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**psr** · 05-01-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by acs1207 View Post

Every machinery is only as good as the care you give it .

One Word Says it all.....
How is your 235cc ZMA now...hope it is giving you the happiness and sense of achievement which is due to you.

@All .....here is the picture of the Ceat Gripp tire of 3.00 18 size.

**ryan.virgo** · 05-01-2012, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by psr View Post

Why did the mechanic remove the drain tube...if the routing is done properly,then there will be no kinks and blocks...with the tube disconnected, water will now drip over the Air Filter box outer ,on the chasiss and onto the ground....

Ohh hell, if thats the case then I will take to the service centre tomorrow and get it routed properly.

**acs1207** · 05-01-2012, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by psr View Post

One Word Says it all.....
How is your 235cc ZMA now...hope it is giving you the happiness and sense of achievement which is due to you.

Thanx for asking sir . It's doing just great . 350+ kms completed . Have to change the oil now .I intend to change the oil again @ 800 - 1000 kms . I'm planning on 10W30 for the change now and 10W40 for the next change . Is it OK ?
BTW yesterday I had to ride @ 3-5 kmph (below 1.5k rpm) for nearly 2 kms . The engine heat was getting to my legs and the smell of highly heated engine was there . But the engine didn't stall or anything . Is that situation (heat+smell) typical or is it because of the fresh bore+piston?

Another thing - when I move in 1st gear if I don't give above normal throttle the engine sometimes dies . I think it could be because of lean mixture and if so my modified Zen MPFI filter might have something to do with it . Have to move to 4 turns again ( am @ 3.75 turns now) and check it .

Originally posted by ryan.virgo View Post

Ohh hell, if thats the case then I will take to the service centre tomorrow and get it routed properly.

Just check that it's not clogged by blowing through it .

**psr** · 05-01-2012, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by acs1207 View Post

Thanx for asking sir . It's doing just great . 350+ kms completed . Have to change the oil now .I intend to change the oil again @ 800 - 1000 kms . I'm planning on 10W30 for the change now and 10W40 for the next change . Is it OK ?
BTW yesterday I had to ride @ 3-5 kmph (below 1.5k rpm) for nearly 2 kms . The engine heat was getting to my legs and the smell of highly heated engine was there . But the engine didn't stall or anything . Is that situation (heat+smell) typical or is it because of the fresh bore+piston?

Another thing - when I move in 1st gear if I don't give above normal throttle the engine sometimes dies . I think it could be because of lean mixture and if so my modified Zen MPFI filter might have something to do with it . Have to move to 4 turns again ( am @ 3.75 turns now) and check it .

Happy to note you and your 235cc ZMA are doing well
A new bore with rough cylinder walls will produce heat due to friction...remember when you had the new bike and how it used to heat up ?...A tight non set bore and piston has more friction so will develop heat and will also switch off at lower RPMs....if you set your idle when hot, to 1,400~ 1,500 RPM then you may not face engine switch off problem.
Till the engine is set better to go with 4 full turns anticlockwise for the AFR.
Changing to 10w40 next is a good idea and will reduce the heating and little roughness in engine.

**acs1207** · 05-01-2012, 09:04 PM

Why ZMA is not as powerful as P220

A lot of time s I've met questions asking why ZMA is not as powerful as the P220 even though the ZMA's engine is bigger ( by 3 cc) . The answer is simple . The P220 makes more revs per minute and as a result burns more air than the ZMA .

The increase in power is almost equal to the increase in air drawn in per minute. Since the ZMA is a low rpm bike it takes in lesser air and gives out lesser power than the 220 ( and pollutes the air lesser - if you want a consolation

).
edit: the ZMA is also heavier than the P220
The 2nd and 3rd columns are bore and stroke .

**ashwinprakas** · 05-01-2012, 11:38 PM

^^^^
The ZMA was still the fastest even after the P220 FI came about, but when the Carb version came out, everything changed. The Fi version also had the same stroke x bore as the Carb version.

Meaning if we can do somethin to the intake, then the ZMA would be able to kick the P220 Carb's ass too.

Anyways back to reality, lowered my AFR to 3 turns from the previous 4 turns. Bike seems to have a medium knocking while accelerating hard, but I guess thats supposed to be there, after all its a carb bike. The difference as everyone knows, the bike accelerates faster, nothing more noted till now, will be taking bike to college tomorrow and will post the complete feedback.

Speedo cable (Inner) not available at SVC, so will be running without it for sometime.

