:- This happens when valves are polished on drill machines as the fast rotation of the drill causes the grinding paste to cause circular grooves on the valves as the fast rotation of valves with the grinding paste causes the valve seat to get extreme hot and causes grooves on the valve seats. It is always best to polish the valves by hand. It is time consuming but my mechanic and i always vouch for it. Let me add here:- " No matter how many machines men may make but still the best machine is given by god, our hands".2. Head gasket- Once it is bent then nothing can be done, you have to buy a new one.Also gasket sealant cannot be used on karizma/cbz extreme/pleasure/ pro series bike as these bikes have no o-ring in their head gasket which will make the sealant to flow into oil gallery and stud when gasket is compressed. Sealant can only be used on old model splendor engine as those engines has two o-rings on both oil gallery which prevents sealant or oil leaking from both sides.3. Rings placement- Shoeb also told me that the rings has not been placed properly. It was great of him to help you out and according to his saying he has perfectly placed the ring. The day he phoned me of smoking after engine re-built immediately i asked him to open the top end of engine and check as something was wrong which can be accessed only after opening the head and bore.Glad to know that your problem was solved and extremely thankful of [MENTION=14414]shoeb[/MENTION] for helping you out. Many thanks to shoeb.Also yesterday night we were talking of your knocking problem and from the description that shoeb gave me it is sure a carb problem. Swap carb from a good karizma and check, only let the bike idle on the other carb and the idle will tell the story, nothing to do more.When my Joy carb was gone some problem we faced were:-1. Engine knocking on getting hot.2. Engine not idling slowly and idle adjustment was difficult.3. Low power and head getting carbon so much that de-carbonization was done in 10K regularily.After change of carburettor every problem was gone and bike idled beautifully at low idle, one kick even in cold without throttle would also cause the engine to idle beautifully, pick up improved dramatically and also head even after 30k had less carbon deposits. Engine knocking is not there from that day.So i would asvice you and Shoeb to swap a carburettor and check, i am 100% sure your problem will be taken care of.

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

Any suggestion my cab still leaking. My mechanic clean the cab two days ago but still issue remain same.


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Re: Karizma/Karizma R

@sibun, thanks for the inputs. Unfortunately, I have noticed the exhaust smoke today morning, though it was less intense than before. This indicates, still there is a problem with gasket. Today morning when I was speaking to @psr, I recollected a slightly deformed dowel pin due to accidental hit by lathe worker. My mechanic put that in place with force by a tool. Maybe this could be one of the reason too. Now I need to open the engine again, put new dowel pins and gasket and reseal it.

Regarding the carb, I need to get another karizma, which am unable to get now as few of my ZMA friends are out of station or in office. I would clean the carb slide as told by Shoeb and psr and would update you on that.

Guess, I shouldn't have replaced the bore in first place. The old one was working fine without any exhaust smoke or oil consumption. When I opened the head, seems the valves were seating properly, except for the carbon formation on the back of the intake valve. Anyway, lets see how it goes.

I sincerely thank Shoeb for his inputs and time in solving my bike's issues.



Leaking from where?

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

From down side just below were fuel and air screw and its looks like bike is overflowing.


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Re: Karizma/Karizma R

There is a gasket between the float bowl and the carb main body. If its faulty, fuel would leak. If the bowl is overflowing, the excess fuel is drained in to the pipe connected at the bottom of the float bowl. Faulty float valve causes overflowing of the bowl (the float valve is not closing properly even after enough fuel is there in the bowl).

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

I think they are two float value in cab and they are made of plastic which goes up and down. That is called float value ? So i have to replaced them or any other way to fix it.


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Re: Karizma/Karizma R

First off, thanks to [MENTION=43108]shoeb2015[/MENTION], [MENTION=28527]sibun[/MENTION] and [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] (and anyone else who's been helping Ravi). Shoeb and Sibun, can't appreciate it enough that you guys go out of your way so much to help a fellow biker. This is true of some people in this forum that I've had the pleasure of talking to.

It was interesting to see the pictures as well, and I had a notion that the valves shouldn't have been polished with the paste on a machine as too much metal would be lost. My mechanic friend uses 600 to 800 grit and then higher if needed, followed by a 2K rubbing paste all by hand. Sibun, not grooves, since grooves won't be left, but more metal will be taken off, and there's a possibility of uneven polishing as well.
I asked my mechanic friend here and he said there's a possibility that the rings are also not sealing properly thereby leading to oil leakage into the chamber.
[MENTION=11210]ravi@17bhp[/MENTION], I hope you get your problems sorted out soon. You've been persevering with the bike and with some time and effort, you'll get it running to satisfaction. Good luck!

Re: Karizma/Karizma R

The thread is now active with Tech data , thanks to [MENTION=6275]Ravi[/MENTION] , Shoebe, and Sibun ......I guess I had spent more time over the phone with Ravi , and had not posted much since I had not much info . The way I see it is the damaged Dowel pins, and gasket are the main causes for the oil leak into the Cylinder and smoking , and the Carburetor slide is the cause for the Knocking ....I had asked Ravi to look for small hole/leak in the rubber skirt of Slide ,cut 3 turns from slide spring ,add 0.4mm thin washer under the throttle needle , and give the bike a try....
Though Ravi's woes are continuing , his reporting of the sequence of events ,and the remedies suggested, will become the reference for future generation/members of this thread.