Announcement

**kusmaker** · 09-01-2014, 10:54 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by Akkiben View Post

Hi Everyone,

My friend's IND-SUZUKI AX100 was left unused for many years, finally got the chance to get itself restored.

Its now with me and i doing all the dismantling and rebuild but stuck with a problem bolt, not sure whether i would be needing to use a stronger tool.
Its the engine bolts on the frame that seem stuck maybe due to all the years of idle storage. I did spray WD-40 on the bolt and nut and left over night but to no avail.

The pic of the bike with the problem bolts circled in red.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]154978[/ATTACH]

Yeah some of these little chaps don't want to leave there place you can heat them and then with a tap of hammer bolts will come off easily.

**Akkiben** · 09-02-2014, 12:44 AM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post

Are you using regular spanner ?
Try a socket and 1/2" handle with a hollow pipe as an extension to increase leverage(as a cheater bar).
The engine bolts are usually very tight.

Good luck with the restoration.
Keep us updated, doesn't matter even if it doesn't belong to this thread.

Im using a T- Shaped plug spanner but it needs leverage like you suggested, will surely try giving it an extension using the worn out inner tube of my CD100's front suspension.
I have now put some oil on the bolt/nut for lubrication and will try wrenching it out tomorrow.
Sorry for violating the thread by bringing in a 2-Stroke query, will use a different thread next time onwards.

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by kusmaker View Post

Yeah some of these little chaps don't want to leave there place you can heat them and then with a tap of hammer bolts will come off easily.

Will i be needing some kind of gas welding heating rod for heating it?, shoeb2015 suggested the use of increased leverage which i will try tomorrow.

**jeswin** · 09-02-2014, 01:07 AM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by sibun View Post

[ATTACH=CONFIG]154856[/ATTACH]

Ah!! finally

. You see i am affected by a disease called "speedometer-o-mania"!!. When ever i see a new car or bike, the first observation i do is to look at the meter console. In the night time, more curious.

. and please dont ask the reason for that. Hopefully many of us are affected by this, i guess

**shoeb2015** · 09-02-2014, 08:56 AM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by Akkiben View Post

Sorry for violating the thread by bringing in a 2-Stroke query, will use a different thread next time onwards.

Arey baba, what I meant to say is- that you can use this thread to update about the restoration.

**sibun** · 09-02-2014, 10:20 AM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by kusmaker View Post

Absolutely true we humans are the only sore of this planet we should be wiped out completely from this planet only then this beautiful globe will survive(like in the movie "The Day The Earth Stood Still") ,So you are also like me, same case with me every dog or cow becomes friend of mine very soon, one day i was feeding 10 stray dogs in a nearby market one passerby commented that i should be alert while feeding them or they can bite me, i said that only humans bite me and not dogs.

The plug looks like the manual of the bike prescribes, you must be getting very good mileage and your bike engine must be running like butter.Splendid man.

Ya the most selfish creature is human being and nobody else. A animal be it dog or even tiger will always remember your gratitude towards it till it dies. Even after many years they can recognise you. And they will never ham you till they die. But humans they will and definitely harm the person from whom they have taken help.

Ya the plug is textbook crisp. Oh! mileage has never been a problem in my Joy. Also smoothness, even when it was with a worn out crank will give complexion to new bikes in smoothness.

Originally posted by Akkiben View Post

Hi Everyone,

My friend's IND-SUZUKI AX100 was left unused for many years, finally got the chance to get itself restored.

Its now with me and i doing all the dismantling and rebuild but stuck with a problem bolt, not sure whether i would be needing to use a stronger tool.
Its the engine bolts on the frame that seem stuck maybe due to all the years of idle storage. I did spray WD-40 on the bolt and nut and left over night but to no avail.

The pic of the bike with the problem bolts circled in red.

Instead of trying all tricks, i will give a simple and easy trick. What you do is tap the bolt hard with a flat punch and hammer so that rust build on thread breaks off. Then what you can do is instead of opening, just tighten it slightly. Then open and it will open in a jiffy.

Originally posted by jeswin View Post

Ah!! finally

. You see i am affected by a disease called "speedometer-o-mania"!!. When ever i see a new car or bike, the first observation i do is to look at the meter console. In the night time, more curious.

. and please dont ask the reason for that. Hopefully many of us are affected by this, i guess

Thats all we have been affected from childhood. But with advent of digital speedo that habit is slowly dying.

**Akkiben** · 09-02-2014, 09:43 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by shoeb2015 View Post

Arey baba, what I meant to say is- that you can use this thread to update about the restoration.

Heheheh Just got confused there. Btw i tried the leverage trick this morning and it came of so easily.

Now i am going to start cleaning up all the gunk thats accumulated there since years. Will keep all of you guys updated on this restoration.

