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Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

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  • #18286
    Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

    Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
    I meant just remove the soot from the top of the piston and clean the ports and valves.
    And regarding snorkelling/de-snorkelling, only the seat needs to be opened. It's just plug and play. Air box need not be touched.
    Today i went to my private mechanic for decarb, he refused to do saying that 4 stroke engines doesn't require decarb. I will do it at ASC then.

    I tried removing snorkel by hand, its not coming out easily.

    Comment

    • #18287
      Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

      Originally posted by ankit.traveller View Post
      Today i went to my private mechanic for decarb, he refused to do saying that 4 stroke engines doesn't require decarb. I will do it at ASC then.

      I tried removing snorkel by hand, its not coming out easily.
      Your mechanic isn't entirely wrong. But not all carbon built over time can be removed without going in for a de-carb.
      Another way is to red line the bike through all gears once in a while to burn all (or most) carbon deposits.

      You cannot just yank the snorkel out. It has grooves and is put in place with glue like material. Twist it to take it out.

      Originally posted by VR. View Post
      @Divya Sharan : Just a quick question bro.. The smell from the exhaust seems to be so unpleasant and it gives an impression as if the combustion is not proper.

      This is felt at all times and not only during cold starts.

      Still there is some other sound seen, which I am not really sure about. No drop in oil levels seen.

      Are these symptoms related to the issue that you had posted by any chance ? I am not sure though.
      Well, piston slapping is a prominent sound and it would happen all the time. If it largely happens on a warm/hot engine - check valves (clearances as well as play). It can be as simple as the rocker arms having developed play.
      What AFR settings are you running on by the way? How many turns?
      Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
      Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

      Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
      Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
      ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
      P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

      Comment

      • #18288
        Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

        Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
        Well, piston slapping is a prominent sound and it would happen all the time. If it largely happens on a warm/hot engine - check valves (clearances as well as play). It can be as simple as the rocker arms having developed play.
        What AFR settings are you running on by the way? How many turns?
        Thanks for the response [MENTION=41586]Divya Sharan[/MENTION].

        My current AFR setting is 3.5 turns.

        Can you elaborate on piston slapping ? Is it something to worry about ?
        Jet Set Go!!!


        My Rides :
        Bajaj Discover 135 DTS-i (2008 June - 2015 July)
        Bajaj Pulsar 220F (2014 Nov - Till date)
        Hero Honda Karizma R 2012 model (2015 July - Till date)


        Comment

        • #18289
          Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

          Originally posted by VR. View Post
          Can you elaborate on piston slapping ? Is it something to worry about ?
          Piston slap is the secondary movement of a piston against the side of the cylinder bore.
          This perpendicular moving piston comes in contact with the vertical movement of the cylinder bore, causing that audible noise.

          It is referred to as piston slap, pinging, permanent-knocking etc. It is a serious issue which can be completely solved only with new internals, but you can defer the replacement to an extent with Nulon.
          Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
          Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

          Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
          Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
          ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
          P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

          Comment

          • #18290
            Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

            Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
            but you can defer the replacement to an extent with Nulon.
            Divya bhai, once i used nulon in my fiero engine back in 2002. While engine got smooth but clutch plates was damaged due to this and was slipping massively immediately after using nulon.

            Comment

            • #18291
              Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

              Originally posted by ankit.traveller View Post
              Divya bhai, once i used nulon in my fiero engine back in 2002. While engine got smooth but clutch plates was damaged due to this and was slipping massively immediately after using nulon.
              Yes, that's why I said use it only if you're looking to extract some more life out of the engine before going for a rebuild. A couple of people here are using it, they're happy having postponed the engine work. But clutch slippage isn't as scary as in your post above.
              Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
              Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

              Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
              Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
              ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
              P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

              Comment

              • #18292
                Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                Piston slap is the secondary movement of a piston against the side of the cylinder bore.
                This perpendicular moving piston comes in contact with the vertical movement of the cylinder bore, causing that audible noise.

                It is referred to as piston slap, pinging, permanent-knocking etc. It is a serious issue which can be completely solved only with new internals, but you can defer the replacement to an extent with Nulon.
                One thing that I was worried about was the fact that my ride has clocked only 36000kms till date.

                Is piston slap a common occurrence mileages approx 35000kms?

                Is there any precautions that I need to adhere to before going in for internals replacement?

                I am currently running on 10w30 mineral oil which I usually get it changed in ASC. Will upgrading to a higher grade oil help?

                When I did some googling on Nulon, I came across a few posts on semi synthetic or full synthetic oils. Will they be of any use to this piston slap, as these oils are said to have additives compared to mineral ones?

                Thanks in advance bro!!! :-)

                I think I have shot a lot of questions.

                I was only trying to understand if I could postpone my replacement job a bit. :-)
                Jet Set Go!!!


                My Rides :
                Bajaj Discover 135 DTS-i (2008 June - 2015 July)
                Bajaj Pulsar 220F (2014 Nov - Till date)
                Hero Honda Karizma R 2012 model (2015 July - Till date)


                Comment

                • #18293
                  Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                  Originally posted by VR. View Post

                  I am currently running on 10w30 mineral oil which I usually get it changed in ASC. Will upgrading to a higher grade oil help?

                  When I did some googling on Nulon, I came across a few posts on semi synthetic or full synthetic oils. Will they be of any use to this piston slap, as these oils are said to have additives compared to mineral
                  Bro i am using FS oil from 5k odo and till now i am on 51k odo. I think in long run FS oil silently damages cylinder or valvetrain in these type of engines of indian bikes (low compression/old metallurgy) coz FS oil can easily more seep through gaskets/piston rings compared to mineral oil. My engine also developed piston slap, though i rode very lean mixture during ladakh trip that may cause piston slap/knocking but FS oil is also the culprit. I am going for compression test/decarb and after that i will stick to mineral oil again.