**psr** · 05-02-2012, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by acs1207 View Post

A lot of time s I've met questions asking why ZMA is not as powerful as the P220 even though the ZMA's engine is bigger ( by 3 cc) . The answer is simple . The P220 makes more revs per minute and as a result burns more air than the ZMA .
The increase in power is almost equal to the increase in air drawn in per minute. Since the ZMA is a low rpm bike it takes in lesser air and gives out lesser power than the 220 ( and pollutes the air lesser - if you want a consolation

).
.

The Pulsar is 220cc and ZMA is 223 cc.
At 100 % volumetric efficiency the respective engine can only breathe as much as the bore size...unless of course there is forced induction.The power difference comes from Compression Ratio, Ignition timing, Valve timing,and valve duration etc....

**prashk** · 05-02-2012, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by psr View Post

The Pulsar is 220cc and ZMA is 223 cc.
At 100 % volumetric efficiency the respective engine can only breathe as much as the bore size...unless of course there is forced induction.The power difference comes from Compression Ratio, Ignition timing, Valve timing,and valve duration etc....

And maybe 0.5-1bhp atleast due to a better exhaust system? Referring to the torque expansion chamber or ExhausTec here. No idea about the power/torque gain percentage, but since Bajaj patented the technology and also includes it in product marketing, I guess they have put some work on building a better exhaust. I wonder if Hero ever did anything performance-centric with the exhaust systems of ZMA-R or ZMRs. But anyway, I am happy with my ZMA-Rs exhaust note (maybe due to a busted catcon

)

**acs1207** · 05-02-2012, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

^^^^
The ZMA was still the fastest even after the P220 FI came about, but when the Carb version came out, everything changed. The Fi version also had the same stroke x bore as the Carb version.

Meaning if we can do somethin to the intake, then the ZMA would be able to kick the P220 Carb's ass too.

Anyways back to reality, lowered my AFR to 3 turns from the previous 4 turns. Bike seems to have a medium knocking while accelerating hard, but I guess thats supposed to be there, after all its a carb bike. The difference as everyone knows, the bike accelerates faster, nothing more noted till now, will be taking bike to college tomorrow and will post the complete feedback.

Speedo cable (Inner) not available at SVC, so will be running without it for sometime.

The low RPM would stunt whatever intake you give it . With higher volume plus revised sproket-ing it might be possible .

Originally posted by psr View Post

The Pulsar is 220cc and ZMA is 223 cc.
At 100 % volumetric efficiency the respective engine can only breathe as much as the bore size...unless of course there is forced induction.The power difference comes from Compression Ratio, Ignition timing, Valve timing,and valve duration etc....

Sir , are you testing or teasing ??

The volumetric efficiency/rpm ratio gives P220 the edge as per my calculation . At peak rpm , the ZMA's air intake is only 83% as that of the P220 . That much more air burning in the cylinder and the high revving capacity gives the P220 the edge . Of course all the other factors that you mentioned also comes into play .

But even with forced induction do you think we can increase top speed ? The pick-up will definitely go up but I think the rev-limiter will play spoil-sport with the top end .
In the ZMA it doesnt matter how much power u give it - the ability to convert that power into speed (as opposed to acceleration) isn't there as long as the final ratio is the same .

Just my thoughts - please correct me if I am wrong .

Originally posted by prashk View Post

And maybe 0.5-1bhp atleast due to a better exhaust system? Referring to the torque expansion chamber or ExhausTec here. No idea about the power/torque gain percentage, but since Bajaj patented the technology and also includes it in product marketing, I guess they have put some work on building a better exhaust. I wonder if Hero ever did anything performance-centric with the exhaust systems of ZMA-R or ZMRs. But anyway, I am happy with my ZMA-Rs exhaust note (maybe due to a busted catcon

)

The exhaust , DTSI etc plays it's part .

**ashwinprakas** · 05-02-2012, 09:54 PM

Ride report at 3 turns of the AFR.

Acceleration was awesome, did close to 8.5K on the RPM in final gear and that too with a pillion. But after the bike got abit warm, fire crackers started to pop, but for the time being ignored it and rode real hard, when we reached the college premises, I raised the AFR to 3.5 Turns, now on the way back, there wasnt any sign of misfiring, and the bike accelerated well too, only issue was the medium knocking when accelerating hard, but its a Carb bike after all, so will be riding like this from now on. Will post further reports on the way.

**psr** · 05-03-2012, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by acs1207 View Post

Sir , are you testing or teasing ??