**kusmaker** · 09-02-2014, 10:55 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Atlast , although the trick described by Sibun is fantastic and correct, so what's the next phase, powder coat, paint etc.

**Akkiben** · 09-05-2014, 03:31 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by kusmaker View Post

Atlast , although the trick described by Sibun is fantastic and correct, so what's the next phase, powder coat, paint etc.

Good question there kusmaker, however i don't think i will focus on the aesthetics as of now as i have two other 2-strokes(RX135s 4 & 5 Speeds) dying to be restored.
I will surely restore the IND-SUZUKI AX100 to stock requirements, not a factory rollout kind though.

I will first get all the core mechanical parts up and running.

I am in search of the OE 3-petal reed valve which is quite hard to come by.

**kusmaker** · 09-05-2014, 04:08 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by Akkiben View Post

Good question there kusmaker, however i don't think i will focus on the aesthetics as of now as i have two other 2-strokes(RX135s 4 & 5 Speeds) dying to be restored.
I will surely restore the IND-SUZUKI AX100 to stock requirements, not a factory rollout kind though.

I will first get all the core mechanical parts up and running.

I am in search of the OE 3-petal reed valve which is quite hard to come by.

Hmm you seems to be a restoration guy, a 2strokes fan,i have also got one Rx-100, so two more 2strokes for restoration and that too Rx's i will be glued to this thread now, just keep us informed whenever you start work on the Rxss, and keep posting snaps and other details of your current rebuild,are you still getting mechanical parts for suzukis, have a nice time rebuilding these beautiful and simple machines.

**jeswin** · 09-06-2014, 11:38 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

I have a doubt. It may be slightly off-topic, but please bear with me.

Usually for leh-ladakh rides, fuel injected bikes are preferred and liked. I searched in the web about this and let me share what answers i got.

In FI bikes, the fuel injector senses the external temperature, amount of oxygen provided in the atmosphere, (as the altitude increases, the amount of oxygen decreases. Right?), pressure etc and it behaves perfectly according to the situation or requirements automatically.

In bikes which have carburetors, they are suffering from breathing problem, i e, since the air and fuel are mixed manually. The bike feels power loss, it does not pull, feels like out of petrol. (these are the symptoms which i have read and learnt from those travelogues)

So, if i ride to leh in my passion pro (already passion plus, 1988 model cd100, platina 100 have done it

) and if i do not know to adjust the AFR, wont i be able to ride there? Will my bike suffer from that breathing problem?
I have been thinking the answer for this question for the last 1.5 years!! but could not find any. I could have asked here. But some serious discussions are going on, so did not want to mess up, and now i have asked!
Whether my questions and the guessings made by me are correct? and please correct me where i am wrong. I am not going to give up on you people

**s1d** · 09-07-2014, 11:07 AM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by jeswin View Post

I have a doubt. It may be slightly off-topic, but please bear with me.

Usually for leh-ladakh rides, fuel injected bikes are preferred and liked. I searched in the web about this and let me share what answers i got.

In FI bikes, the fuel injector senses the external temperature, amount of oxygen provided in the atmosphere, (as the altitude increases, the amount of oxygen decreases. Right?), pressure etc and it behaves perfectly according to the situation or requirements automatically.

In bikes which have carburetors, they are suffering from breathing problem, i e, since the air and fuel are mixed manually. The bike feels power loss, it does not pull, feels like out of petrol. (these are the symptoms which i have read and learnt from those travelogues)

So, if i ride to leh in my passion pro (already passion plus, 1988 model cd100, platina 100 have done it

) and if i do not know to adjust the AFR, wont i be able to ride there? Will my bike suffer from that breathing problem?
I have been thinking the answer for this question for the last 1.5 years!! but could not find any. I could have asked here. But some serious discussions are going on, so did not want to mess up, and now i have asked!
Whether my questions and the guessings made by me are correct? and please correct me where i am wrong. I am not going to give up on you people

If that happens, in an emergency you can try and ride with the air filter removed which would reduce the missing/out of breath problem to an extent. And then there is a juggad, where they put in a thin strand of wire thru the jet in the carb so that the amount of fuel is reduced to compensate for low levels of O2. Only someone who has done it on a similar bike can tell you if this issue will crop up on a passion.

**RohIIT** · 09-08-2014, 01:30 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Ok lets start from scratch, engine needs 3 things to run properly
1.Air
2.Fuel
3.Ignition

If any of the three gets affected bike wont run or run poorly.
AFR stands for Air-Fuel Ratio . It is altered using air screw provided in carb , it adjusts amount of air for one part of fuel
The correct stoichiometric ratio is 15:1 means 15 part of air is required to burn 1 part of fuel.

Why does carburetted bikes stuggle at high altitudes ?

Our bikes (hero) come with bigger jets than required which gives us phenomenal top end, 105 on passion/joy/splendor and 128 in xtreme
even Karizma R had 125 jet , so it is easy to breach 100kmph mark for splendor , sibun's joy crosses 110 best example.