                  ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

                  Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                  Yes, that's why I said use it only if you're looking to extract some more life out of the engine before going for a rebuild. A couple of people here are using it, they're happy having postponed the engine work. But clutch slippage isn't as scary as in your post above.
                  Divya bhai..as oil consumption is nil right now, I will go for decarb only as of now. ASC quoted labour charge 500/- for decarb. Consumables extra. Is it right cost? Also they said whole engine need to dismantle for decarb? Will they bring out piston from bore?

                  Comment

                  • #18294
                    Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                    Originally posted by ankit.traveller View Post

                    Divya bhai..as oil consumption is nil right now, I will go for decarb only as of now. ASC quoted labour charge 500/- for decarb. Consumables extra. Is it right cost? Also they said whole engine need to dismantle for decarb? Will they bring out piston from bore?
                    Around 10 years ago, my Splendor's engine was de-carbonized for almost same cost at an ASC. It was a shocker for me as we just got upgraded from an LML Vespa which had almost nil maintenance I think the cost is okay for a ZMA as it involves changing of couple of gaskets and seals.
                    AFAIK, whole engine won't be dismantled, only the head needs to be removed which gives them access to piston top.
                    Divya, correct me if I'm wrong.

                    Comment

                    • #18295
                      Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                      Originally posted by ankit.traveller View Post
                      Divya bhai..as oil consumption is nil right now, I will go for decarb only as of now. ASC quoted labour charge 500/- for decarb. Consumables extra. Is it right cost? Also they said whole engine need to dismantle for decarb? Will they bring out piston from bore?
                      Rs 500 is a teeny tiny bit high, but then I don't know ASC charges well. Never been to one for 5+ years.
                      But rest assured, the whole engine will not be dismantled, they'll only open the top part from the head to access the piston.

                      Originally posted by SatSon View Post
                      AFAIK, whole engine won't be dismantled, only the head needs to be removed which gives them access to piston top.
                      Divya, correct me if I'm wrong.
                      Exactly!
                      Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                      Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                      Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                      Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                      ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                      P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                      Comment

                      • #18296
                        Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                        Originally posted by SatSon View Post
                        Around 10 years ago, my Splendor's engine was de-carbonized for almost same cost at an ASC. It was a shocker for me as we just got upgraded from an LML Vespa which had almost nil maintenance I think the cost is okay for a ZMA as it involves changing of couple of gaskets and seals.
                        AFAIK, whole engine won't be dismantled, only the head needs to be removed which gives them access to piston top.
                        Divya, correct me if I'm wrong.
                        Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                        Rs 500 is a teeny tiny bit high, but then I don't know ASC charges well. Never been to one for 5+ years.
                        But rest assured, the whole engine will not be dismantled, they'll only open the top part from the head to access the piston.
                        Exactly!
                        Thanks both of you. Will do it asap and post feedback after decarb.

                        ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

                        Forgot to mention..for last few days I m observing engine oil deposits in air filter box, it is like oil is deposited like thick drops I can see oil drop on my finger if I rub it from airbox surface.
                        Correct me if m wrong is it a blowby of engine oil from crankcase breather tube due to high compression which is result of carbon deposits or damaged piston rings which is creating more pressure in crankcase?

                        Comment

                        • #18297
                          Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                          Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                          Rs 500 is a teeny tiny bit high, but then I don't know ASC charges well. Never been to one for 5+ years.
                          But rest assured, the whole engine will not be dismantled, they'll only open the top part from the head to access the piston.
                          Exactly!
                          On de-carbonizing, the cylinder upper gasket and the head cover gasket needs to be replaced right?
                          Karizma being the costliest from the Hero lot, I think the cost of gaskets/consumables and labor will come around 500 I think

                          Comment

                          • #18298
                            Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                            Originally posted by SatSon View Post
                            On de-carbonizing, the cylinder upper gasket and the head cover gasket needs to be replaced right?
                            Yes, those gaskets need replacement.

                            Originally posted by SatSon View Post
                            Karizma being the costliest from the Hero lot, I think the cost of gaskets/consumables and labor will come around 500 I think
                            But he mentioned only labor charges as Rs 500 and consumables extra - hence my comment!
                            Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                            Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                            Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                            Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                            ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                            P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                            Comment

                            • #18299
                              Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                              Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post
                              Yes, those gaskets need replacement.



                              But he mentioned only labor charges as Rs 500 and consumables extra - hence my comment!
                              I dont know why...today also I called ASC mechanic to confirm and he said for decarb piston will be out from bore, even my private mechanic saying same?

                              Yes 500 is only labour charge.

                              Comment

                              • #18300
                                Re: Karizma/Karizma R Ownership Experience

                                Originally posted by ankit.traveller View Post
                                I dont know why...today also I called ASC mechanic to confirm and he said for decarb piston will be out from bore, even my private mechanic saying same?
                                They will scrub off the deposited carbon that way. Wherever you get it done, ensure they don't use a screw driver/blade to remove the deposited carbon. A very soft carbon paper may be used and one has to be gentle with the whole process.
                                Got a $5 head? Get a $5 helmet.
                                Because everyone who passes, isn't a martyr!

                                Bullet Service Guide CBR 250R Parts Manual Fz16 service manual - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1-...VFQmJzakk/view
                                Hero Moto Corp Bikes' Parts RE STD 350 Wiring Diagram (CI) Service Manual - Classic 350/500
                                ZMR parts - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-U...it?usp=sharing
                                P200NS Spares' prices - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...taGd5R2c#gid=0

                                Comment

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