The volumetric efficiency/rpm ratio gives P220 the edge as per my calculation . At peak rpm , the ZMA's air intake is only 83% as that of the P220 . That much more air burning in the cylinder and the high revving capacity gives the P220 the edge . Of course all the other factors that you mentioned also comes into play .

But even with forced induction do you think we can increase top speed ? The pick-up will definitely go up but I think the rev-limiter will play spoil-sport with the top end .
In the ZMA it doesnt matter how much power u give it - the ability to convert that power into speed (as opposed to acceleration) isn't there as long as the final ratio is the same .

Just my thoughts - please correct me if I am wrong .

The exhaust , DTSI etc plays it's part .

I am Neither teasing or testing but sharing my thought....
You had Calculated for both the bikes at two different RPMs...for comparison the parameters have to be alike. with a difference of 1,500 RPM between the two engine , there is bound to be drastic difference in the amount of Air and Fuel processed through the engines.

ZMA's rev limit is at 9,500 RPM, and at a ratio of 15 Kmph for 1,000 RPM the top speed ,when rev limiter kicks in is 142.5 Kmph..TRUE Speed. A NOS injected ZMA had touched this RPM limit in 5th gear.

A single cylinder higher performance bike like the KTM 200 and the soon to be launched Pulsar 200 NS, both of which are Lesser in cc but produce more HP than either ZMA or P220....and close to CBR 250 R.....

The CBR 250 R made in Thailand has more power than the one sold in India.So even with the same engine configuration and cc capacity power delivered can be different.

**acs1207** · 05-03-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

Ride report at 3 turns of the AFR.

Acceleration was awesome, did close to 8.5K on the RPM in final gear and that too with a pillion. But after the bike got abit warm, fire crackers started to pop, but for the time being ignored it and rode real hard, when we reached the college premises, I raised the AFR to 3.5 Turns, now on the way back, there wasnt any sign of misfiring, and the bike accelerated well too, only issue was the medium knocking when accelerating hard, but its a Carb bike after all, so will be riding like this from now on. Will post further reports on the way.

Knocking will be there when there is no initial rpm to support the power surge demanded . If the acceleration is linear then knocking will be less .

Originally posted by psr View Post

I am Neither teasing or testing but sharing my thought....
You had Calculated for both the bikes at two different RPMs...for comparison the parameters have to be alike. with a difference of 1,500 RPM between the two engine , there is bound to be drastic difference in the amount of Air and Fuel processed through the engines.

ZMA's rev limit is at 9,500 RPM, and at a ratio of 15 Kmph for 1,000 RPM the top speed ,when rev limiter kicks in is 142.5 Kmph..TRUE Speed. A NOS injected ZMA had touched this RPM limit in 5th gear.

A single cylinder higher performance bike like the KTM 200 and the soon to be launched Pulsar 200 NS, both of which are Lesser in cc but produce more HP than either ZMA or P220....and close to CBR 250 R.....

The CBR 250 R made in Thailand has more power than the one sold in India.So even with the same engine configuration and cc capacity power delivered can be different.

The rpm mentioned was the max power producing ones . ZMA @ 8500 rpm won't be giving out the maximum of 17 BHP .
Is there a 'software' rev limiter for the ZMA ? For the ZMA to be able to reach 9500 rpm in top gear something like I did to my ride is required .142.5 kmph in the OE set-up is not attainable . NOS is 'destructive' in the long run . For daily use it's not feasible .
As you said , parameters like compression ratio , timing , valve size/opening time/number etc are varied to get required results . Both the Duke and 200NS even though having more power , max out @ 136 kmph .
BTW is the power measured at the crank or at the rear wheel ( in Indian scenario )?
Due to quality

issues of fuel available , vehicles launched in India are de-tuned and made less powerful than their counterparts elsewhere . I guess you can see that even in cars .

**ashwinprakas** · 05-03-2012, 10:40 AM

^^^
At Crank.
The ZMA has 17ps @ Crank and 14ps @ Rear wheel.
The P220 has 21ps @ Crank and 18ps @ Rear wheel.

**SriramEfunds** · 05-03-2012, 06:26 PM

Got some NGK G power plugs for one of our active members. However, got few extra, if anyone wants let me know.

**ansum** · 05-03-2012, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post

^^^
At Crank.
The ZMA has 17ps @ Crank and 14ps @ Rear wheel.
The P220 has 21ps @ Crank and 18ps @ Rear wheel.

Is it the industry norm that the horsepower and torque specified for a motorcycle or car are the values available at crank and not at the driven wheel?

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