We tune the mix at a certian height from sea level,say 200ft above MSL . when we go to leh it is much higher than 200ft from MSL
There oxygen is less hence bikes struggles to keep running. s1d said to correctly to reduce jet size but wire method isnt reliable
and will surely damage jet , and from where would one find a wire in tour to leh

So we have a option of using a smaller jet like 96 or 98 and retune mix to compensate for power loss. Xtreme can run a Uni jet
i think it has 118 or 119 which will be helpful in high altitude condition.

Why doesnt FI struggle there ?

FI depends on ECU and sensors , sensors detect amount of air flow and O2 in exhaust and various other parameters.
E.g if a bike is running lean , O2 sensor will pick up that in exhaust and richen mix accordingly.

FI never requires tuning as it is made to adapt . In high altitude condtition it will automatically know air volume is less
therefore reduce the fuel quantity . This is done by ECU , So in short FI bikes doesnt require any AFR tuning they are made to run
perfect AFR always in any condition .

If you get a chance see spark plug of FI bike and compare it to sibun and shoeb's plug you will find they look identical
It is possible to tune carb (slide) to perform like FI , and believe me i have felt it , throttle response of my xtreme was much sharper after tuning.

Hope it clears you query

**s1d** · 09-08-2014, 04:22 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by RohIIT View Post

AFR stands for Air-Fuel Ratio . It is altered using air screw provided in carb , it adjusts amount of air for one part of fuel
The correct stoichiometric ratio is 15:1 means 15 part of air is required to burn 1 part of fuel.

14.7:1 to be precise

And remember these 4 strokes have a fuel screw and it adjusts the amount of fuel. Two strokes like the rx100 have a air screw.
anticlockwise fuel screw = more fuel i.e. richer mix and vice versa
anticlockwise air screw = more air i.e. leaner mix and vice versa

We tune the mix at a certian height from sea level,say 200ft above MSL . when we go to leh it is much higher than 200ft from MSL
There oxygen is less hence bikes struggles to keep running. s1d said to correctly to reduce jet size but wire method isnt reliable
and will surely damage jet , and from where would one find a wire in tour to leh

You will damage the jet only if you force a thicker wire and keep probing it (like trying to clean a jet) - and a strand of wire is not a very heavy piece of equipment to carry, buying different size of jets might be more of a hassle compared to carrying a tiny piece of wire, because you do not know for sure if your bike will need it. So if necessary just put in the wire, and remove it once you are at a relatively lower altitude.

It is possible to tune carb (slide) to perform like FI , and believe me i have felt it , throttle response of my xtreme was much sharper after tuning.
Seriously ? How does it manage the fueling ?

Replies in bold..

**RohIIT** · 09-08-2014, 04:52 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

1. You are correct about 4 strokes having fuel and 2 strokers having air but it actually depends on the type of carb which has been fitted . Splendor being a 4 stroke still has a airscrew .

2. Agreed . but still forcing a strand of wire in jet seems bit rough on it . Again its a matter of personal choice . i prefer different jet size as opposed to wire technique .

3. To perform like FI means perform at same altitude . After i tuned afr on my xtreme not only i got better FE but i did a top end of 119Kmph. Company tuned carb doesnt mean perfect AFR . Fuel economy was now more than 50kmpl always unless i go mad on throttle. FI runs perfect AFR using sensors , But it is true that if carb is tuned properly it can be as perfect as FI in terms or performance and economy , but this is not a child play it requires high amount of experience , just 1/8 of turn can result in lean or rich mix. This thing is applicable for same altitude conditions , game changes at high altitudes where FI always has upper hand.

**kusmaker** · 09-08-2014, 05:28 PM

Re: Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Originally posted by RohIIT View Post

1. You are correct about 4 strokes having fuel and 2 strokers having air but it actually depends on the type of carb which has been fitted . Splendor being a 4 stroke still has a airscrew .

2. Agreed . but still forcing a strand of wire in jet seems bit rough on it . Again its a matter of personal choice . i prefer different jet size as opposed to wire technique .

3. To perform like FI means perform at same altitude . After i tuned afr on my xtreme not only i got better FE but i did a top end of 119Kmph. Company tuned carb doesnt mean perfect AFR . Fuel economy was now more than 50kmpl always unless i go mad on throttle. FI runs perfect AFR using sensors , But it is true that if carb is tuned properly it can be as perfect as FI in terms or performance and economy , but this is not a child play it requires high amount of experience , just 1/8 of turn can result in lean or rich mix. This thing is applicable for same altitude conditions , game changes at high altitudes where FI always has upper hand.

On your 1 point that splendor is still having air screw, why is it so as all of the 4strokes have fuel screw.

Announcement

Hero Moto Splendor/Joy/CD-Dawn/Passion

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment