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**neal961** · 12-22-2013, 06:31 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by Avishek Mallick View Post

Thanks Traveller01 ,yes the grade will be that but kindly suggest a semi synthetic engine oil other than the TVS one.

Hello!! avishek the best oil i feel is shell AX7 , but not easily available in kolkata, you can check castrol power 1,almost equivalent, i am using it now.

**Avishek Mallick** · 12-22-2013, 11:21 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Thanks Neal.....but castrol power 1 is fully synthetic rite can i use it in my 1000 km run....??? :O

**prateek2210** · 12-23-2013, 01:40 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by prateek2210 View Post

My ........ check up)

Update :
Didn't try to start my bike on Saturday, but Sunday morning thought of using the self start. And it started

, although angel eyes are not working, headlight and horns are working though.

**neal961** · 12-23-2013, 09:18 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Avishek, castrol power 1 is semi synthetic, the fs one is castrol power 1 racing, but it is advised to use fs or ss after full seasoning ,(i.e after completing 5k-7k mark) till then stick to mineral oil..

**susheelkumar** · 12-23-2013, 11:30 AM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by Avishek Mallick View Post

Thanks Neal.....but castrol power 1 is fully synthetic rite can i use it in my 1000 km run....??? :O

Dont go for fully synthetic for atleast 10k in odo..
If you really want to change the TVS oil go for Shell AX7(10w40)..Now their price has increased. Previously it was 349, now its 369/-
Also when you are changing make sure you stick with 10wX grade..Anything above that might have cold start issues..
Also change your svc. there is no point sticking with them.
Its very very important to change oil filter especially in first service where there will be more debris.
Anyway good you changed it yourself.

Originally posted by prateek2210 View Post

Update :
Didn't try to start my bike on Saturday, but Sunday morning thought of using the self start. And it started

, although angel eyes are not working, headlight and horns are working though.

Seems like your bike is haunted.. Get it exorcised...

**raging_bull** · 12-23-2013, 12:48 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by susheelkumar View Post

Dont go for fully synthetic for atleast 10k in odo..

I have my doubts about this. This 10k rule might be true in the case of cars but the engine wear is a lot more in the case of a motorcycle.
I've read that it's good to move to synthetic oil a short while after the break in period. [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION]

**susheelkumar** · 12-23-2013, 01:01 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by raging_bull View Post

I have my doubts about this. This 10k rule might be true in the case of cars but the engine wear is a lot more in the case of a motorcycle.
I've read that it's good to move to synthetic oil a short while after the break in period. @psr

Well people here have mixed reviews about the same. Some suggest range to convert to fully synthetic at the range 7k~10k odo.
Anyway I have crossed 28k but still sticking with semi-synthetic. Happy with the performance so far with semi-synthetic.
I have also heard some brands of fully synthetic oils level, drops drastically & needs top-up and checking periodically especially if going for long rides.
Well I know fully synthetic oils are much smoother but I'm okay with the little bit of roughness.

Anyway I didn't find a valid reason to change to fully synthetic which is costlier than semi-synthetic grades.
Well for normal commuting & occasional trips I think semi-synthetic will serve the purpose.

Anyway I might be wrong.

Someone should confirm from their end on this whether its really good & safe to switch to fully synthetic oils in such a short time, even when the SVC people say to avoid the same. I also doubt it might void the warranty. But anyway there is no way the SVC guyz can identify which one you are using.

**psr** · 12-23-2013, 01:38 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by raging_bull View Post

I have my doubts about this. This 10k rule might be true in the case of cars but the engine wear is a lot more in the case of a motorcycle.
I've read that it's good to move to synthetic oil a short while after the break in period. @psr

There are different schools of thought on using FS soon after break in period or 1,000 Kms. A FS oil contains particles which are smaller compared to a SS or a mineral. So if there are gaps between the ring and the bore, it will escape through it and get burnt in the combustion chamber..leading to oil consumption and seizure if oil is not topped up in time. From what I had been reading of reports by fellow members , RTR and Pulsars do not do well with FS ie., consume oil..even a set bike had been known to do this...Honda and Yamaha engines seem to tolerate FS better..still I do not use SS or FS in my ZMA-R , and stick with mineral oil and change it every 1,800 Kms.
I feel changing fresh oil often gives better engine smoothness and life than retaining old oil , even if it is FS...may not be agreeable to many just my thought.

**raging_bull** · 12-23-2013, 01:48 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by susheelkumar View Post

Anyway I might be wrong.

Someone should confirm from their end on this whether its really good & safe to switch to fully synthetic oils in such a short time, even when the SVC people say to avoid the same. I also doubt it might void the warranty. But anyway there is no way the SVC guyz can identify which one you are using.

In the long run you will definitely benefit from the synthetics. I think the best method is to change mineral oil twice or thrice during the break in period and after that once you really start revving the engine hard, move to a fully synthetic oil and stick with it. I like the idea of using heavy duty engine oil. Have you tried it?

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

Originally posted by psr View Post

A FS oil contains particles which are smaller compared to a SS or a mineral. So if there are gaps between the ring and the bore, it will escape through it and get burnt in the combustion chamber..leading to oil consumption and seizure if oil is not topped up in time. From what I had been reading of reports by fellow members , RTR and Pulsars do not do well with FS ie., consume oil..even a set bike had been known to do this....

I have been told by some guys at the other bhp that this occurs when the change is made too late. I think most of the RTR and Pulsar owners changed it too late. As we know TVS and Bajaj engines are not that reliable and are more prone to wear. I think anything over 5k (or even less?) km on the odo is far too late for an Indian made motorcycle to use fully synthetic oil. What do you think?

**susheelkumar** · 12-23-2013, 03:39 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by raging_bull View Post

In the long run you will definitely benefit from the synthetics. I think the best method is to change mineral oil twice or thrice during the break in period and after that once you really start revving the engine hard, move to a fully synthetic oil and stick with it. I like the idea of using heavy duty engine oil. Have you tried it?

As I said for normal commuting and occasional trips we don't need any heavy duty engine oils unless you are thinking of ripping the engine like as if there is no tomorrow. Then as [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] mentioned each vehicle has its own tolerance-level and it performs well for certain attributes. The attributes which looks good for other vehicles doesn't guaranty the same in RTR. Then as you said its because the owners changed to FS oil after long gap doesn't seem a valid reason. Wear & tear is meant to happen as it goes. So maybe as you said, FS oils might help in the initial period but as time goes wear & tear happens and all the issues start popping out again. So regardless of when you use FS oil, the problem will come no matter what. So its always good to play safe. So a little bit of sacrifice in smoothness that you get by using FS oils will guarantee you better engine life.

**raging_bull** · 12-23-2013, 03:59 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by susheelkumar View Post

As I said for normal commuting and occasional trips we don't need any heavy duty engine oils unless you are thinking of ripping the engine like as if there is no tomorrow. Then as [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] mentioned each vehicle has its own tolerance-level and it performs well for certain attributes. The attributes which looks good for other vehicles doesn't guaranty the same in RTR. Then as you said its because the owners changed to FS oil after long gap doesn't seem a valid reason. Wear & tear is meant to happen as it goes. So maybe as you said, FS oils might help in the initial period but as time goes wear & tear happens and all the issues start popping out again. So regardless of when you use FS oil, the problem will come no matter what. So its always good to play safe. So a little bit of sacrifice in smoothness that you get by using FS oils will guarantee you better engine life.

Your assumption that synthetic oils are useful only when you rev hard is wrong

. And short, frequent trips cause more wear than one long trip. You definitely are doing a favour to the engine by using synthetic oil. It has been debated and proven umpteen number of times.

Oil leaks can occur if you use synthetic oil in an engine that has been running on mineral/other oil for a long time. In desi bikes, this period is short probably because 1)more engine wear 2)poor engineering

For longer engine life, use fully synthetic oil.

**prateek2210** · 12-23-2013, 04:09 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Originally posted by raging_bull View Post

Oil leaks can occur if you use synthetic oil in an engine that has been running on mineral oil for a long time. In desi bikes, this period is short probably because 1)more engine wear 2)poor engineering

In this way my and other xbhpians RTR have crossed 35k kms and we tried motul synthetic once. Still the level decreases in 2200kms of "city commuting". Does that mean RTR is poorly engineered, I wont agree to it.
If you check other forums you can easy check, everyone has mentioned gradual change of oil. Sticking to full synthetic is solely personal decision depending on whether the particular bike runs good on that oil or not.

@ALL : I guess we have had enough "engine oil" discuss on "ownership" thread. There is seperate thread for oills, I would request people to carry on over there.

**VinayakVerma** · 12-23-2013, 04:12 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

Hi shusheel can you pls tell me what things needed to kept in mind while changing clutch plates ? What should be changed and what not ?Mine bike is TVS APACHE 150

**susheelkumar** · 12-23-2013, 04:29 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

@VinayakVerma When changing make sure you change as a complete set.
I don't know the exact names of it. It will cost you 1000/- bucks.

kdrv.com

http://www.blogshippo.com/2012/07/TVS-Apache-RTR-160-180-Spare-parts-Price-List.html

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**psr** · 12-23-2013, 05:22 PM

Re: TVS Apache RTR 180

It is a known fact that FS oil is more stable and fine slippery oil compared to the same grade of Mineral oil.It is one of the reason that during an engine break in time, FS is not recommended,since it will not allow the engine parts to wear and seat with each other to give good mating of parts.
Apart from machining tolerance, the choice of material also plays an important role in selection of engine oil..So an engine oil selection is the culmination of many factors best known to the designer and manufacturer...
I use Diesel oil in my Karizma-R of a specific manufacturer ,grade, and spec,after going through the MSDS of the oil . Still it was an experiment, and I must say I was lucky to get the benefits of the Additive package in the oil, and the oil suited the engine well...A few other owners of ZMA/ZMR have tried the same with very good results, and so continue to use it....
It is always good to stick to what the Designer/Manufacturer recommends , and if you want to experiment....remember " Your experiment, Your Risk".

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