^^ +1. Braking is incomplete without engine braking. Brakes alone doesn't work out in all situations.

Let me pour some fuel in the fire... ... ^^^ not exactly true... engines are made to accelerate a vehicle and move it at a speed, while breaks are meant to slow a vehicle and bring it to a stop. Don't believe it? Read "A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code (the bible of motorcycle riding), Chapter "Braking", Page 68, "The Engine is not a Brake!"; I quote "... At any place where you have to use the breaks and downshift at the same time, it is not efficient or correct to use the engine to slow you... and using engine means you're going to have to replace the crank and pistons sooner... its cheaper to replace brake pads than crankshafts..." "The purpose of downshifting is to bring the engine into the right rpm range as you begin to accelerate out of a turn".

For skeptics, the above book is endorse by 2 World Champions who have won 7 world championships between them i.e. King Kenny Roberts and Steady Eddie Lawson.

Now, I think its time to get out of here before the **** hits the fan....

I didn't mean everytime everywhere. Corners, loose soil and downhill, engine braking is inevitable (running in lower gears, not putting 1st frm 5th at last moment )

You Devil!!

My 2 paisas:
While slowing down, you should always be in a gear. You should not brake with your clutch pulled in.
If you accept the above statement, while slowing down from say 5th gear you mostly will have to downshift while braking.

What I have practiced:
Say I'm in 5th gear and see a red light approaching.
Right hand and leg are engaging the brakes.
And when slow enough, the left hand and leg downshift (without letting the brakes go).
Repeat till standstill at the red light.

IMHO, making use of engine braking does not mean you downshift three gears as soon as you want to stop. Or one gear if you want to scrub your speed, a bit.

:-)
Here we go

Quote 1:
How to Shift Gears for Gas Mileage | eHow.com

Avoid engine braking. With a manual or automatic with override, it is possible to downshift and lower the vehicle's speed via engine braking. This technique requires running the engine at higher RPMs, which results in lower fuel economy. Using your brake pads instead of engine braking will not only save gas, it will also save wear and tear on the clutch and transmission.

Quote 2:
Safety Tip of the Week – Downshifting During Emergency Braking The Upright Motorcycle Brigade

also if you downshift regularly, you will try to downshift even in an emergency situation as per your habit.. Not advisable!
:-)

^^^ One video and so much healthy discussion ... good to know..

my two cents based on my experience... i usually prefer using engine braking technique when riding on ghats or b roads on the mountains where constantly using brakes reduces the life of them very quickly and one risks the brakes overheating. Especially when going a steep down hill, engine braking helps a lot. I haven't witnessed any drop in engine life/engine oil level or reduction in mileage or any other mechanical trouble using the same technique for over 18000+ kms. Although i do agree that if one uses engine braking like they do it on race tracks.. the life span of the engine will be completely different/less then that of a street used engine.

Using engine braking along with brakes slightly to slow down does reduce the stopping distance drastically... i ended up experimenting it today after a long time and found it to be true. However, i do believe that using this on an everyday ride will end up ruining your engine in the long run...

Senior riders are more then welcome to add their pointers or two.. Lucky Luke how about your comments/suggestions on this one?


Cheers

My chain and sprockets require a change and its been 17K kms. Is that too soon, too late or just about the right time?

Chains & sprockets can last anywhere between 15-20,000 kms... so if your chain and sprockets require a change go ahead with it.


Cheers

Any recent FZ owners in Bangalore, can you provide me the break up of the price...

After reading all the inputs from ppl over Engine braking it seems quite evident that ppl stand divided over the issue.
May it be, after all that's how the world spins

Nikhil bro u have perfectly written down the technique. That is exactly how i do it too.

To add to it, i always shift down after i see the RPM fall below 5000 after wheel braking
When it hits 4000rpm shift down again and repeat the process till complete stop.
and i do rev matching, slight dab to accelerator to get the rev back up to 5000.

The Positive effects are

1> one is always in the right gear and at right rpm if the situation calls for sudden acceleration to avoid something.
2> as the bike is slowing down in gear, the bike remains well balanced giving the rider the best control under hard braking.

This is my experience with Unicorn (50000km) and FZ (35000 n counting).
Neither bikes have had any engine clutch drivetrain issue even as they continue to be used. Unicorn is used by my cousin which has now clocked roughly 65000.

So to all the skeptics of Engine braking, plz carry on the way u ride cos the smoothness of coming to halt using it can only be experienced to praise it

performance upgrade for fz16

my fz 16 is nearly 3 yrs old and clocked about 11.5K(was away for two years jus aftr i bought my bike) and i am thinking of changing the front and rear sprocket to 15/42 from its original 14/40...what will be the change in the topspeed ,acceleration nd the mileage...is changing both advisable...and do i need to modify the chain.....
and one more thing can anybody tell or direct me how to rejet my carb as i have fitted a K&N air filter...i have to do it myself cause i am not able to get any good mechanics in my town
am also planning to upgrade my exhaust to joel's FFE....waiting for his reply

15/42 is kinda pointless.go for 15/40 for better top speed and 14/42 for better low end.

upjetting.get Unicorns 115 Main jet.FZ stock is 112.5

thanq...will do that.......derz no need to tweak the air fuel ratio rite!..

hi guys,

I have been riding a pulsar 180 from the past 3 weeks as my fz was not with me.... When I rode my Fz today i could immeditaley feel the refinement and the difference in the positive side...

However, my accelerator felt a bit hard to when compared to the p180s one.... it also felt a bit jerky in inital gears and mid range rpm,....

my fz is around 2 years 5 months old done almost 21k km... havent changed any thing till now still running on my first set of everything except oila and air filters, rear tyre....

I am about to give it for servicing and want to know what all should i get changed and overhauled???

Kinshuk

Oh oh! ENGINE BRAKING (and braking in general)! A rather vast subject and big pot to stir!

First, to those gentlemen who were discussing, with profusion of references (that 99% do not bother to read! ), about the techniques of engine braking and pretending to do it in a scientific way, may I say that any discussion of that type should start by posing the conditions of the experiment.
So, if you don't mind my two cents....

Before going farther, and please do not see there any pretentious attitude, I would like to say that although I now ride a 153cc. Fazer (while nearing 70 y.o.), I have been riding various bikes for over 40 years, from my first "real" bike (a race tuned Honda "four" 750), to racing 125cc. two stroke Suzuki (I was not good: not crazy enough!), or easier 125 Honda twin, Norton Commando 750, Laverda 1,000cc., 1,200cc. Yamaha , 250 and 600cc Honda trail-bikes, or....baby Honda Dream and other Cubs and various other ones, this in Europe, Africa, and now SE Asia (essentially Vietnam where everybody is on two wheels....and ride very dangerously!). If I had to remind myself the number of times I had to "panic" brake, I think I would not ride anymore !

However, there is a big difference between race, off-road, city, and various road conditions, so, as I said the "conditions of the experiment" should be posed first, may we distinguish essentially racing, road, and off-road, and on FZ or "big cube".

Racing: This is where engine braking does not exist, at the exception (apparently...) of the modern racing superbikes, of which I have no experience, but that seem to use some of their formidable engine braking power instead of the rear brake, but anyway gently and without shifting gear.
There is, normally, no panic braking there, as one is under such stress and concentration that even an abnormal event in front of you is felt as "normal". We brake at the very last fraction of a second, 90% on the front of course, but also a bit on the rear, not only to "feel" the braking but also "sit" the bike while we are actually still braking (slowly releasing) while entering a corner so that the bike is already down on it's suspension. Fraction of second before braking was wide open throttle, then braking NOT suddenly but allowing the bike to press down it's weight (and weight transfer) down onto the track, and in downshifting very quickly and all in one de-clutch to the gear we shall need once in the corner where we shall already give some power, and will gradually wide open at the end of the curve. Engaging back the clutch is done (rather) slowly as the tyres are already so close to the limit of adherence that any brutality would make them loose grip.
This means that NO engine braking has been used, none at all. And this is how you should do "sporty" ride on the road.
Then another distinction: if a bike like the FZs, with it's fat rear tyre but baby 153cc. low compression engine will not do much when engaging the clutch while throttle closed, please believe that it is another very different thing on a high compression 1,000cc.! Just like when accelerating, you have to be very wary of what THAT engine will transmit to the road!

Road "cruise": Unlike on a track, we encounter steep roads, often deteriorated (in India just like in Vietnam), absolutely in-predictable very sudden events (cows, dogs, crazy lady on bicycle popping out of a 50cm. wide gap in dense bushes along the road, drunkards, overloaded trucks and buses taking over on narrow roads, etc.....), lots of conditions that surprise us while we just wanted to have a nice cool cruise with wife on the pillion. That is where a very quick zig-zag to avoid the danger OR a sudden braking will help not being hurt - or worse! Braking and fast zig-zag at the same time is happily not what our reflexes makes us do. But please do not tell me you will take the time to carefully downshift gears when that happens! Not even take the fraction of a second necessary to "sit" down the bike and press down the tyres. Sometimes, and that can happen to all of us in extreme "panic": we would even stall the engine! What we do then most of the time is to de-clutch once the speed has slowed down, and good that we do so because, as said earlier in racing conditions, any sudden "burst of load" on a tyre already at the limit - or over! - of it's adherence will only start a skid. So: NO engine braking here either.
Happily, though, we are not facing life threatening event all the time, but only adjust our sped to what we feel good. To do that, do we use the brakes? Not very much, but just open more or less the throttle, occasionally braking mildly, using both front and a bit of rear brake, and while doing that changing gear in order to keep our revs to what is our riding style. Personally, it is rarely below 5,000rpm. and I must say that, even with a small engine like ours, this adjustment of the gear, while keeping medium-high revs, does provide some quite good engine braking - I mean adjusting our speed just by closing/ opening the throttle and by clutching on after shifting gear down. Does that mean we have used the engine braking capability much in order to strongly slow down the bike? Not much, but a bit.
I a city, where speed varies even much more, we use engine braking even more, but always gently. However, when arriving fast to a red traffic light in fifth (I am never in fifth in city...), we should NOT slow down the bike by shifting down gears and clutching on at very single one, even if rev. matching with throttle (unless just slowing down the bike gradually: this is not braking then)! We better throttle down to when revs are some 3 or 4,000 rpm (or higher if you want) and then shift down all the gears we want to make ready for the restart, all in one go, but have slowed down the bike essentially using your brakes. This will otherwise just wear down your clutch, for which repair means opening the engine block, change discs, gaskets, oil, and closing it back. Much better change brake pads. Anyway, all this should be gentle to both your engine, clutch, gearbox, brakes, etc.... The bigger your engine the more powerful initial engine braking you will have had the moment you throttle down.

Then comes the case of steep hills, up or down. There is a good old rule that should always be respected, that is to be in the same gear when going downhill as the gear you would have used for going uphill. Just as simple as that. Sometimes, however, the only engine braking with a small capacity engine is not able to slow down the bike enough, and brakes have to be used. That is where extreme care must be taken not to overheat the brakes, specially those dreadful drum brakes that can loose ALL their power if over-heated. A good practice is then to try short braking every-time before arriving to a bend where you will really need you already burning hot brakes. If you do not have the braking power anymore on this short braking, shift down quickly even if over-revving, make this your last urgent braking, and just STOP!!!

I must say something about high revs with throttle closed too: the depression in the intake can be such that it will suck engine oil from the intake valve, passing the valve seals, and carbonizing valves, combustion chamber, spark plug, piston, and rings. Not too good.

Off-road: This is a wholly different figure.
Just like on oily, wet road, sand, gravel.....the rear brake, and engine braking become what you will mostly use. The off road bikes have very short first and second gears, and anyway very "closed" gears, often six gears from zero to a usual 80kmh. top speed. In those conditions, not only do we open/ close throttle all the time but also shift gear continuously. The engines, often big cube single cylinder or V-twins, have a lot of torque but also very good engine braking.
It is essential in bad off-road condition to keep your front wheel directional (provided it touches the ground!) and locking it is absolutely prohibited at it will instantly result in you laying in the mud. It is the fat rear wheel that does all the job, and this is also how you must drive with a normal road bike when the conditions deteriorate: always be on the appropriate gear to give not only high torque instant response, but best engine braking, together with careful use of the rear brake and almost nothing on the front one. The worst conditions maybe on narrow dirt tracks, varying from bare rock (very slippery!) to deep mud...or pieces of wood rolling under your wheel like in the picture I found interesting to attach (picture does not show that it was a very steep slope down, with a very fragile wooden bridge right ahead: better slow down in time!). And there is worse....!


All this, gentlemen, to say that each condition will need a different behavior, and I shall add another recommendation: train yourself! Do practice extreme braking, braking on bad roads and tracks, as well as cornering of course, so that, when the day comes you don't have the time to think, your trained reflexes will be there and save your life. Practice, practice, and practice, and you will find your truth!!!!